Can immersion only baptism survive close scrutiny?

[Waggles]

Dura-Europos Syria 100-200 AD bathtub with canopy for baptisms in Christian house

[Dead Orthodoxy]

19 minutes ago, Waggles said:

I do not know about that. That is not how I read the description of Paul being baptised.  - Acts 22:16 

(DRB)  And now why tarriest thou? Rise up and be baptized and wash away thy sins, invoking his name.
(ESV)  And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’
(KJV)  And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
(LITV)  And now what do you intend? Rising up, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
(NENT)  And what shall thou do now? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.
(RV)  And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name.
(WEB)  Now why do you wait? Arise, be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’
(Weymouth)  And now why delay? Rise, get yourself baptized, and wash off your sins, calling upon His name.'
(YLT)  and now, why tarriest thou? having risen, baptize thyself, and wash away thy sins, calling upon the name of the Lord.

My understanding is that Paul (who was blinded and fasting for three days prior) simply got up from his bed or his chair to get baptised in water where this could be done. 

Acts 9:17  So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 
9:18  And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he rose and was baptized; 

(Weymouth)  Instantly there dropped from his eyes what seemed to be scales, and he could see once more. Upon this he rose and received baptism;
(YLT)  And immediately there fell from his eyes as it were scales, he saw again also presently, and having risen, was baptized,

Reading theses verses again there is no obvious statement that Paul was baptised standing up - he merely got up from where he was lower down (bed?) and afterwards he got baptised in water. 

Throughout the Roman and Byzantine Empires there are numerous pools often with steps going down from either side, indicative of full immersion baptisms. The other notable archaeological style are oversized bath tubs, such as the one in Dura-Europos, Syria, 2nd century. 

Theoretical testing of the plain text rule.   Supposing I were to place an ad on Craigslist asking for thirty known atheists to interpret Acts 9:18 and each would receive $100.   An explanation would be given on the various modes of baptism used historically (immersion, sprinkling, pouring).  Then I would give a visual example of each mode.  After reading the whole chapter nine, they then would try to determine what mode was used in 9:18.  The result would be inconclusive, but they would certainly rule out immersion.     The same  would be about Acts 22.  Thirty atheists would agree that Paul was not immersed.   What is so hard about understanding this?  Please give a clear reason why immersion baptism is employed here. Have you ever heard of confirmation bias?

[Waggles]

9 minutes ago, Dead Orthodoxy said:

 Please give a clear reason why immersion baptism is employed here.

Have you ever heard of confirmation bias?

yes 

history and scriptures give us the methodology - baptism by full immersion - death, burial and resurrection with Christ 

that is how I read it and Christians have been dunking converts under since year dot. 

Each to their own. I am happy and content to have been submerged in a large bathtub and come up. Works for me. 

[Dead Orthodoxy]

From the standpoint of Scripture, I don't see God is any more pleased with any mode of baptism, whether it be immersion, sprinkling, or pouring.  Although some modes are more pleasing to certain Christians than others.

Christians should unite in the commonality of the modes....God's true name place upon you by another Christian in baptism.

For without God's true name placed upon you, all modes whether it immersion, sprinkling, or pouring is NO BAPTISM.  It is just water.

[Waggles]

18 hours ago, Dead Orthodoxy said:

For without God's true name placed upon you,

OK then; what is this all about??? 

[Dead Orthodoxy]

10 hours ago, Waggles said:

OK then; what is this all about??? 

Baptism in the NT contains the earthly element water & the Triune Formula.  Jesus commands us to baptize “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” in the Great Commission.   The only place Scripture commands His church to use the Triune Formula is in Baptism.  This unique command from Jesus serves as a marker for his Church on how Baptism is to be administered.  

To ensure this command is carried out within the Church God has established a particular office within the Church to preach the Word and administer baptism.  A person is selected with the criteria Paul laid out and administers baptism on behalf the entire local congregation. Baptism is always applied to a person passively…meaning you don’t baptize yourself. Another Christian baptizes you.  The appointed pastor or minister knows this command of Jesus as performs baptism accordingly.

Being baptized in the “name of the F, S, and HS" all massive implications within NT theology.  And tomes have been written on his issue.  But that is beyond my level.

But what I will say, is the Triune formula has been historically used to distinguish between a valid baptism from an invalid one.  But that may or may not be apart of a later post.

[Your closest friendnt]

28 minutes ago, Dead Orthodoxy said:

Baptism in the NT contains the earthly element water & the Triune Formula.  Jesus commands us to baptize “in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit” in the Great Commission.   The only place Scripture commands His church to use the Triune Formula is in Baptism.  This unique command from Jesus serves as a marker for his Church on how Baptism is to be administered.  

To ensure this command is carried out within the Church God has established a particular office within the Church to preach the Word and administer baptism.  A person is selected with the criteria Paul laid out and administers baptism on behalf the entire local congregation. Baptism is always applied to a person passively…meaning you don’t baptize yourself. Another Christian baptizes you.  The appointed pastor or minister knows this command of Jesus as performs baptism accordingly.

Being baptized in the “name of the F, S, and HS" all massive implications within NT theology.  And tomes have been written on his issue.  But that is beyond my level.

But what I will say, is the Triune formula has been historically used to distinguish between a valid baptism from an invalid one.  But that may or may not be apart of a later post.

It is not quite agreeable with the facts in the NT.

I did not say agreeable to me, because I am not a pastor in a church that has put the prerequisites to be accepted as a member in his church. But this is not what is discussed here.

First in the bible we have the instructions to baptize in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit given to the disciples by Jesus Christ. 

Reading the instruction carefully it does not include "for the forgiveness of sins".

This is the question; Why Peter who was present when this instructions were given by Jesus Christ he did not do that in Acts on the day of Penticost to baptize those who had believed with water in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit or did he? 

Why Peter said: repent and be baptized each one of you in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins? 

Noting one more thing Jesus Christ did not tell them to asked them to repent like Peter said in Acts.

He only said those who have believe to baptized them in the name of the F S and HS and why.

He did not say how to do the Baptism. 

Did the disciples baptized three thousand people on that day in the way by immersion. 

How many ways the J had in doing baptism. Did they had more than one and each one for a different propose? 

Did Peter obeyd Jesus Christ to baptize them in the Name of the F the  S and the HS ?

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Starise]

I would tend to agree the Bible supports a "close scrutiny of baptism by immersion" if close scrutiny means to investigate how it was done. I don't think there is any doubt.

If certain persons want to go off in other directions, I believe they need to infer things that aren't expressly there. I don't believe it takes much of an effort to scrutinize the subject to see what it means. A basic read of the texts along with a fairly simple definition of the word baptism makes the point just fine.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Starise

[Waggles]

Acts 2:36  Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” 
37  Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 
38  And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 
39  For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 
40  And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 
41  So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

[Waggles]

Acts 8:4  Now those who were scattered went about preaching the word. 
8:5  Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ. 
8:6  And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip, when they heard him and saw the signs that he did. 
8:7  For unclean spirits, crying out with a loud voice, came out of many who had them, and many who were paralyzed or lame were healed. 
8:8  So there was much joy in that city. 
8:9  But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. 
8:10  They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the power of God that is called Great.” 
8:11  And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. 
8:12  But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 
8:13  Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. 
8:14  Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 
8:15  who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 
8:16  for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 
8:17  Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.