There are words I have never heard in the bible

[Sparks]

12 minutes ago, David1701 said:

I said nothing about choosing anyone for hell.  Election is to salvation, not hell.

With this logic, those not chosen will go to hell.  They call it double-predesintation. 

I have already pointed out that there was a prior time when the world was Israel's enemy, but we exist in a New Covenant now, in which salvation is offered to all. 

Notice in John 3:16 (NIV), it clearly says WHOEVER believes.  That's a choice anyone can make. 

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[David1701]

1 hour ago, Sparks said:

I know that's your opinion, but I am just waiting for you to back it with scripture.

Matt. 5:27,28 (KJV)

 27  ¶Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 
  28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 

Matt. 15:7,8 (KJV)

7  Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 
  8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 

John 7:24 (KJV) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. 

1 Sam. 16:7 (KJV) But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

As you can see, the Lord looks at the heart, not merely the outward appearance.  Sin is primarily a matter of the heart and sinful desires or motives do not even need outward actions, to be sinful.

[Ozarkbound]

20 minutes ago, popsthebuilder said:

That is calvinistic and makes GOD out as evil.

Also not too biblical as it is the will of GOD that all be reconciled.

I'll take Christ's words over yours.

[Sparks]

5 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Matt. 5:27,28 (KJV)

 27  ¶Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 
  28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 

Matt. 15:7,8 (KJV)

7  Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 
  8  This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 

John 7:24 (KJV) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. 

1 Sam. 16:7 (KJV) But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

As you can see, the Lord looks at the heart, not merely the outward appearance.  Sin is primarily a matter of the heart and sinful desires or motives do not even need outward actions, to be sinful.

I guess I disagree.  I don't see where the sin meter is running in those scriptures.  You are using negative inference, here.  Not direct scripture.

Direct scripture would say "While you eat cereal, I consider you sinning."  Or something close.

It's true that God can see our heart, and even the number of your hairs, but that does not mean He keeps the meter running.

 

[David1701]

12 minutes ago, Sparks said:

With this logic, those not chosen will go to hell.  They call it double-predesintation.

No, "they" don't; they call it "single predestination".  Double predestination is the teaching that God has actively predestined not only the elect to be saved, but also the non-elect to be damned; whereas, in single predestination, only the elect are actively predestined, the rest are passed over and left in their default condition.

Quote

I have already pointed out that there was a prior time when the world was Israel's enemy, but we exist in a New Covenant now, in which salvation is offered to all. 

What relevance does this have for our conversation?

Quote

Notice in John 3:16 (NIV), it clearly says WHOEVER believes.  That's a choice anyone can make. 

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Perhaps you have some special glasses, because I can't see any mention of, "That's a choice anyone can make.", in this verse.

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by David1701
typo

[David1701]

2 minutes ago, Sparks said:

I guess I disagree.  I don't see where the sin meter is running in those scriptures.  You are using negative inference, here.  Not direct scripture.

Direct scripture would say "While you eat cereal, I consider you sinning."  Or something close.

It's true that God can see our heart, and even the number of your hairs, but that does not mean He keeps the meter running.

 

God sees the heart, as you have admitted - the heart of unrelenting unbelief, lack of love, idolatry, etc., in the unbeliever.

[Sparks]

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

No, "they" don't; they call it "single predestination".  Double predestination is the teaching that God has actively predestined not only the elect to be saved, but also the non-elect to be damned; whereas, in single predestination, on the elect are actively predestined, the rest are passed over and left in their default condition.

Yes, so what happens to the people who are not the elect in your theory?

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

What relevance does this have for our conversation?

It shows the context of your argument is from a prior covenant.  Jesus changed everything.

3 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Perhaps you have some special glasses, because I can't see any mention of, "That's a choice anyone can make.", in this verse.

Belief is a choice.  Seriously?

[David1701]

Just now, Sparks said:

Yes, so what happens to the people who are not the elect in your theory?

It's not a "theory", it's what the Bible says, as I've already proved beyond doubt.

Quote

It shows the context of your argument is from a prior covenant.  Jesus changed everything.

My argument is from the New Covenant, as I proved by the verses I quoted.

Quote

Belief is a choice.  Seriously? 

The Bible does not say that faith is a choice anywhere - seriously.  The Bible does say that repentance and faith are gifts from God.

[Sparks]

4 minutes ago, David1701 said:

It's not a "theory", it's what the Bible says, as I've already proved beyond doubt.

I guess I still doubt it.

4 minutes ago, David1701 said:

My argument is from the New Covenant, as I proved by the verses I quoted.

It's from the New Testament, but it was describing events in Israel from the old Testament.   The New Covenant is for all nations, and the Old was for Israel alone.  

4 minutes ago, David1701 said:

The Bible does not say that faith is a choice anywhere - seriously.  The Bible does say that repentance and faith are gifts from God.

I didn't say faith, I said belief just as the scripture said.  You choose what you believe.  Faith means trust, and you also choose what you trust.  Both are choices.

We are not going to agree.  I don't believe what you believe and I don't think your presented evidence was strong, so let's quit here. 

Thanks for the chat.

[BeyondET]

11 minutes ago, David1701 said:

It's not a "theory", it's what the Bible says, as I've already proved beyond doubt.

My argument is from the New Covenant, as I proved by the verses I quoted.

The Bible does not say that faith is a choice anywhere - seriously.  The Bible does say that repentance and faith are gifts from God.

Seems James 4 is possible about faith.

13Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business, and make a profit.” 14You do not even know what will happen tomorrow! What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.

15Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord is willing, we will live and do this or that.”