Is the Charismatic Movement Dangerous and Heretical?

[Waggles]

On 5/14/2021 at 4:54 AM, JohnR7 said:

Spontanious remission is usually the term they use when people receive a miracle. Although sometimes they say there must have been a error in the test results and there never was a problem in the first place. I have had miracles where my chance of being alive were one in 1200. 

Yes we too have numerous testimonies to healings by the power of God, by which medical staff have been completely stumped and dumbfounded by the miracle.

Some, a few, have the grace to acknowledge the miracle, but most claim a faulty diagnosis to begin with.  

[Daniel Marsh]

On 5/9/2021 at 9:41 PM, Paul James said:

The ministry of Jesus to Israel was set as an example for all subsequent Christian ministry.  This is shown in His statement: "The works that I do, you shall do also". This was proved through the ministry of the Apostles and others throughout the Book of Acts.

What we saw in the ministry of Jesus and the Book of Acts were:

Sick people healed by the power of God

demons cast out

The Gospel of Christ preached

The Spiritual gifts operating in the churches

At the turn of the 20th Century during the Pentecostal revival, we saw the same things happening.  In the 1960s during the Charismatic revival also the same.   The teaching was firmly Gospel-based in that Jesus came to save sinners, and everything that happened revolved around it.

But in subsequent years we have seen a trend toward personal spirituality, the desire for the "deeper life", physical manifestations, all changing direction from Christ and His finished work on the Cross, to people's personal sensory experiences.  

When I first came to Christ in 1966 in an AOG church, the music was a piano and an organ and people sang the choruses and hymns with great joy and enthusiasm.  The preaching was Christ-centred, straight from God's Word.

But over the last 40 years, the music has changed to "professional" music groups and singers giving a performance from the stage and "leading" the congregation in worship.  The worship changed from heart-felt praise and worship to the Lord, to worshiping according to the "professional" musicians singers on the stage.  It now has become, in Hillsong, music that is designed to hype up people's emotions and senses to almost a fever pitch where many actually go into trances, and when the pastor comes on the stage to calm people down, he can't, because the trance-like state of the people is out of control, and to stop it is like trying to stop a speeding train.

The preaching and teaching how now developed from Christ-centred and Gospel-based, to "God will bless you and be your friend.  He will heal you on demand, and increase your prosperity".  Instead of faith being rooted in God's promises, it has became a naming, claiming form of sorcery to get what the person desires for him or herself.  Prayer has gone from making requests to God and trust Him for the outcome, to using it as a type of power to achieve outcomes, as if prayer has a power in itself.  Using prayer like this is sorcery and witchcraft.  People have used the gift of tongues in the same way by laying hands on someone and praying over them in tongues.  This is using tongues as a form of sorcery, when the true use of tongues is to convey the mind of the Spirit in a prayer language to God.

Not all Charismatic churches have gone this way, but the corruption has got so ingrained that these things are now seen as part of the mainstream and an integral part of the nature of the Charismatic.

To boil the whole thing down to the simplest, the basic definition of "Charismatic" is the position that the Spiritual gifts as described in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14 are available to the church today, and the Charismatic revival happened when groups of believers accepted that and God honoured their faith as they sought Him that the Holy Spirit would activate the gifts in their groups.

The tragedy is that the true Charismatic movement has been hijacked by the false teachers, religious empire builders, practioners of Hindu Mind-Control and occult New Age spirituality, charlatans with "new" revelations, false prophets - all labelling themselves as "Charismatics".

When my Windows computer becomes corrupted and I can't fix it, I do a total new install of Windows and start again from the basics without the added software that has introduced the virus or the corruption.   Maybe we need to do that with the Charismatic movement.  Treat it like a virus - put it into quarantine to prevent it doing more damage to the church, and get right back to the basics of the Gospel that we see in the Book of Acts. 

In context Jesus was speaking to his Apostles, not to every Christian of all times.

[Daniel Marsh]

read to bottom page 6

[Paul James]

2 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

In context Jesus was speaking to his Apostles, not to every Christian of all times.

So was Paul incorrect when he told Timothy to pass on what he had learned from the Lord to faithful men who will teach others?

[Daniel Marsh]

On 5/8/2021 at 12:44 AM, Paul James said:

Today I have been part of a spirited discussion in the John MacArthur Facebook group concerning his quote that the Charismatic Movement is dangerous.  Some of the commenters have accused Charismatics of being demon possessed.

