Theological Problems with God-guided Evolution

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

The Bible and science do not contradict each other,

Only man's interpretation of science or the Bible contradict each other.

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The Gen 1 creation story is full of symbolic images of the creation and is not always literal.

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The literal viewpoint of the creation is just a traditional view that existed before science matured to the level that we have today.

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To teach a literal view of the Gen 1 creation is proving the Bible wrong,

Teaching that the passage is full of symbolic images will prove the passage as right.

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Believing that the Gen 1 creation passage is literal is not a requirement for salvation.

I agree with you, my friend, but seeing as how the vagaries involved in the Lord's creation of everything seen and unseen constitute an unessential matter --- we know that He did and that is sufficient --- we should take care not to assume an oppositional stance. Doing so makes us no different than the YEC who preaches a different gospel than Christ crucified. 

Yes, they demonize and accuse others falsely, but that does not justify nor exonerate the same treatment from the demonized and accused. The Word made flesh was silent before His accusers and we should never forget this. The servant is not greater than our Master... as He suffered, so do we.  

What's the real issue, then? Needless dispute and endless argumentation over non-essential matters. The Lord educated me in the sciences and I specialized in evolutionary biology; it's neither my place nor calling to convince my brother that they're wrong and I'm right where unessential matters are concerned. 

I'm by no means responsible for his conduct but I'm most assuredly responsible toward my brother. He may do his best to heap shame and castigation upon me, but I refuse to engage in the same toward him. This is why I refuse to answer the contentious who seek to stir up strife. The works of their flesh speaks for itself admirably. My accuser doesn't require assistance in that endeavor. 

I say there's nothing amiss with my brother who believes in a literal interpretation of certain passages in Genesis and furthermore, I will defend him in that belief. So what if he believes in a young earth? We know the Truth, yes?

Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God who has come in the flesh, is Truth. Let us strive to love our brother even if he heaps condemnation upon our heads.  

[Guest kingdombrat]

17 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Prove it, @kingdombrat. Prove that belief in a young earth is essential to salvation. Accusation is neither comely nor worthwhile for the Lord is not an accuser. 

 

For one, I never said I believe in a Young earth because I am finding truth reading the actual Torah of the Tanakh to reveal more to what is known as the [Gap Theory].   But that just eliminates the fact that God Created everything, destroyed the Earth and creation we read in Jeremiah 4:23-28 between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

 

From Genesis 1:2 into the Creation Story itself, there's a strict viewpoint of Adam, because he ultimately leads through Lineage to Christ.   

 

If I was to make any claim that the age of the Earth is older than what YEC claims, it's the time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

[Guest kingdombrat]

14 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

There is no indication anywhere in the Bible that Moses received the inspiration for Genesis on Mt. Sinai. We know that's where the 10 Commandments came from, and most likely the laws given in the next several chapters of Exodus, but no claim is made about the book of Genesis.

And yet, each time he [Moses] went up he shown to the Hebrew people because they knew he had been face to face with God.   Now, From the time Moses helped by God's guidance to free the Hebrews, Moses led the people and died not being able to enter into the Promised Land.   So that means, Moses would have had to write the first 5 books during that 40 year period.   So it would have had to be those times with God he wrote Genesis and would have been directly word for word from God.   There's no other time from once the Hebrews left Egypt to his death.   That entire 40 years Moses visits God on several occasions.  So You are incorrect because this is the ONLY TIME FRAME for Moses to write all 5 Books!

[one.opinion]

6 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

 There's no other time from once the Hebrews left Egypt to his death.   That entire 40 years Moses visits God on several occasions.  So You are incorrect because this is the ONLY TIME FRAME for Moses to write all 5 Books!

Despite your claim, you really don't know that. The Hebrew people were in the wilderness for 40 years - I'm pretty sure God could have inspired Moses on numerous occasions throughout that time period.

[Guest kingdombrat]

2 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

Despite your claim, you really don't know that. The Hebrew people were in the wilderness for 40 years - I'm pretty sure God could have inspired Moses on numerous occasions throughout that time period.

Did you read my last post?

 

I am saying on several occasions Moses went up to see God.  We have account where Moses, Aaron, a couple other plus 70 went up and met God.   So this is a continual thing taking place all 40 years.   And since Moses dies 40 years in the same span of time as the Wilderness, this is when/where he would have both met God and wrote the 5 Books.

[Guest kingdombrat]

The Period of [time] from Egypt to the Promised Land is called the Wilderness that = 40 years.

That 40 years is the [Time Frame] Moses meets with God on continual basis and writes the 5 Books that Joshua takes with him to the Promised Land.

Edited June 7, 2021 by kingdombrat

[Marathoner]

15 minutes ago, kingdombrat said:

For one, I never said I believe in a Young earth because I am finding truth reading the actual Torah of the Tanakh to reveal more to what is known as the [Gap Theory].   But that just eliminates the fact that God Created everything, destroyed the Earth and creation we read in Jeremiah 4:23-28 between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

 

From Genesis 1:2 into the Creation Story itself, there's a strict viewpoint of Adam, because he ultimately leads through Lineage to Christ.   

 

If I was to make any claim that the age of the Earth is older than what YEC claims, it's the time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

I greatly appreciate the clarification, brother. I'm in agreement with you regarding the first chapter of Genesis; we also know that the earth is of old by the words of the apostle Peter (2 Peter 3:5). Science bears witness to Truth, an affirmation that God is evident in His creation. 

We all have our moments and I certainly have mine, so I'm glad for the straightforward answer. My words above apply to my own self in equal measure: I must take care not assume an oppositional stance because this does not serve the will nor purpose of God. 

I particularly bear witness to the viewpoint of Adam evident in the creation narrative. I've come to understand the first chapter of Genesis as a vision of the Lord's creation from start to finish, but that's not relevant to the topic so I won't go any further there.  

[Marathoner]

I write this with all sincerity, that my education in the sciences and knowledge of modern evolutionary theory never once shook the faith which God in His mercy bestowed upon me. How could this happen when the Lord Himself sent me to college? 

The Lord sent me to college.

It was an impossible thing to grasp, that as a grade school dropout I would set foot upon a college campus and achieve academic excellence. My penchant for observation and fixation upon detail made me a natural in forensic science. I was afforded the most unusual of honors as an undergraduate: an invitation to attend a seminar on forensic science at the University of California. The goal?

I would connect with Dr. Kathy Reichs, one of the world's foremost forensic anthropologists. The department head, after reviewing my academic papers, secured an invitation on my behalf. Forensic anthropology is an exacting field and it takes a peculiar individual to do well along that path. The Anthropology Department believed I was such an individual.

I never suffered a crisis of faith on account of what I learned. Indeed, the faith which Jesus Christ gave to me is greater than life or death. I live to serve the Lord.    

Edited June 7, 2021 by Marathoner

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, kingdombrat said:

I will grant it is possible that it could be a Poetic View.

I'm of the opinion that we're looking at a vision. Visions are rich with symbolic meaning and in this case, mind-boggling spans of time are expressed as days. What is time and space to the Lord Most High? Time is nothing to God for He is Almighty and eternal, but not so for His creation which proceeds according to time and times. Everything under heaven according to its season. 

[one.opinion]

1 minute ago, Marathoner said:

I'm of the opinion that we're looking at a vision. Visions are rich with symbolic meaning and in this case, mind-boggling spans of time are expressed as days. What is time and space to the Lord Most High?

I'm a bit embarrassed to say that this thought had never occurred to me before you mentioned it in this thread.  This really makes a good deal of sense. Do you know of theologians that have written about similar considerations?