Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[other one]

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. KJV

We see where the second (,) is in this text. Put the (,) after "day" and the text would seemingly have a different meaning.

Thats just an observation.

But here's an interesting scripture:

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Is Jesus contradicting Himself in these two texts?

No, Jesus was with him in paradise during part of the three days he was in the grave...... when he was resurrected he then went up to the Father

I do love that scripture though for he calls the Father his God even after his resurrection.

[soldier2]

Jesus was in heaven during the time he was in the tomb?

Is that true as well for all those that were raised from the dead like Lazarus etc?

[other one]

I know he was not in heaven all the time for he went to where the angels who sinned with women are being held.... and I always thought that he was in what is called Abraham's bosom. After the resurrection I simply don't know. Paul said that to be absent from the body was to be with the Lord, and John seems to think he saw him with the Father, so I personally think he's where the Father is and we end up there also. Doing what i haven't a clue. For all I know we may be under the throne complaining to the Father to get the devil.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, LivingH2O, and welcome!

Greetings Sibs-in-Christ!

I came across this AWEsome website the day after my Pastor challenged me to look into Eschatology. I'd never even heard the word before (really...it sounded kinda girlish and vaguely dangerous), yet God led me straight here!

What a valuable tool. I just wanted to Thank You all for your thought-provoking and knowledgeable input. I know I'll spend many entertaining and useful hours here. Be Blessed, LivingH2O

I can only speak for myself, but I hope we can be a help to you in the mysteries of Eschatology, the study of end-times events. Some of us are quite traditional, but some of us are mavericks. I guess most would say that I'm one of the latter. Feel free to pipe in anytime! (I usually just hang out here in the Prophecy and Eschatology parts of the forum.) Sometimes, I'm quiet, not wanting to contribute to a discussion that I believe is so off-base that it would be too laborious to make a contribution, but I will chime in from time to time, if the timing's right.

Again, welcome! Have fun!

[Montana Marv]

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. KJV

We see where the second (,) is in this text. Put the (,) after "day" and the text would seemingly have a different meaning.

Thats just an observation.

But here's an interesting scripture:

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Is Jesus contradicting Himself in these two texts?

No, Jesus was with him in paradise during part of the three days he was in the grave...... when he was resurrected he then went up to the Father

I do love that scripture though for he calls the Father his God even after his resurrection.

other one

Christ did not assend up into Heaven until His assension 40 days after His Resurrection. Eph 4:8 - When he ascended on high, He led captives in his train and gave gifts unto men. Matt 12:40 - As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the hugh fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Paradise was in the heart of the earth.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Ebed]

the Word Of God is black and white(and sometimes red) if this one scripture dosent clarify for you try reading the book of Joel. and where Jesus talks about the last days throuh out the gospels.

<< Amos 5:18 >>

New American Standard Bible

Alas, you who are longing for the day of the LORD, For what purpose will the day of the LORD be to you? It will be darkness and not light;

King James Bible

Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

American King James Version

Woe to you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

American Standard Version

Woe unto you that desire the day of Jehovah! Wherefore would ye have the day of Jehovah? It is darkness, and not light.

Douay-Rheims Bible

Woe to them that desire the day of the Lord: to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light.

Darby Bible Translation

Woe unto you that desire the day of Jehovah! To what end is the day of Jehovah for you? It shall be darkness and not light:

English Revised Version

Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! wherefore would ye have the day of the LORD? it is darkness, and not light.

Webster's Bible Translation

Woe to you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

World English Bible

"Woe to you who desire the day of Yahweh! Why do you long for the day of Yahweh? It is darkness, and not light.

Young's Literal Translation

Ho, ye who are desiring the day of Jehovah, Why is this to you -- the day of Jehovah? It is darkness, and not light,

עמוס 5:18 Hebrew OT: Westminster Leningrad Codex

הֹ֥וי הַמִּתְאַוִּ֖ים אֶת־יֹ֣ום יְהוָ֑ה לָמָּה־זֶּ֥ה לָכֶ֛ם יֹ֥ום יְהוָ֖ה הוּא־חֹ֥שֶׁךְ וְלֹא־אֹֽור׃

עמוס 5:18 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only)

הוי המתאוים את־יום יהוה למה־זה לכם יום יהוה הוא־חשך ולא־אור׃

עמוס 5:18 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants & Vowels)

הֹוי הַמִּתְאַוִּים אֶת־יֹום יְהוָה לָמָּה־זֶּה לָכֶם יֹום יְהוָה הוּא־חֹשֶׁךְ וְלֹא־אֹור׃

עמוס 5:18 Hebrew Bible

הוי המתאוים את יום יהוה למה זה לכם יום יהוה הוא חשך ולא אור׃

Apocalypsis 22:21 Latin: Biblia Sacra Vulgata

vae desiderantibus diem Domini ad quid eam vobis dies Domini ista tenebrae et non lux

Am�s 5:18 Spanish: La Biblia de las Am�ricas

�Ay de los que ans�an el d�a del SE�OR! �De qu� os servir� el d�a del SE�OR? Ser� tinieblas, y no luz;

Am�s 5:18 Spanish: La Nueva Biblia de los Hispanos

�Ay de los que ans�an el d�a del SE�OR! �De qu� les servir� el d�a del SE�OR? Ser� tinieblas, y no luz;

Am�s 5:18 Spanish: Reina Valera (1909)

Ay de los que desean el d�a de Jehov�! �para qu� quer�is este d�a de Jehov�? Ser� de tinieblas, y no luz:

Am�s 5:18 Spanish: Sagradas Escrituras (1569)

�Ay de los que desean el d�a del SE�OR! �Para qu� quer�is este d�a del SE�OR? Ser� de tinieblas, y no de luz;

Am�s 5:18 Spanish: Modern

�Ay de los que anhelan el d�a de Jehovah! �Para qu� quer�is este d�a de Jehovah? Ser� d�a de tinieblas, y no de luz.

