Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[JesusisGod2]

Another thing I,ve noticed.............

This is the only thread active on the whole board and at my count, there are only 4 of us.

Gee, are we that boring or worse

Frankie boy

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I've noticed a lot of people shy away from the topic of end times, rapture in particular. Perhaps it is because there are a lot of views as well as short tempers on the subject. It has at times gotten out of line.

Myself I think debate is healthy, as long as it is done in love with a view to lift each other up, to help each other understand as well as learn from each other truths that are being revealed to us in these last days.

By the way, here is a pretty good site that you may want to check out and I will also read what he says about the 144,000 as well as other topics by Spurgeon, not to be confused with the Spurgeon of old.

It can be found Here

Agreed, J is G,

But I still puzzle over the list....John is not in error, for it's the HS words.

Joseph, was originally divided into two half tribes of Manasses and Ephraim

But in this list, Manasses and Joseph are included and Ephraim removed.

Levi, who did not have a land inheritance, is included and Dan is excluded.

[Guest Frankie boy]

I believe that Spurgeon touches on the very subject if you read his online book called "And He opened my understanding" At the bottom of the page. I have not read the whole thing yet, but this man has done his homework.

He does some pretty good studies on America and Israel in the end times.

Hi Kevin,

Thx for the link. Went there and read the 144. Very good, but he does not touch on the "list" at all. Maybe it just is not important as I think. God only knows.

Also read his rapture teaching. Lot of neat insights, but some I do not agree with. Which is true of all of us. None has it all in one neat bundle as much as we would like to say we do.

He definitely is postrib.

Blessings bro, you have a gentle and searching spirit.

Frankie boy

[JesusisGod2]

I believe that Spurgeon touches on the very subject if you read his online book called "And He opened my understanding" At the bottom of the page. I have not read the whole thing yet, but this man has done his homework.

He does some pretty good studies on America and Israel in the end times.

Hi Kevin,

Thx for the link. Went there and read the 144. Very good, but he does not touch on the "list" at all. Maybe it just is not important as I think. God only knows.

Also read his rapture teaching. Lot of neat insights, but some I do not agree with. Which is true of all of us. None has it all in one neat bundle as much as we would like to say we do.

He definitely is postrib.

Blessings bro, you have a gentle and searching spirit.

Frankie boy

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Hi Frankie,

Keep in mind he is looking more at America and Israel in prophecy as oppossed to rapture timing in this study, (however, he is as you said most definately post trib) but he does have some really neat insights, dont he?

His online book seems to be having trouble so I will e-mail him and see what the problem is. I have emailed him before and he has responded. The book is well worth reading and he doesnt mind anyone printing the whole thing out and in fact encourages it.

I wish he would have touched more on the 144,000 though, what he has shared is what I have believed as well in that they are the first fruits of the tribulation era, and many more Jews will be saved on account of their testimony.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Guest Frankie boy]

Hi Frankie,

Keep in mind he is looking more at America and Israel in prophecy as oppossed to rapture timing in this study, (however, he is as you said most definately post trib) but he does have some really neat insights, dont he?

His online book seems to be having trouble so I will e-mail him and see what the problem is. I have emailed him before and he has responded. The book is well worth reading and he doesnt mind anyone printing the whole thing out and in fact encourages it.

I wish he would have touched more on the 144,000 though, what he has shared is what I have believed as well in that they are the first fruits of the tribulation era, and many more Jews will be saved on account of their testimony.

In Jesus

Kevin

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[Guest]

Maybe Omegaman might know and respond.

Good grief, don't count on that flake! )

I do not have a lot of opinions about the 144,000. Except to say that it annoys me when someone says that they go around evangelizing during the tribulation, I am still trying to find a passage that says that, lol!

Seriously, they are a mystery to me. I try to avoid the book of Revelation as far as using it as a foundation for theological ideas, except in places where it is the primary authority. It is (for me at least), one of the more difficult books of the Bible to grasp, so I prefer to get my doctrine from clearer passages, but that is a personal preference.

BTW, is it just me, or is there a tendency for pretribbers to embrace revelation more than posties? I seems to me, from personal experience, dialogues go like this:

Pretribber: The Rapture is pre trib.

Post: The Gospels and Epistles seem to indicate otherwise, when taken at face value, it seems clear.

Pretribber: I can infer from this vague passage in Revelation, that your are wrong!

Postie: Uh, hmm, I understand what you are saying, but I do not see that you inference is clear.

Now, that is tongue in cheek of course and a bit spun, but that is about how it strikes me!, lol.

[JesusisGod2]

I do not have a lot of opinions about the 144,000. Except to say that it annoys me when someone says that they go around evangelizing during the tribulation, I am still trying to find a passage that says that, lol!

HI Omega,

You are right as far as in Revelation it says nothing to that effect and I myself just assumed that to be the reason that God commissions them.

They will be the first fruit from among the Jews during this time and from other scripture elsewhere where it mentions Israel turning back to their God is what gives me the assumption that these are those who do the evangelizing..

Seriously, they are a mystery to me.

Me too brother. I guess thats why all the questions.

BTW, is it just me, or is there a tendency for pretribbers to embrace revelation more than posties?

I most definately believe in post-trib/pre-wrath rapture, but Revelation is a book that the more you read it the more it helps to understand other books. I believe it is a book that God wants us to embrace and read prayerfully and He will supply the understanding.

There are some things that we will not begin to understand until they start to unfold.

I think I'll just sit back and read yours and others responses for a while.

In Jesus

Kevin

[Guest Frankie boy]

Hey J is G and "O",

We posties seem to be the only ones here.

Gee, do you think "we have been left behind" as pretribs teach?? LOL,ROFL.

Frankie boy

PS it is true, that nowhere does it say the 144000 "evangelize" the world. This theme came from pretrib camp, for they say the church is gone during their ministry and someone must continue the Great Commision till the Second Coming of Christ in Glory. (Mat 24:14 / 28:20)

But as seemingly Jewish believers in the Messiah, the GC would be just as much their responsibility as it is ours. And I really believe that a Messianic Jew has more of a chance to minister to the unsaved Jew than does a Gentile. But then again, anyone called and endued with the HS can witness effectivley to any seeking heart.

Just MHO

[Guest]

Hey J is G and "O",

We posties seem to be the only ones here.

Not anymore! I could hear a pin drop! I guess it is settled then, it is post-trib!

[Trinity]

Hey J is G and "O",

We posties seem to be the only ones here.

Not anymore! I could hear a pin drop! I guess it is settled then, it is post-trib!

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Nah, i just realized these are some of the petty things in life, i wont convince you, and vice-versa, we brothers in christ, thats all that matter

[Guest]

Nah, i just realized these are some of the petty things in life, i wont convince you, and vice-versa, we brothers in christ, thats all that matter

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Wow, I know you didn't mean it that way. You said 4 things, I can agree with 1. We are brothers in Christ - agreed. I am always thankful for those who differ but understand that. I have been called a liberal and a heretic for defending the historical position, you have never sugested any such thing, thanks Trin!

"i wont convince you, and vice-versa". Hmmm, not sure I understood this to be about convincing anyone, but, I guess it seems like that. How sad though, when when you see youself and us, as too stubborn to learn, are we that close minded? Every postie I have met, I think, did not start out as one, so I hold out hope that most of us are open minded. I think I might have heard about one postie that converted to pre. So, I guess that suggests that some pretribbers are open minded, since they become posties, and most posties are, since they converted, lol.

"These are petty things." Perhaps if God/HS/Jesus could do it over, they could omit all of these petty things, maybe Paul, Matthew, Peter, John etc, should consider a revision.