What is speaking in tongues and prophesying?

[Waggles]

video link erased.

Video links and videos are only allowed in that area of the form specifically meant for videos.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Alive
video

[Starise]

On 4/28/2021 at 10:56 PM, Willa said:

There are several Pentecostal pastors that I have greatly admired.  They had seen miracles that most would not believe.  It was when I heard them saying to each other that the greatest miracle is the salvation of souls that I became convinced that they were authentic.

Sam Sassar was a missionary to the Pacific islands, from the New Hebrides to Bikini atoll and had been ship wrecked and had plane crashes.  He traveled by tramp steamers in which everything on board had been sea sick and vomited, including the livestock.  

One plane crash left him walking on a coral reef that poisoned him.  It caused him to lose an eye.  When he returned to the States he became the principal of a Christian School. Once some little boys asked if they could see his glass eye.  He popped it out and handed it to them.  They ran out the door and chased some girls around the halls holding it up to them.    These people were real, down to earth and very humble.  Sam's travels sounded like Paul's.  

"Dr. Sam Sasser In Loving Memory. Dr. Sam Sasser. July 31, 1937 - September 27, 1995. Dr. Sam Sasser was greatly loved by many thousands of Pacific Islanders. Since 1960 he served as a missionary in the Marshall Islands and Samoa, helped establish 26 churches, and pastored in Honolulu, California, and Texas."

The extremists of any denomination seem to get the most press. We seldom get any other views within an organization giving us all a bigger picture of what the organization really is, so I find this refreshing. Though I'm not Pentecostal I find information like this constructive and refreshing.

And as you probably know, this is NOT what we usually hear about Pentecostals.

[BobRyan]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:52 AM, CaptWalker said:

I was just wondering how many people here have actually spoken in tongues AND prophesied according to Acts 19:6 and 1st Corinthians 14:1-5, and what it meant to you and how important it is for the average Christian to have this experience and what is called the "baptism of the Holy Spirit"? Because from what i hear some preachers saying is that it is almost critical that you have this experience and not just one time, but in learning how to pray in tongues on a regular basis. So basically i was just curious how Biblical this is for us today and if it's something that we should pray to have and experience or if it was just something for the early Christian believers?   

First of all - 1 Cor 14 "is Biblical". - the entire chapter.

Secondly - in both Acts 2 and 1Cor 14 the supernatural gift of tongues - is always a known human language and the person speaking is always in charge of the content and the timing -- not the Holy Spirit. This gift is a sign to unbelievers not to believers.

The Holy Spirit gives the gift - but does not specify content.

 

By contrast in the case of the gift of prophecy spoken of in 1Cor 12 and also 1Cor 14 - the Holy Spirit is in charge of the content -- and this gift is not a sign to unbelievers.

[Waggles]

3 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Secondly - in both Acts 2 and 1Cor 14 the supernatural gift of tongues - is always a known human language and the person speaking is always in charge of the content and the timing -- not the Holy Spirit. This gift is a sign to unbelievers not to believers.

The Holy Spirit gives the gift - but does not specify content.

That is not how it works in our Pentecostal church when we operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit.

[BobRyan]

20 hours ago, BobRyan said:

First of all - 1 Cor 14 "is Biblical". - the entire chapter.

Secondly - in both Acts 2 and 1Cor 14 the supernatural gift of tongues - is always a known human language and the person speaking is always in charge of the content and the timing -- not the Holy Spirit. This gift is a sign to unbelievers not to believers.

The Holy Spirit gives the gift - but does not specify content.

 

By contrast in the case of the gift of prophecy spoken of in 1Cor 12 and also 1Cor 14 - the Holy Spirit is in charge of the content -- and this gift is not a sign to unbelievers.

 

17 hours ago, Waggles said:

That is not how it works in our Pentecostal church when we operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I agree that many groups do not go along with what we find in 1 Cor 14

 

A. Notice that the text holds the reader responsible for content:

⁶ But now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophecy, or of teaching?...⁹ So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. ¹⁰ There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning. ¹¹ If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me. ¹² So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.

 

B. It is specifically a sign to unbelievers - to reach non-Christians. 

²² So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

 

C. notice that "the gift does not work" when the listener does not understand the meaning of the words spoken or if those words are not clear to the listener.