Amos 5:18 French: Louis Segond (1910)

Malheur � ceux qui d�sirent le jour de l'Eternel! Qu'attendez-vous du jour de l'Eternel? Il sera t�n�bres et non lumi�re.

Amos 5:18 French: Darby

Malheur � vous qui d�sirez le jour de l'�ternel! A quoi vous servira le jour de l'�ternel? Il sera t�n�bres, et non lumi�re,

Amos 5:18 French: Martin (1744)

Malheur � vous qui d�sirez le jour de l'Eternel; De quoi vous [servira] le jour de l'Eternel? Ce sont des t�n�bres, et non pas une lumi�re.

Amos 5:18 French: Ostervald (1744)

Malheur � ceux qui d�sirent le jour de l'�ternel! A quoi vous servira le jour de l'�ternel? Il sera t�n�bres, et non lumi�re;

Amos 5:18 German: Luther (1912)

Weh denen, die des HERRN Tag begehren! Was soll er euch? Denn des HERRN Tag ist Finsternis und nicht Licht.

Amos 5:18 German: Luther (1545)

Wehe denen, die des HERRN Tag begehren! Was soll er euch? Denn des HERRN Tag ist eine Finsternis und nicht ein Licht.

Amos 5:18 German: Elberfelder (1871)

Wehe denen, welche den Tag Jehovas herbeiw�nschen! Wozu soll euch der Tag Jehovas sein? Er wird Finsternis sein und nicht Licht:

阿 摩 司 書 5:18 Chinese Bible: Union (Traditional)

想 望 耶 和 華 日 子 來 到 的 有 禍 了 ！ 你 們 為 何 想 望 耶 和 華 的 日 子 呢 ？ 那 日 黑 暗 沒 有 光 明 ，

阿 摩 司 書 5:18 Chinese Bible: Union (Simplified)

想 望 耶 和 华 日 子 来 到 的 有 祸 了 ！ 你 们 为 何 想 望 耶 和 华 的 日 子 呢 ？ 那 日 黑 暗 没 有 光 明 ，

阿 摩 司 書 5:18 Chinese Bible: NCV (Simplified)

渴望耶和华日子来临的人，你们有祸了！耶和华的日子对你们有什么好处呢？那日是黑暗，没有光明的日子。

阿 摩 司 書 5:18 Chinese Bible: NCV (Traditional)

渴望耶和華日子來臨的人，你們有禍了！耶和華的日子對你們有甚麼好處呢？那日是黑暗，沒有光明的日子。

Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD to what end is it for you the day of the LORD is darkness and not light

Woe

howy (hoh'ee)

oh! -- ah, alas, ho, O, woe.unto you that desire

'avah (aw-vaw')

to wish for -- covet, (greatly) desire, be desirous, long, lust (after).the day

yowm (yome)

a day (as the warm hours), of the LORD

Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')

(the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God -- Jehovah, the Lord.to what end

mah (maw)

how (long, oft, (-soever), (no-)thing, what (end, good, purpose, thing), whereby(-fore, -in, -to, -with), (for) why.is it for you the day

yowm (yome)

a day (as the warm hours), of the LORD

Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw')

(the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God -- Jehovah, the Lord.is darkness

choshek (kho-shek')

the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively, misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness -- dark(-ness), night, obscurity.and not light

'owr (ore)

illumination or (concrete) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.) -- bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.

Ezekiel 34:12

As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out My sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. KJV

As a shepherd's searching of his drove, In the day of his being in the midst of his scattered flock, so I do seek My flock, And have delivered them out of all places, Whither they have been scattered In a day of cloud and thick darkness. Young's

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. Jer 30:7

According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I show unto him marvelous things. Micah 7:15

And YHWH will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a chuppah. Isaiah 4:5

Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her. Hosea 2:14

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. Rev 12:14

You have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto Myself. Exodus 19:4

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man. Luke 21:36

And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you Face to face. Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the ADONAY YHWH. Ezekiel 20:35-36

Moreover, brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 1 Cor 10:1

Edited December 16, 2012 by Ebed

[back2thebible]

the best defense for postrib is the most plainly written scriptures, two come to mind .......Revelations 20:5 "THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION!"............and apostle Paul in 1 Thess. 4:5 "We shall by no means procede those who are asleep"

with this being said one only has to look and see who are apart of the FIRST resurrection..........and lo and behold!

MARTYRS WHO REFUSED TO TAKE THE MARK AND WORSHIP THE BEAST!

now the only way around these facts is if you believe there is more than TWO resurrections..............and that would be an easy debate

[OneLight]

I have just cleaned the thread of the last 2 1/2 pages of posts. This thread was started for the reason to discuss the issue without personal insults and attacks. If you can't do so when replying to someone, then start another thread and allow this one to continue in the light it was started with.

[Guest]

I have just cleaned the thread of the last 2 1/2 pages of posts. This thread was started for the reason to discuss the issue without personal insults and attacks. If you can't do so when replying to someone, then start another thread and allow this one to continue in the light it was started with.

Thank you so much!

 

It is an odd thing, how some people just want to state there opinion, and not even offer reasons why they beleive what they do, not refute what others believe, as if the thread was intended to be a poll!

 

It is even stranger, that people do not notice how the

[back2thebible]

two major resurrections one final return of Christ.........this is what the bible teaches