Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[Salty]

16 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

First of all, Jesus ministry in His first advent, was exclusively to Israel, He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and 10:5-6.  The Church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:13. As such, there is nothing whatever in the Olivet discourse in Mt.24; Mk.13, and Luke 21 that has a single thing to do with the Church. 

You are wrong about Jesus' Olivet discourse in Matthew, Mark, and Luke not having anything to do with His Church. The very signs Jesus was covering in His Olivet discourse are the signs of Revelation 6. And His Revelation definitely does... have everything to do with His Church, because that's who He specifically gave it to through His servant John! The very last sign Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse was that of His coming and the gathering of the saints, which aligns perfectly with what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4.

 

16 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

When Jesus returns in His second coming to earth, as recorded in Mt.24:30, which He amplified in Rev.10:14, it will be with His Church, after His marriage to them in heaven, according to Rev.19:7-8, He caught up into the sky with Him, seven years earlier, in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

The idea that Jesus brings a raptured Church specifically 'from' heaven, on the last day of this world, is not a Biblical teaching. It is a theory from the Pre-trib Rapture ideas that came from 1830's Great Britain (Irvingites, the Brethren, Darby, et al).

A simple reading in 1 Thess.4 shows Christ's Church on earth still alive being "caught up" on the day of His coming (parousia). This also is what the Mark 13:24-27 Scripture shows with the alive saints on earth being gathered, while the Matt.24:29-31 version reveals the "asleep" saints being gathered from heaven.

Once all the relevant Scripture is understood as written, it reveals that on the final day of this world, on Jesus' descent from Heaven back to this earth where He ascended from (Mount of Olives), He will gather (raise if you will) the "asleep" saints He brings with Him from the heavenly, and on His descent with them He catches up the Church still alive on earth who will be 'changed' to their spiritual bodies at that moment of the trump sounding, and then all go with Him to Jerusalem on earth.

 

16 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

In the second place, when I am confronted with those who dogmatically contradict the Biblical facts I have posted, I will let them know, I am not an amateur layperson expositor by my qualifications to teach the Bible.  Not someone who is setting forth my personal views of end times eschatology.  Furthermore, my guidance and direction as to what I post comes directly from my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  No one else.

 

Quasar93   

I wish that were true but it's not, as you've already shown you rely on those men by trying to use them to back up whatever qualifications you think you may have.

 

[seeking the lost]

10 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

FYI, there is no Bible College in the world where the amateur layman teaches the teacher.  I suggest you keep that in mind.

 

Review the Chronological order of end times events I posted on this page (43), the third post from the top for the Scriptural support it has, in the verification of it. Which is fully endorsed by the following men of God, from every walk of Christian teaching.

 

1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D.

Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth.

 

The following link is the teachings of Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, complete with Scriptural proof.  There is no such thing taught in the Bible, as a pre-wrath/mid-trib or post trib rapture, let  along a post mill rapture you are suggesting.

 

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/19401898/The-Biblical-teaching-of-the-

 

 

Quasar93

 

 

Greetings Quasar93

That is a heap of teachers.  2 Timothy 4:3 [Full Chapter]

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Once the resurrection as an event is divorced from the rapture then you are free to place the rapture anywhere you like and as often as you like.  I have listened to those who teach 16 raptures.  Is that possible?  I link the resurrection and the rapture which cannot be moved.  The purpose of the rapture is not to take the wheat out of the way of the wrath.  The tares will be taken out first.  Consider This from the vision of the prophet.  

Ezekiel 9King James Version (KJV)

9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

There are those who have the mark of the beast and those who will have the seal of God.  

Revelation 7:2-4King James Version (KJV)

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Judgement will begin at the house of God.

The pre-tribulation rapture gives us a special class of christians that will reign with Christ without suffering.  Do you not know that if we suffer with Him we shall also reign with Him?  Then there is a class of people who when the church is gone will suddenly realize that they missed it and that they will now have to be martyrs to prove themselves.  The teaching of Revelation is toward preparing the Church to have patient endurance for the things that are coming upon the earth.  

Revelation 6:9-11King James Version (KJV)

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.  (notice the rapture has not occurred yet.)

Revelation 2:10

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

If there can be such christians without us we should just go ahead and get out of the way.

[Quasar93]

1 hour ago, Salty said:

Sorry, that's just not going to work. The KJV translation is well good enough in 2 Thessalonians 2 where Apostle Paul was teaching the proper sequence of end time events leading up to the day of Christ's 2nd coming and gathering of His Church.

