The concept of the original sin

[Peterlag]

2 hours ago, David1701 said:

Is this what you are referring to?

Rom. 7:16,17 (WEB)

16 But if what I don’t desire, that I do, I consent to the law that it is good.
17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwells in me.

No. I trust Romans 7:16-17 is referring to Paul before he had the spirit of Christ. Romans 8 then goes on to say but now in the spirit...

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit...

Edited April 4, 2021 by Peterlag

[David1701]

16 minutes ago, Peterlag said:

No. I trust Romans 7:16-17 is referring to Paul before he had the spirit of Christ. Romans 8 then goes on to say but now in the spirit...

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit...

But it is not referring to Paul before he had the Spirit of Christ.  He loved the law of God, in his inward man, which only someone with the Spirit of Christ could do.

Romans 8 starts out with how to live a victorious Christian life; whereas, in the latter part of Romans 7, Paul had been trying to live, as a born again Christian, by law, and he failed (as every born again Christian does, if he tries to use the law as his rule of life).

[OneLight]

9 minutes ago, Peterlag said:

I don't play with words nor do I think like you that to be sinless one must be perfect. God never said that. Do you have a verse that says to be sinless we must be perfect. I only know what I read in the Bible and the Bible says I don't sin if I'm in Christ.

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

Yet you ignore questions about not sinning while in Christ.  I asked you back in another thread of yours called "De We Still Have A Sin Nature" the following and you never answered.

On 3/17/2021 at 11:43 AM, OneLight said:

How many time are we told that we are one body in Christ?  Are we also told that this one body is His Church?  Since we are one in Him, and Christ being the head of His Church, why then would Jesus tell His Body, the church, in Revelation 2 and 3 to repent if there is no need to repent after salvation?

Here is one example from Revelation 2:5

Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.

Be careful what you believe.  Satan, who fell from grace when pride was found in him, caused Eve to eat from the forbidden fruit when he said to her in Genesis 3:1-5 ...

Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.  For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

We now hear the same lie about not needing to repent.  If you find you are believing that we do not have to repent after salvation, ask yourself why there is so much scripture spoken to believers about how to live a life in Christ if there is nothing ever to worry about for nothing you can ever do will be a sin?

So, tell me, those in Christ Jesus is speaking to, what are they repenting from if not from sin?  It's so easy to pick and choose nice verses here and there to support an easy theology, but that is all it is, mans thoughts derived from they way they study- their theology. 

Who is the only Man without sin, perfect in every way?  You cannot take a couple of verses and lay it over many other verses and declare this cancels those out.  The whole NT was written for us to grow in Him, not that once saved we no longer commit sin.

[Peterlag]

50 minutes ago, David1701 said:

But it is not referring to Paul before he had the Spirit of Christ.  He loved the law of God, in his inward man, which only someone with the Spirit of Christ could do.

Romans 8 starts out with how to live a victorious Christian life; whereas, in the latter part of Romans 7, Paul had been trying to live, as a born again Christian, by law, and he failed (as every born again Christian does, if he tries to use the law as his rule of life).

This is where we disagree. You believe Paul is referring to the Christian in Romans 7 and I do not. I believe Paul is referring to Christians in Romans 6 concerning sin. Then in Romans 7 he says but before that you had the law and sin. Romans 8 back to but now in the spirit.

[Peterlag]

52 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Yet you ignore questions about not sinning while in Christ.  I asked you back in another thread of yours called "De We Still Have A Sin Nature" the following and you never answered.

So, tell me, those in Christ Jesus is speaking to, what are they repenting from if not from sin?  It's so easy to pick and choose nice verses here and there to support an easy theology, but that is all it is, mans thoughts derived from they way they study- their theology. 

Who is the only Man without sin, perfect in every way?  You cannot take a couple of verses and lay it over many other verses and declare this cancels those out.  The whole NT was written for us to grow in Him, not that once saved we no longer commit sin.

Not sure how my many Bible verses have become a few picked out of context. And I'm not sure what your question is that you say I did not answer. If it has to do with the book of Revelation? Then I stand with E.W. Bullinger on how the different time periods are set up in the Bible and according to Bullinger Revelation is not referring to the Christian. And yes Bullinger who is one of the greatest Bible scholars ever.

[OneLight]

16 minutes ago, Peterlag said:

Not sure how my many Bible verses have become a few picked out of context. And I'm not sure what your question is that you say I did not answer. If it has to do with the book of Revelation? Then I stand with E.W. Bullinger on how the different time periods are set up in the Bible and according to Bullinger Revelation is not referring to the Christian. And yes Bullinger who is one of the greatest Bible scholars ever.

Well, Peter, I am not discussing this with Bullinger.  I'm asking you.  I am not going to study what Bullinger believed in order to get an answer.  You can either tell me that you refuse to answer my questions in your own words, or do so.  So again, I ask you, since we are in Christ, therefore His church, if we are sinless after salvation, why would Jesus tell the churches in Revelation 2 and 3 to repent?  What are they to repent from if they are without sin?

[Peterlag]

3 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Well, Peter, I am not discussing this with Bullinger.  I'm asking you.  I am not going to study what Bullinger believed in order to get an answer.  You can either tell me that you refuse to answer my questions in your own words, or do so.  So again, I ask you, since we are in Christ, therefore His church, if we are sinless after salvation, why would Jesus tell the churches in Revelation 2 and 3 to repent?  What are they to repent from if they are without sin?

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Peterlag said:

What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.

The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.

From the eighth chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus” and “that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

From the sixth chapter of the book of Deuteronomy, it was written to those who lived under the Law administration, “it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.” However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.” What was written to those who lived under the Law administration is the complete opposite of what is written to us who live under the Grace administration.

We will always be in darkness and confusion regarding the truth of God’s Word if we do not understand the different administrations in the Bible. All hope for our redemption is in Jesus Christ, who was born into this world, died, and in the resurrection he became the head of a new creation. The living resurrected Christ Jesus has become the one great subject that occupies the Word of God that the church belongs to. It's this Christ Jesus that is the key to the divine revelation in the Word of God for this our Grace administration. The contents of the New Testament must be understood in reference to Christ Jesus our Lord because the doctrine and nature of God for this our Grace administration are centered in His Christ.

All this and still no answer.  I grow tired of your game of dodge.  Instead, let have an honest and mature discussion by asking and answering questions and not continue this contest of who knows what and how much.

[David1701]

2 hours ago, Peterlag said:

This is where we disagree. You believe Paul is referring to the Christian in Romans 7 and I do not. I believe Paul is referring to Christians in Romans 6 concerning sin. Then in Romans 7 he says but before that you had the law and sin. Romans 8 back to but now in the spirit.

Do you honestly believe that hostile-to-God, light-hating, things of the Spirit of God hating sinners, love the law of God in their inward man; but see another principle in their flesh, fighting against their inward man???

[Waggles]

1 hour ago, Peterlag said:

However, from the third chapter of the book of Romans, it's written to those who live in this present Grace administration, “by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight.”

Romans 1:

1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy scriptures, 3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh 4 and designated Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ;

7 To all God’s beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints:

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.