The sower parable

[Guest SelahSong]

1 hour ago, Whyme said:

I once heard a prosperity preacher teach that the parable of the sower teaches us to sow in good ground, and his ministry was good ground to sow financial seeds into. This isnt what the parable means though, in my opinion. I dont put much trust in preachers but the word gets sown in my heart by the scriptures.

Amen.  The Word gets sown in our hearts where He dwells.  Reminds me of:

Proverbs 4:23  Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.

Thank you.

Edited April 20, 2021 by SelahSong

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, PeterR said:

Of course by grace. Because God's justice is our salvation. Free to all who believe. There is no other way.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Rom 4: 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4: 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

What do you mean, "Not quite."

Hi Peter,

Yes we agree by grace, but we need to remember that those before the cross did not have the same opportunity as us.

Those before the cross became righteous by faith in what God promised and righteous acts. (Heb. 11: 7, & 12)

Those after the cross became righteous in Christ. (1 Cor. 1: 30)

regards, Marilyn. 

[PeterR]

9 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Peter,

Yes we agree by grace, but we need to remember that those before the cross did not have the same opportunity as us.

Those before the cross became righteous by faith in what God promised and righteous acts. (Heb. 11: 7, & 12)

Those after the cross became righteous in Christ. (1 Cor. 1: 30)

regards, Marilyn. 

Hi Marilyn,

It still speaks of the righteousness of God which is by faith ...and death in works.

 

Pro 11:18  The wicked worketh a deceitful work: but to him that soweth righteousness shall be a sure reward.

Hos 8:7  For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.

Hos 10:12  Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you. 

Psa 126:5-6  They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him. 

 

Are we ready now to understand what the parable of the two sons is about?

[Michael37]

4 hours ago, PeterR said:

Are we ready now to understand what the parable of the two sons is about?

Of course, Peter R. But should we be addressed in such a condescending manner, as plebeians who must bow to your superior explanation?  Please modify your tone, for the love of Christ and His ekklesia.

[PeterR]

"What faith? From the Faith of Jesus. For Jesus, who was fully human, also fully trusted in God.
Adam disregarded the Word, thereby bringing death - Jesus remained faithful until death, so Faith became the standard of life. Moreover, He who overcame sin and succumbed not to any temptation is entitled to the "spoils" of the Conqueror - the life of everyone who believes. This is the Good News. From the time of Golgotha until today, man can enjoy the benefits of Jesus' mission. As soon as he repents and asks for forgiveness. Because God, in His Mercy, planned rescue for the chosen ones - righteousness from the Living God through Faith in the Work of Salvation. Faith which is a gift because it comes from the Savior. What happens then? God first immerses us in the death of Jesus, then baptizes us in the Holy Spirit, and finally fills us with the Spirit. We are born a second time - a new creation arises. No effort, free. For salvation is fully the Work of the Lord, the Work of the Creator Himself! When a man is born a second time, he receives a new conscience on which the Law of Faith is written: Trust! The blood of the Lamb has washed you. You have inherited the Kingdom of God. The Creator also gives man a new heart in which Love is no longer a law, but a feature of a new nature. A Christian must enter the eternal Sabbath (rest) where the old law no longer has force over him. He is free in the Lord Jesus Christ." (W.)

 

Php 3:8-11  Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Php 4:17  Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, PeterR said:

Hi Marilyn,

It still speaks of the righteousness of God which is by faith ...and death in works.

 

 

I agree Peter,

However it is very important to realize

1. the faith in God`s promises for those pre-cross,

2. and those post cross.

 

To jumble those promises up leads to much error.

(I may not be able to answer for a while as have to go to hospital for a few days - pneumonia)

regards, Marilyn 

 

[PeterR]

14 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

I agree Peter,

However it is very important to realize

1. the faith in God`s promises for those pre-cross,

2. and those post cross.

 

To jumble those promises up leads to much error.

(I may not be able to answer for a while as have to go to hospital for a few days - pneumonia)

regards, Marilyn 

 

Thanks for your reply. I'll try to write back a little more about it.
Get well soon. Amen

[PeterR]

On 4/21/2021 at 11:28 PM, Marilyn C said:

I agree Peter,

However it is very important to realize

1. the faith in God`s promises for those pre-cross,

2. and those post cross.

 

To jumble those promises up leads to much error.

(I may not be able to answer for a while as have to go to hospital for a few days - pneumonia)

regards, Marilyn 

 

Gen 15: 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Hi Marilyn,
I see that you visit the forum so I will post my explanation.

 

You write something about different circumstances, that I mix different promises, that one can become righteous before the cross through faith and righteous works. I cannot agree with that.

