Wine and Ancient Israel

[Giaour]

Are you putting the blame on people who sell alcohol for the lack of control that the ones who consume it might have?

That's like blaming Jesus for turning the water into wine. He didn't force it down their throats.

[CarolineS]

Giaour,

I am not trying to place blame on anyone. I'm just trying to understand how a christian can sell alcohol, that's all. It just doesn't seem right to me.

In Christ,

CarolineS

[Giaour]

The same way that Christian can sell cookies to an over weight person.

[Iryssa]

*grin* well said.

[Remnantrob]

Also, keep in mind that drug classification systems are a relatively recent thing: Alcohol would not have been called a "drug" in Jesus' day.

Are you SERIOUS???

So the majority is ALWAYS right? Weren't there only on that ark of Noah's? I'm asking that question because many who have posted have said things like, "it's only become a problem in America. In the other countries its no big deal." Alcohol is a drug because of its negative effects on our bodies. It affects every part of the body, is absorbed really quickly(as short as 5-10 minutes) and it stays in the body for several hours. It is a depressant and can obviously become addictive. Here's a stat from a parents against anti drug site:

People who begin drinking before the age of 15 are four times more likely to develop alcohol dependence than those who wait until age 21. Each additional year of delayed drinking onset reduces the probability of alcohol dependence by 14 percent.

Key word to me, it causes a dependence on it. A lot of people who say "it doesn't affect me, I can live without it", are fooling themselves most of the time. Here's one more thing about alcohol...It kills brain cells. How can something that kills parts of your body not be considered a drug? Even in Jesus' day? What would be considered a drug back then? Were there any? I respectfully disagree with you on that comment. God bless.

[Guest yod]

I began drinking and doing drugs about the age of 13. I quit when I was born again.

I have a glass of wine maybe 3 or 4 times in a year....can't stand the taste of beer much anymore.

It's really not a problem for me but I do realize that it is a problem that causes others to stumble so I am not cavalier about when or where I will have a drink.

But to say that alchohol is against the law is legalism because that position can not be supported by scripture

You haven't used those terms but it seems that you are implying that??

[MrLuke]

I am not trying to place blame on anyone.  I'm just trying to understand how a christian can sell alcohol, that's all.  It just doesn't seem right to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well as a landlord of a pub, or even as just a bartender, you are well within your rights to refuse alcohol to someone. If you think they have had enough, you can stop them from drinking. So being a Christian in a place like that, we can use our better judgement to stop people from getting drunk. We also try to stop people swearing too and just generally try and make it a nice place to be where people can relax and be happy instead of having loud, roudy and drunkeness with fighting!

What would be considered a drug back then? Were there any? I respectfully disagree with you on that comment.

Well we only know it kills braincells and does damage to the body because we have the science to show and prove that now. Back then, how would they know what it did the the inside of your body?

Yes I'm sure they could see that drinking too much didn't do you much good, what with the hangovers and all, but other than that, how could they know in those days!

[Iryssa]

I am not trying to place blame on anyone.

[Iryssa]

Also, keep in mind that drug classification systems are a relatively recent thing: Alcohol would not have been called a "drug" in Jesus' day.

Are you SERIOUS???

So the majority is ALWAYS right? Weren't there only on that ark of Noah's?

I would love to understand what you're asking me here, but I think you left a word out or made a typo, because the sentence "Weren't there only on that ark of Noah's" makes no sense...I'm guessing there was supposed to be something after that word "only." Were the words "a minority" supposed to be there? Or something else?

Also, I never said that the majority is always right. The point I was making is that God doesn't need our petty human classification systems to decide what is right and what is not.

I'm asking that question because many who have posted have said things like, "it's only become a problem in America.

[DaniJ87]

About Jesus and grape juice... I believe that if the marriage at Cana had grape juice, the Bible would not have used the word for wine. They would not have had two different words- one for juice, and one for wine, if wine was juice.

as for nazarites, along with the grape requirement, they were also required not to touch dead things, and not to cut their hair. These requirements certainly do not apply to us now, so why the one about wine?

I would probably not consider wine to be inherently wrong, but I do not agree with social drinking, or drinking just because it makes someone forget their problems, or just to get drunk. All drunkenness is bad.

Am I mistaken, or is it true that wine has a different alcohol content than beer?

I do know that we have some types of beer that could contain more alcohol than in Jesus day, because the beer companies have started genetically engineering yeast for the beer, so that it does not die as soon after it starts producing alcohol. (alcohol is what kills the yeast) In Bible times, there would still have been alcohol, however unless they did genetic engineering back then, or had a kind of yeast that we don't, it would have had a slightly lower alcohol content.

by the way- for those who are anti-caffeine and alcohol and everything.. what about bread? Alcohol and ozone are created when bread bakes.

Mostly, the only reason why my family does not drink, is because of the reputation of drinkers, and because we desire to set ourselves apart from the world in that way. This is primarily because in my area the people that drink are lewd, and pagan. Yes, they need to be reached for Christ, but I advocate doing it in a way that does not include drinking.

This does not mean that I am opposed to someone drinking a glass of wine at a wedding, or occasionally for health purposes... or even cooking with it!

Addictions are sin, though. I believe that when you allow yourself to become addicted to something- anything- it means that you have put that thing above God.

about new wine.... according to the Bible, the disciples were said to have been full of "new wine" as an explanation for their behavior. Therefore, I do not agree with whomever said "the new wine will be grape juice."