2 Thess 2:2
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
KJV

As a matter of fact with the phrase "day of Christ" by the KJV translators in 2 Thess.2:2, the Greek for "Christ" in the manuscripts is in reality the Greek word 'kurios' which means 'lord'. The Greek word for Christ is Christos, not kurios. So Paul was actually pointing directly to the "day of the Lord" idea from the OT prophets, as he also had earlier in 1 Thess.5 pointed to that day about the end of this world.

Furthermore, nowhere... did our Lord Jesus nor any of His Apostles ever teach a Pre-trib Rapture idea. The only time of the gathering of the Church Jesus and His Apostles taught was on the last day of this world, also called the "day of the Lord" from the OT prophets.

 

 

FYI, "the day of Christ" in the KJV is a mistranslation as I can readily prove to you in another post.  It is nearly 100% "day of the Lord," in 2 Thess.2:3.  Review the following facts for your edification:

It's clear you are more interested in attempting to prove non-Scriptural eschatology than to learn what the Scriptural truth is.  Review the following that was previously posted, you are ignoring:

 

 

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:

 

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: [2 Thess.2:3] 

 

By Thomas Ice, PhD.

 

The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].
 

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed in verse 7-8:

In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Quasar03

[Quasar93]

The coming pre-trib. rapture of the Church, as taught by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul:

 BMt.24:31:
And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

For 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:1-8 et al:

http://deeperwalk.lefora.com/topic/19401898/The-Biblical-teaching-of-the-pretrib-rapture-of-the-Church#.WE7O-eQzVpw

 

Quasar93
 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Quasar93

[seeking the lost]

On 12/10/2016 at 2:37 PM, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Well okay, sorry for misunderstanding, but I think the Bible seems to indicate, that such resurrection is after the tribulation, which would rule out a pre-tribulation rapture.

Hi Omegaman 3.0

No problem.  You are correct that the pre-tribulation is ruled out.  That would be a pre-resurrection rapture.  1 Thes 4. 

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We will not prevent or precede them.  To teach otherwise is ignorant.  Verse 13 is very clear that the will of God is that we not be ignorant.

[Quasar93]

2 hours ago, Salty said:

The ONLY Bible college required to get understanding in The Word of God is understanding by The Holy Spirit through Faith on the Blood of Jesus Christ. And that applies to this world, and for the world to come, eternal.

I could just as easily throw up a long list of scholars and pastors of the past and present that preach a Post-tribulational gathering to Christ Jesus like The Bible actually teaches, but it wouldn't mean anything to those who have not studied God's Word for themselves with God's direct help by The Holy Spirit.

Isa 2:22
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?
KJV

 

 

The above reminds me of the following admonishment by Peter:

2 Pet.2:1: But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. ² Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. ³ In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

Quasar93

[Quasar93]

1 hour ago, Salty said:

You are wrong about Jesus' Olivet discourse in Matthew, Mark, and Luke not having anything to do with His Church. The very signs Jesus was covering in His Olivet discourse are the signs of Revelation 6. And His Revelation definitely does... have everything to do with His Church, because that's who He specifically gave it to through His servant John! The very last sign Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse was that of His coming and the gathering of the saints, which aligns perfectly with what Paul taught in 1 Thess.4.

 

The idea that Jesus brings a raptured Church specifically 'from' heaven, on the last day of this world, is not a Biblical teaching. It is a theory from the Pre-trib Rapture ideas that came from 1830's Great Britain (Irvingites, the Brethren, Darby, et al).

A simple reading in 1 Thess.4 shows Christ's Church on earth still alive being "caught up" on the day of His coming (parousia). This also is what the Mark 13:24-27 Scripture shows with the alive saints on earth being gathered, while the Matt.24:29-31 version reveals the "asleep" saints being gathered from heaven.

Once all the relevant Scripture is understood as written, it reveals that on the final day of this world, on Jesus' descent from Heaven back to this earth where He ascended from (Mount of Olives), He will gather (raise if you will) the "asleep" saints He brings with Him from the heavenly, and on His descent with them He catches up the Church still alive on earth who will be 'changed' to their spiritual bodies at that moment of the trump sounding, and then all go with Him to Jerusalem on earth.

 

I wish that were true but it's not, as you've already shown you rely on those men by trying to use them to back up whatever qualifications you think you may have.

 

 

The following Refutes your above opinions:

Scriptural proof for the pre-tribrapture of the Church 

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.