 

²³ Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

 

The abuse of the gift (in the example in vs 23 the abuse is everyone speaking at once  or in the case of vs 11 speaking something that the unbeliever cannot understand  ) results in the unbeliever not being reached at all.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by BobRyan

[Waggles]

8 hours ago, BobRyan said:

C. notice that "the gift does not work" when the listener does not understand the meaning of the words spoken or if those words are not clear to the listener.

That is why the Spirit-filled church is commanded to operate the gift of interpretation after each gift of tongues. 

1Corinthians 14:26  Therefore what should you do, brothers? Whenever you come together, each one of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. All things must be done for edification. 
14:27  If anyone speaks in a tongue, it must be on one occasion two or at most three, and one after the other, and one must interpret. 
14:28  But if there is no interpreter, he must be silent in the church, but let him speak to himself and to God. 
14:29  Let two or three prophets speak, and the others evaluate. 

And that is how we do it in our church meetings exactly according to scripture. 

[Amigo42]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:52 AM, CaptWalker said:

I was just wondering how many people here have actually spoken in tongues AND prophesied according to Acts 19:6 and 1st Corinthians 14:1-5, and what it meant to you and how important it is for the average Christian to have this experience and what is called the "baptism of the Holy Spirit"? Because from what i hear some preachers saying is that it is almost critical that you have this experience and not just one time, but in learning how to pray in tongues on a regular basis. So basically i was just curious how Biblical this is for us today and if it's something that we should pray to have and experience or if it was just something for the early Christian believers?   

I personally believe that some churches have the entire concept of speaking in tongues complete wrong.  I think it is even more egregious to tell others who don't speak in tongues that they don't have the Holy Spirit.  

Let's make it simple.  In the Bible, speaking in tongues, to the best of my knowledge, referred to speaking in other EARTHLY languages so that people who didn't speak a certain language miraculously spoke it for the express purpose of sharing the gospel.  In other words, someone who never spoke Chinese could be miraculously speak in one of the Chinese languages in order to teach people about the death and resurrection of Jesus.  

What people call speaking in tongues today though well-meaning is not the original tongues of the Bible.  The word "tongues" refers to languages and not just utterings that don't edify the body of Christ.

Now don't get me wrong.  I do believe that people may see some blessings or move of God when they "speak in tongues" today, but I believe God is simply honoring their faith in what they are doing in good faith not because it is correct.

[Waggles]

1 hour ago, Amigo42 said:

In the Bible, speaking in tongues, to the best of my knowledge, referred to speaking in other EARTHLY languages so that people who didn't speak a certain language miraculously spoke it for the express purpose of sharing the gospel. 

Then your knowledge (opinion) is wrong. 

For the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit given for use when the church comes together for a worship service are threefold - kinds of tongues, followed by interpretation of each gift of tongues. This then is followed by up to three gifts of prophecy (inspired speaking).

All this is done in accordance with 1Corinthians 14 as laid out by Paul the apostle for us to obey and follow. 

In these gifts God himself often speaks about the power and purpose of the spiritual language given to the saints.

[johnthebaptist]

On 4/22/2021 at 6:52 AM, CaptWalker said:

I was just wondering how many people here have actually spoken in tongues AND prophesied according to Acts 19:6 and 1st Corinthians 14:1-5, and what it meant to you and how important it is for the average Christian to have this experience and what is called the "baptism of the Holy Spirit"? Because from what i hear some preachers saying is that it is almost critical that you have this experience and not just one time, but in learning how to pray in tongues on a regular basis. So basically i was just curious how Biblical this is for us today and if it's something that we should pray to have and experience or if it was just something for the early Christian believers?   

I think speaking in tongues originally was meant to allow people to preach the gospel to people in other languages. I think much of "speaking in tongues" today isn't real. Paul tells us only to speak in tongues in church if someone is there to interpret (1 Corinthians 27-28).

[Waggles]

3 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

I think speaking in tongues originally was meant to allow people to preach the gospel to people in other languages. I think much of "speaking in tongues" today isn't real. Paul tells us only to speak in tongues in church if someone is there to interpret (1 Corinthians 27-28).

It is sad when those who are not pentecostal make declarations about the truth and work of the Holy Spirit.

Speaking in tongues is still for today and is considered by pentecostal Christians as the Bible evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit as described amply in Acts and elsewhere. 

In the church when pentecostal Christians come together for a worship service (and they are Bible disciplined) then in compliance with 1Corinthians 14 the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit are operated in one part of the meeting - tongues, interpretation and prophecy. All done decently and in order.