Israel in Prophesy (still future vs 1948)

[AandW_Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, dad2 said:

There have been many times of tribulation. None of these were any part of the wrath of God of the Tribulation. For one thing believers are not appointed to wrath, so we will not even be here for it. The Great Tribulation also is of a fixed time it is 3 1/2 years in the final seven year period. Therefore no events in history are part of this yet. That includes the fulfilled prophesy of the destruction of the temple. Neither has the man of sin ever been revealed in history, and all others were mere shadows of what is to come, including that mad Greek guy who blasphemed many centuries ago, desecrating the temple etc. So in context here nothing in history was God bringing back Israel as the prophesies say, because that is fixed for a certain time. (after the Tribulation)

I never said what happened in 70 A.D. was Revelation 16 and the Wrath of God.

 

But I do find it ironic that the biggest Verse used for pre-trib rapture is proceded by and followed by 2 separate Verses claiming <We who are (alive and REMAIN> we be caught up at the COMING of the Lord.   The Coming of the Lord has always been associated with the Second Coming.

 

But these Verses tell us we REMAIN until the Second Coming.

 

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

 

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Paul is clear by telling us Twice we Remain until the Coming, or the Second Coming of the Lord!

Edited July 30, 2021 by AandW_Rootbeer

[dad2]

15 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

Quote

I never said what happened in 70 A.D. was Revelation 16 and the Wrath of God.

So what exactly are you saying regarding the topic here?

Quote

 

But I do find it ironic that the biggest Verse used for pre-trib rapture is proceded by and followed by 2 separate Verses claiming <We who are (alive and REMAIN> we be caught up at the COMING of the Lord.   The Coming of the Lord has always been associated with the Second Coming.

 

But these Verses tell us we REMAIN until the Second Coming.

 

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

 

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Easy fix there. Don't get hung up on the 'second' coming thing. Let's call the Rapture the second coming technically, and the return to the earth itself and the mount of Olives the third coming! After all is the second coming ever mentioned in the bible?

 

 

 

[AandW_Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, dad2 said:

 

I definitely can find that view agreeable 

[dad2]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

@dad2, 

Perhaps you haven't realized it but your html tags are misapplied. Your posts look blank. The only way any of the readers can tell you've posted anything is by clicking on the quote of the other poster you've quoted. There are two solutions to this. The first is to click on the "Quote" tab and then make sure your cursor is below the quoted section before typing your response. An single response to an entire quote can be accomplished this way. If, however, you wish to section a quote and post separate responses to individual comments within a larger quote then the only way to do that with the quote feature is to re-click the "Quote" button making sure your cursor is below the quoted window  with each response you type. so it looks something like this...

{quoted section}
cursor below quoted section window to type a response
{quoted section}
cursor below quoted section window to type a response
{quoted section}
cursor below quoted section window to type a response
{quoted section}
cursor below quoted section window to type a response 

Anoter way is to simply not use the "Quote" feature and copy and paste the quoted section to which you'd like to respond into your post and highlight of format that text so it reads different than your response. For example, 

dad2:There have been many times of tribulation. None of these were any part of the wrath of God of the Tribulation. For one thing believers are not appointed to wrath, so we will not even be here for it. The Great Tribulation also is of a fixed time it is 3 1/2 years in the final seven year period. Therefore no events in history are part of this yet. That includes the fulfilled prophesy of the destruction of the temple. Neither has the man of sin ever been revealed in history, and all others were mere shadows of what is to come, including that mad Greek guy who blasphemed many centuries ago, desecrating the temple etc. So in context here nothing in history was God bringing back Israel as the prophesies say, because that is fixed for a certain time. (after the Tribulation)

AandW: I never said what happened in 70 A.D. was Revelation 16 and the Wrath of God.

dad2: So what exactly are you saying regarding the topic here?

AandW: I do find it ironic that the biggest Verse used for pre-trib rapture is proceded by and followed by 2 separate Verses claiming <We who are (alive and REMAIN> we be caught up at the COMING of the Lord.

 

This isn't quite as easy to read, though. Try making sure the cursor is below the quote. You can quote another's post multiple time in a single response. 
 

 

 

 

Just make sure the cursor is outside of the quote box before adding another quote or your own typed response. 

If you leave the cursor inside the quote box the staggered effect occurs. 

Hope this helps.

I was wondering about that, thanks.

[AandW_Rootbeer]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Technically they tell us about a second coming, not the second coming. 

Agreed, it most certainly does tell us that.

 

But it is about the Coming of the Lord, which whenever the term <Coming> is referred, it normally is accepted as the one and only Second Coming of Christ.

Edited July 30, 2021 by AandW_Rootbeer

[dad2]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Jesus told his disciples they would be handed over to tribulation (Mt. 24:9). Were those to whom he was talking that day handed over to tribulation? 

 

 Not at all actually. Just read a few verses before that to see exactly who would go through that tribulation. 

Matthew 24:19

 

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20

 

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 24:21

 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

We know when that flight is, if we are familiar with Scripture. That will be after we see that man of sin, the AntiChrist standing in the holy place in Jerusalem. There are many more details that pinpoint that timing for us as well in other places.

[AandW_Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, dad2 said:

 

 Not at all actually. Just read a few verses before that to see exactly who would go through that tribulation. 

Matthew 24:19

 

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20

 

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 24:21

 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

We know when that flight is, if we are familiar with Scripture. That will be after we see that man of sin, the AntiChrist standing in the holy place in Jerusalem. There are many more details that pinpoint that timing for us as well in other places.

You are mixing up two separate periods of Tribulation Christ forewarned about.   One in 70 A.D. will be nothing like the one we could actually experience in our lifetime.

[dad2]

3 hours ago, Josheb said:

Technically they tell us about a second coming, not the second coming. 

Since that is the hope of all ages and what we are told to look forward to, and the next item on the prophetic calendar of events, I suppose we could call it 'the' Rapture. 

[dad2]

2 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

You are mixing up two separate periods of Tribulation Christ forewarned about.   One in 70 A.D. will be nothing like the one we could actually experience in our lifetime.

No. I am not. 

Matthew 24:19

 

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20

 

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 24:21

 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

9 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

Agreed, it most certainly does tell us that.

 

But it is about the Coming of the Lord, which whenever the term <Coming> is referred, it normally is accepted as the one and only Second Coming of Christ.

One coming Jesus is in the air and we meet Him there, being called up from the graves as well as those believers who are alive right after that. The other coming is when He lands on the earth (Mount of Olives). Both are comings. The saints will be with Him when He comes back to land on that mountain. Ever wonder how all the saints could have gotten up there to be able to return to earth?

 

[dad2]

8 minutes ago, AandW_Rootbeer said:

You are mixing up two separate periods of Tribulation Christ forewarned about.   One in 70 A.D. will be nothing like the one we could actually experience in our lifetime.

The verse that I responded to was shown to be that 'great tribulation'

In case there is any doubt look at that last verse below..

Matthew 24:19

 

And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

Matthew 24:20

 

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Matthew 24:21

 

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Which verse do you claim is some other?

Edited July 30, 2021 by dad2