Quasar

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Quasar93

[Salty]

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

 

FYI, "the day of Christ" in the KJV is a mistranslation as I can readily prove to you in another post.  It is nearly 100% "day of the Lord," in 2 Thess.2:3.  Review the following facts for your edification:

It's clear you are more interested in attempting to prove non-Scriptural eschatology than to learn what the Scriptural truth is.  Review the following that was previously posted, you are ignoring:

2 Thess 2:2
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
KJV

The "day of Christ" phrase appears 3 times in the KJV NT; here in 2 Thess.2:2, and in Phil.1:10 and Phil.2:16.

Only in this 2 Thess.2:2 verse is the Greek word 'kurios', which means 'lord', mistranslated to "Christ". In the other two examples it is Greek Christos instead of kurios.

Your second statement is very rash, and of course false. I had already mentioned this matter of the Greek word 'kurios' mistranslated to "Christ" in the 2 Thess.2:2 verse in a previous post, and I said the meaning is actually "day of the Lord" and not "day of Christ". In the two other NT examples Christos is used, but even their meaning is pointing to the "day of the Lord" also, because that is the day of Christ's 2nd coming. It's plain to see the KJV translators simply made kurios into "Christ" for agreement reasons with Phil.1:10 and Phil.2:16. Yet it takes away from the idea Paul was covering in 2 Thess.2 about the "day of the Lord" with Jesus' coming, and... gathering of the Church.

So all I am iterating from Paul in 2 Thess.2 about "day of Christ (Lord)" is that day is WHEN he said the Church is gathered.

That is the simplicity of the Scripture which you instead say is non-Scriptural eschatology, revealing a false statement you have made.

 

1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

 

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:

 

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

 

 

The erroneous idea that the "day of the Lord" is the time of the "great tribulation" Jesus taught in Matt.24 is a theory of men. It is not the Biblical timing at all.

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

Apostle Peter showed us the "day of the Lord" involves an event that will BURN UP man's works off the earth on that day, which clearly means the tribulation MUST be over because of that.

Many brethren miss this event of God's consuming fire that is to occur on the LAST DAY of this present world with Jesus' 2nd coming. That last day is... the "day of the Lord" from the OT prophets, which is where Paul and Peter were pulling from.

The evidence is here, in Scripture like this from the OT prophets:

Isa 13:6-11
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:

8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.

9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
KJV

That is NOT about a time of tribulation by Satan and his hosts upon God's people. That is about God ending this present world along with the reign of the wicked (Antichrist) during the tribulation. That is the day of destruction from GOD Himself. It is when the elements of man's works are burned up, like Peter showed in 2 Pet.3:10.

But what you are following instead is a tradition from men that try to say that "day of the Lord" means the great tribulation timing when it does not.

 

[Salty]

2 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

The Daniel 9:27 verse is not... pointing to the "day of the Lord" event.

Can't have the wicked still in power on earth when the "day of the Lord" happens, as I have already shown from Isaiah 13 and 2 Peter 3.

The Dan.9:27 verse is pointing to the Antichrist coming at the start of the symbolic "one week" (7 years) to establish the "league" of Dan.11, which will involve the re-establishing of the old covenant with the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem. Then in the middle of the one week Antichrist will remove the daily sacrifices that will have been going on per that old covenant, and instead will place the abomination of Dan.11, an idol in the temple in Jerusalem for false worship. When the abomination is setup there will be 1260 days after that, which is the actual "great tribulation" timing Jesus taught in Matt.24.

None of those events are about the "day of the Lord" though. You are in error on that idea, because you got it from men's traditions, and not from keeping to God's Word.

[Salty]

2 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

The idea of Paul's apostasia there is hard-linked with what the "man of sin" does in verse 4, a verse which you Pre-trib Rapture folks love to leave out, but that is included in what Paul was revealing:

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

That idea of that false one sitting in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God, and exalting himself above all that is even called... God, or that is worshiped, is pointing directly to the Antichrist's setting himself up in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem for the tribulation, trying to play our Lord Jesus Christ.

This "man of sin" and "that Wicked" is the same one Jesus warned us about in His Olivet discourse:

2 Thess 2:9
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
KJV

 

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

 

It is the same false one coming during the tribulation we were warned about in Rev.13:

Rev 13:13-14
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

Thus God's Word on that is all tied together between that Matt.24, Rev.13, and 2 Thess.2 warnings about the great signs and wonders the coming Antichrist is to do at the end of this world. And with Christ's Revelation linking that, it means it definitely is also meant for Christ's Church about the coming tribulation!

Thus also, Paul's meaning of apostasia in 2 Thess.2 involves those who fall away from Christ when the Antichrist gets here, by being tricked into believing on that coming pseudo-Messiah (pseudochristos of Matt.24).