Multiple Wives

[Guest shiloh357]

God blessed the offspring of that union.

Gens 17:20And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

God blessed the offspring INSPITE of the union, not because the union deserved to blessed. The union was not blessed, only Ishamael was blessed that because He was the son of Abraham.

[Guest shiloh357]

My opposition to Polygamy is based upon what it does to women who are the victims of a "multiple wife" situation. That is the part I have addressed that our polygamy advocates keep sidestepping. Polygamy is degrading to women. Historically, especially in the Bible, polygamy forced women into competition with each other for their husband's favor. It also forced them into competition over their children, and which children would be more favored.

Look at what happened between Sarah and Hagar. Hagar began mocking Sarah just after Isaac was weaned. The mocking was serious enough to warrant Hagar being sent away into the wilderness.

Peninnah and Hannah were wives of Elkanah. Hannah was barren, and Peninnah gave her no end of grief over it.

The Middleeast is, even today, very Patriarchial. In ancient times bearing your husband a son was the greatest honor a woman could have in this life. In a ruler's harem, the women who bore a son were more honored than those who bore daughters, and those who were barren were at the bottom of the pecking order. Some women were favored and treated better than others. That was just the nature of the beast where polygamy was concerned.

Polygamy while allowed, was never blessed, in and of itself. The difference is that Polygamy is allowed but true Bible marriage is ordained and ONLY the marriage of one man to one woman received God's complete stamp of approval. It was never God's best. My contention in this thread is that even if I cannot say that it was a sin per se, I can demonstrate that it was not God's best, and it was not how He intended marriage to be. As such, it does not stand as an equally valid marriage arrangement with God' plan of one man and one woman.

[MrsSealedEternal]

Hey ladies, don't you think Shiloh357 would probably make a compassionate husband?

Survey says...

[billie]

YES!

[Guest LadyC]

i wholly denounce you're accusation of me being a polygamy advocate shiloh. that is a totally false statement against me, and against butero, and i can't speak for the others.

i also resent the implication by nebula, although it wasn't directed at me, that to say polygamy was not forbidden by God is supporting a doctrine of mormonism. mormons who practice polygamy are criminals, and are as such violating God's will... and i won't even get into the other heresies of the mormon church.

nobody here is saying that polygamy is ideal, and i think we can all (at least most of us) agree that as it is practiced, it degrades women... and that the women in polygamous marriages throughout history were for the most part in fierce competition against each other.

nobody here is saying that polygamy was preferred by God.

the issue is simple: is polygamy (polygyny or whatever you call it) a SIN. the BIBLICAL ANSWER IS NO. God allowed for it. God regulated it. the purpose of polygamy was for the protection and provision of women who would otherwise be left to survive by prostituting themselves or risking rape and cruelty while gleaning the fields.

those conditions don't exist today in the modern world, and so there is no longer a need for polygamous marriages, and thankfully we have laws that prohibit it here. WE DO NOT ADVOCATE POLYGAMY.

what we DO advocate is Biblical truth. and Biblical truth on this matter is that it wasn't a sin... and in countries where it is still legal, it's still not a sin.

[Lionroot]

How is debating polygamy going to do anything for decreasing Christian divorce or provoking men to live holier lives?

Perhaps you haven't followed the thread.

We have have been discussing the holy men of God specifically Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Gideon and many others. That is to say they lived holy lives. They never divorced. They provided for their families. They did not use women as sex toys and discard them, as men do today with increasing frequency. They did not abandon their children. In short, they were obedient to God.

God says that his word shall not return void. So any discussion of his word will have a positive effect on the participants. Don't you think so?

This issue is entirely encased within the Bible. That

[Guest shiloh357]

i wholly denounce you're accusation of me being a polygamy advocate shiloh.

Denounce away. I really couldn't care less. I haven't said anything about you.

nobody here is saying that polygamy is ideal,

I never accused anyone of claiming it was the ideal. My point is that it was not seen by God as standing on equal footing with the only correct marriage arrangement of one man and one woman who get married and stay married until death. That is the arrangement as ordained by God. What I see in this thread is implication that since it was not a "sin," it was a perfectly acceptable and equally valid arrangement. Such a position is false.

it degrades women... and that the women in polygamous marriages throughout history were for the most part in fierce competition against each other.