I referred to 1 John by way of challenge to say that accusing brothers and sisters in Christ of being heretical, demon-possessed and therefore dangerous to the body of Christ, is expressing a form of hatred for Charismatics in general and therefore falling well below what the Lord requires of the standard of love toward our brothers and sisters in Christ that show evidence of being truly filled with the Spirit.

Jesus said that having even negative and resentful thoughts about others is equivalent to hating them.   Of course, the anti-Charismatic folk on the Facebook page accused me of being hypocritical, even though I'm not even a Charismatic, but a Presbyterian in a Union Methodist/Presbyterian church.

So, I asked them how they defined "Charismatic", and so far they have not answered me.

I wonder, what is your definition of "Charismatic"?  It would be interested to know what people thought of Charismatics and who they actually are.

Genesis 8  ¹¹ And that afternoon the dove came back to Noah. The dove had a fresh olive leaf in its mouth. This was a sign to show Noah that there was dry ground on the earth.

This alone tells me the flood was local.   Plants and trees covered with water at the deepest part would have too much pressure to survive.   Plants and trees under water higher  levels would die because of the lack of exchange of gases. 

 

 

 

[Guest kingdombrat]

19 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Genesis 8  ¹¹ And that afternoon the dove came back to Noah. The dove had a fresh olive leaf in its mouth. This was a sign to show Noah that there was dry ground on the earth.

This alone tells me the flood was local.   Plants and trees covered with water at the deepest part would have too much pressure to survive.   Plants and trees under water higher  levels would die because of the lack of exchange of gases. 

 

 

 

Actually, it would take months for some (not all) vegetation to be destroyed under water in [normal] circumstances.   And this is how the belief in Genesis 1:2 came to be an idealism concerning the Luciferian Flood.   Because in that Theory, the flood lasted thousands of years, not 150 days or 6 months time, which is why they claim the Earth appeared to be null and void (null and void of all signs of life).

Edited May 31, 2021 by kingdombrat

[Guest kingdombrat]

13 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

Actually, it would take years for vegetation to be destroyed under water.   And this is how the belief in Genesis 1:2 came to be an idealism concerning the Luciferian Flood.   Because in that Theory, the flood lasted thousands of years, not 150 days or 6 months time, which is why they claim the Earth appeared to be null and void (null and void of all signs of life).

And let's not forget, it had not rained for how many years and there was still plant life in existence.   The ark was made of tree wood so with no rain there was enough wood to build a gigantic boat.   6 months under water would have been a vacation after hundreds of years without rain.

 

So nothing here was under normal conditions.

Edited May 31, 2021 by kingdombrat

[Daniel Marsh]

15 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

Genesis 8  ¹¹ And that afternoon the dove came back to Noah. The dove had a fresh olive leaf in its mouth. This was a sign to show Noah that there was dry ground on the earth.

This alone tells me the flood was local.   Plants and trees covered with water at the deepest part would have too much pressure to survive.   Plants and trees under water higher  levels would die because of the lack of exchange of gases. 

Mount Everest plus 15 Cubits (22.5 feet) is  29,054.2 feet.

gives us 12558.51 psi  https://bluerobotics.com/learn/pressure-depth-calculator/

Since the water is messed up,  I do not see a way to accurately calculate PH in the flood water.  Since CO2 in the air would not be nearly as high as it is today.   The PH would not be high enough to have enough CO2 in the water.   Also, plants and Trees can not turn dissolves CO2 into a gas it can use.

15 minutes ago, Daniel Marsh said:

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

17 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

Actually, it would take months for some (not all) vegetation to be destroyed under water in [normal] circumstances.   And this is how the belief in Genesis 1:2 came to be an idealism concerning the Luciferian Flood.   Because in that Theory, the flood lasted thousands of years, not 150 days or 6 months time, which is why they claim the Earth appeared to be null and void (null and void of all signs of life).

As a child I found this was easy to test.  take a plant cover it in one hundred feet of water in in a well.   Bring it up every three days to see when it is dead.  

[Daniel Marsh]

12 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

And let's not forget, it had not rained for how many years and there was still plant life in existence.   The ark was made of tree wood so with no rain there was enough wood to build a gigantic boat.   6 months under water would have been a vacation after hundreds of years without rain.

 

So nothing here was under normal conditions.

Mount Everest plus 15 Cubits (22.5 feet) is  29,054.2 feet.
gives us 12,558.51 psi https://bluerobotics.com/learn/pressure-depth-calculator/

 

What trees and plants can survive at 12,558 psi at 29,054 feet?