Let us look at some of the verses you have quoted on this topic.
Heb 11: 32-33 (KJV)
And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

"wrought" - ergazomai (G2038)
Middle voice from G2041; to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc .: - commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

We know that the David mentioned here was a righteous king because he delivered justice to the people (2 Sa_8: 15), we also know that Samuel was a righteous judge (1 Sa_12: 4). This is how their faith was revealed and characterized. It was the result of their faith, a manifestation of faith. Their deeds were righteous deeds because they result from faith in God's Word but are not seen as acts of repentance or works through which God can forgive them sins!
Besides, nothing in the Scriptures suggests to us that we should think that they were not guided by the Holy Spirit, which in fact resides on earth since its creation (Gen 1:2 ; 1Sa 16:13). We do know, however, that HS was given to them at times to perform a specific task and later taken away (1 Sa 16:14). In the New Testament, the Spirit seals believers, and His abode is permanent (Joh 14:17).

Heb 11:7 tells us of Noah who, in fear of God and His warning, does what he believed. He believed in God's Word ...and promises.

All the others who are mentioned until the end of the chapter, everything they did was done "through faith". Their actions were not the fruit of their faith but the effect.

 

A verse worth considering here is:
Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

 

My conclusion is that although the Spirit was among the OT people, the payment for their sins was not made until the time of the cross (Rom 3:25). Animal sacrifices did not fully satisfy God (Isa 1:10-17). 

God did not sow the fruit or their characteristics, but a specific seed. The grain that is at the beginning of the way to bear fruit by its kind. The grain that must first die in order to bear fruit. Both faith is a gift from God and the works of faith are those that God prepared in advance. It is worth mentioning that God's care also lasts from sowing to harvest.

...

Exo 14:13
And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day ..
...

Therefore, I claim that God sowed faith (i.e. a seed of faith in God's promise, a seed of faith in God's grace, a seed of faith in the Messiah as a seed of faith in Jesus and his faith as a human being, and finally a seed of our faith in His resurrection in the flesh) in both the OT and the NT, a seed that can only bear the fruit (through testimonies) of the same faith (Isa 8:19-20). Although the listeners and some of the circumstances has changed, the grain with its characteristics remains the same (Joh 15:26-27). 

Gal 3:9  
So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

The contrast between those led by the Holy Spirit and non-believers is becoming more and more noticeable day by day. 
Jesus Christ died for the sins of all God's faith gifted people living in the OT and NT times. Salvation has always been and is by grace through faith without any "but".

The faith that lasted until death in the times of the OT is the same faith that in the times of the NT bears fruit with a new birth. Death is a testimony to this, and rest is a visible effect.

Eph 1: 4-6
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eze 33: 17-20
Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.

In my opinion, the change that has taken place is that the longed-for grace was revealed to the few before the cross, and after the cross it is the privilege of many (Christians).

I would really like to know your point of view and your justification on what we may not agree or understand.

[Whyme]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:38 PM, Guest SelahSong said:

Amen.  The Word gets sown in our hearts where He dwells.  Reminds me of:

Proverbs 4:23  Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.

Thank you.

Yes we must guard our hearts from the desire for wealth and the cares of this life. Like Jesus said, where your treasure is so is your heart.

 

[Marilyn C]

On 4/27/2021 at 9:00 AM, PeterR said:

Gen 15: 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Hi Marilyn,
I see that you visit the forum so I will post my explanation.

 

You write something about different circumstances, that I mix different promises, that one can become righteous before the cross through faith and righteous works. I cannot agree with that.

Let us look at some of the verses you have quoted on this topic.
Heb 11: 32-33 (KJV)
And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

"wrought" - ergazomai (G2038)
Middle voice from G2041; to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc .: - commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

We know that the David mentioned here was a righteous king because he delivered justice to the people (2 Sa_8: 15), we also know that Samuel was a righteous judge (1 Sa_12: 4). This is how their faith was revealed and characterized. It was the result of their faith, a manifestation of faith. Their deeds were righteous deeds because they result from faith in God's Word but are not seen as acts of repentance or works through which God can forgive them sins!
Besides, nothing in the Scriptures suggests to us that we should think that they were not guided by the Holy Spirit, which in fact resides on earth since its creation (Gen 1:2 ; 1Sa 16:13). We do know, however, that HS was given to them at times to perform a specific task and later taken away (1 Sa 16:14). In the New Testament, the Spirit seals believers, and His abode is permanent (Joh 14:17).

 

Hi Peter,

Thank you for answering. I have been in hospital with pneumonia so haven`t been able to respond. 

If you look at my previous answer you will see that we both agree - it is faith in God and what He has promised to -

1. Those pre-cross,

2. Those post cross. 

It is by the Holy Spirit and the righteous works are an outworking of their faith in God and doing what He told them to do.  

regards, Marilyn.