Defense of the Post Trib Rapture

[Guest shadow2b]

-MORE MANIFESTED SONS OF GOD PHYLOSOPHY

[Brad]

erased

[JesusisGod2]

Hi Brad,

I thought that was where you were going with this, and although I respect your opinion, I disagree, asa matter of fact I strongly dis-agree.

You have most definately taken a preterist stand as if Jesus has come already, but this is simply not true.

I dont have time right now, but I will respond and post my views and understanding of the return of Christ, but I must warn you Brad, you have taken a very dangerous stand and it could end up making a shipwreck of your faith.

Preterism is a lie from the enemy! If Christ has already returned then the enemy would already be in hell fire prepared for him and his angels who rebelled with him.

God bless

Kevin

[Brad]

erased

[stevehut]

When the end comes, only one thing will matter: Either you're saved, or you're not. I'm not going to wear myself out with this kind of thing.

[Guest Michael's warning Ezekiel&#3]

I did a day and night study of the Pre Trib Rapture for two years straight when I hurt my back... My Good Friend Doyle Reno wrote a book titled TELL IT TO THE GENERATION FOLLOWING...

What always struck me as odd information, was the books Rapture event occured in Psalm 102:14-16 right after those 1st 11 verses that show a horrible war in Israel... Well, I was still sucked like millions of others and then I continued studies & engaged in arguements etc... But once I woke up from the delusional event, I realsied when that last Trump is sounded, it comes after many horrible events and not before... Funny Psalms shows a horrible war in Israel before the Lord appears also...

I have seen every verse in old and new testement showing an escape like possibility, but they usally are speaking directly of Escaping the 2nd death and not horrible deaths during the tribulation period... Sadly we have millions that wanna be all comfy thinking they deserve it, in our feel good preaching society... Once the War of Ezekiel comes to the mideast, followed by the peace offered to Israel by Satan himself, let us hope then millions more have enough time to wake up from fairy tale land... Godspeed from Michael...

[Guest shekel]

Some of us think we know when the rapture will occur, but we must be careful. Read the book of the gospel of John. This gospel is especially prophetic in scope and should be read in association with the book of Revelation, which was also written (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) by the same Apostle John.

In that book we see a pattern: the people had many confused ideas of when, who, and where the Messiah would be when He came. It grieved Jesus greatly. I am certain that the same spurious ideas passed on as fact will be the case in these last days---and indeed is currently the case. This is not to say that we are totally out to lunch---but that we are in error just enough to mess us up at key points (such as the timing of the rapture?)

I know by revelation (doesn't matter if you believe me!) that the whole end-time scenario will be vastly more complex than realized. Men who have been taught by God will perceive much and others less so. But that doesn't matter since we are a body. But the angels know and the devils know and are terrified to the point of being thrown off balance and end up attacking one another. "God is a man of war," it says in the song of Moses after the Red Sea crossing (when Pharaoh went down like a rock.) I have learned to realize that much of the bible is written for the sake of angelic beings far superior than us in intelligence. They are watching God's word being fulfilled day by day and are awe-struck! This is why we should praise Him even when only our spirit senses what God is doing but not so much our puny brains.

[abbershay]

where is the defence of the post trib rapture ? i thought that was supposed to be in this thread?

[papasangel]

The fact is no one on earth knows when the Rapture will occur so we must be ready at all times for Jesus's coming. But I do tend to lean towards pre-trib because of Revelations.

[JesusisGod2]

The fact is no one on earth knows when the Rapture will occur so we must be ready at all times for Jesus's coming.  But I do tend to lean towards pre-trib because of Revelations.

Hi Papasangel,

If you look to the book of Revelation as your source to back up a pre-trib stance, then how to you explain verses 20:5-6

"And I saw the thrones, and they that sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had recieved his mark upon their forheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." verse 5

Now all of the things highlited are things that happen before and during the tribulation period, and these are Christians that are spoken of here, now lets look at verse 6 and this is speaking of the first resurecction.

How do we know this? verse 6 explains it.

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection"

Now if you look at the book of Thessalonians, where it specifically speaks of the rapture according to what most believers believe, myself included. Lets take a look at it.

1 Thes 4:16-17

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first"

Notice here that paul speaks of a resurrection which in the book of Revelation says that the first resurrection happens after the tribulation period, we know that it refers to after the tribulation because if you will note in Revelation 20:5, it speaks of those who refuse to worship the beast or his image or recieve his mark.these events happen during the 7 year tribulation period.

Now lets look at the rapture in verse 17

"Then we who are alive and remain, shall be caught up together, with them, in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, so shall we ever be with the Lord"

Now notice that we during the rapture are to meet up together with those who have been resurrected in the clouds to meet the Lord together.

The first resurrection and the rapture, are one and the same event. Now again if you look at the book of Revelation, it relates the first resurrection to being after the tribulation period. So if anything the book of Revelation in my opinion, does not support a pre-tribulation rapture, and Paul in the book of Thessalonians puts the rapture with the first ressurection.

I do however think that the scripture teaches that this will occur before the war of Armegadon, where God will pour out His wrath on the nations.

Now lets look at the book of Revelation again at 20:6

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection , on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years"

This also seems to point to the first resurrection being post trib, pre-millinial, since we will rule the thousand years with Christ.

Now the second resurrection happens after the thousand years and you can read about it in Revelation 20:11-15. This is a resurrection for judgement, which is why it says blessed is he who has part in the first resurrection, for that is a resurrection of life.

The scriptures only speak of two resurrections that I know of, and the first resurrection coincides with the rapture, which again if you look at Revelation 20:4, happens after the tribulation. I guess you could say it is a post-trib, pre-wrath event.

I hope it helps, and I am open to correction, but I just dont see how anyone could justify a pre-trib rapture, when the scriptures clearly teach, the rapture is actually after the first resurrection, but are the same event, because it happens in the blink of an eye. but it says that "The dead in Christ shall rise first"

If you look at 1Thess 3:15 it clearly teaches that "..That we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not precede them who are asleep"

So notice that Paul here is saying that the rapture will not happen before the resurrection.

Let me know your thoughts.

In Jesus

Kevin