Which is my chief complaint against it, and my primary evidence that it cannot stand as an completely acceptable marriage arrangement before God. None of the regulations that God placed upon the practice of polygamy removed the humiliation and social discrimination present in such an arrangement. God's regulations only ensured humane treatment by the husband to all of his wives. It did not prevent him from favoring some wives above others, nor did it eliminate the internal strife between the women who were jockeying for the master's favor.

nobody here is saying that polygamy was preferred by God.

Cut and paste where I accused anyone of saying that it was, and I will apologize for making that accusation

the issue is simple: is polygamy (polygyny or whatever you call it) a SIN. the BIBLICAL ANSWER IS NO. God allowed for it. God regulated it. the purpose of polygamy was for the protection and provision of women who would otherwise be left to survive by prostituting themselves or risking rape and cruelty while gleaning the fields.

All of which are points that I have already brought up previously as the basis for my opposition, and they were ignored. Instead, I keep getting the argument thrown back in my face that it is not a sin, even though I have already stated that I could not call polygamy a sin. I simply referred to it as a substandard, "tolerated" marriage arrangement, and while allowed it is not the ordained biblical arrangement.

and in countries where it is still legal, it's still not a sin.

Depending on how it is practiced.

[firehill]

Genesis 2:22-24

NIV

22Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

23The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man."

24For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.'

Genesis 2:22-24 tells us that a man shall leave his parents and unite to his wife (singular) BECAUSE woman (singular, not women) was taken out of man. The divine plan of God for marriage is between one man and one woman and the woman's derivation and the union of the one man and the one woman in marriage pictures the very mystery of Christ and the Church, his body while polygamy does not.

Ephesians 5

NIV

5:30 for we are members of his body.

5:31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." Paul here in Ephesians is quoting Genesis 2:24

5:32 This is a profound mystery - but I am talking about Christ and the church.

Imagine this:

for we are members of his body.

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his multiple wives, and he will become one flesh with all of them

This is a profound mystery - but I am talking about Christ and the churches.

Polygamy is a perversion of biblical marriage since biblical marriage pictures Christ and the Church.

But it's just a little interesting to see as far as the Bible goes and not the law of the land, where the starting and ending points are- regarding this matter.

If you come across something [in the Bible] please let us know- cause it's really getting interesting that no one has been able to provide clear-cut references that indicate the start and end of this issue from the Bible alone. And Quite frankly, I'm surprised. I, for one- don't know.

Does the evidence exist in the Bible?

The starting point is at creation which began with the derivation of woman out of man and God's divine ordination of one man uniting with one woman. Then that became perverted in the patriarchal culture though God's 'acceptance' of polygamy as already pointed out in this thread protected women in some way or another. It ends at the realization of polygamy's perversion based on both the derivation of the woman at creation and the uniting of the two (one man and one woman) picturing the mystery about Christ and the Church, his body.

Lionroot:

but in my house I write the "honey do list".

See the thread 'husbands 911' in General Discussion.

Does anyone have the right to practice polygamy? Shiloh357 has answered that question. Polygamy may not be a sin but in Truth nonetheless the practice of it is not a right given to anyone! For example while the Bible gives 'rights' for divorce (unfaithfulness for example) it never gives anyone a right to pratice polygamy. The desire of polygamy can also certainly be a sinful one just as the desire to have a slave can. For example, it is sinful for a man who views women as sex objects being his base reason for entering into polygamy.

Shiloh357:

Marriage does not exist because God conceded to man the right to be married. That polygamy existed at all in Israel was by God's permission/concession and not by decree. It was never presented equivalent to true Bible marriage.

[nebula]

i also resent the implication by nebula, although it wasn't directed at me, that to say polygamy was not forbidden by God is supporting a doctrine of mormonism. mormons who practice polygamy are criminals, and are as such violating God's will... and i won't even get into the other heresies of the mormon church.

LadyC - please, I wasn't directing my comment at you. I was directing this at a poster who has nothing better to do on this Board than advocate polygamy.

[Guest drbelitz]

Multiple wives ended when Jesus spoke of the immorality that needed a divorce. He was speaking of invalid marriages such as polygamous nes and mixed marriages that were not allowed at the time, that were not valid, but immoral in the sight of God and never a marriage to begin with.