Purpose Driven Church or Presence Driven Church?

[gypc]

"Seeker Sensitive" is a mis-nomer. A truly Seeker sensitive church would recognize who the true Seeker is, it is Christ. It's not "lost" people who are "searching". The Scripture teaches us in Romans 3:11 that an unregenerate person does not seek God. Christ is the One who came to seek and save the lost. If a church wants to be "seeker sensitive" they need to realize Who the Seeker truly is.

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Wow, when I read this it hit me. Tess........this is so true.

[cag7800]

"Seeker Sensitive" is a mis-nomer. A truly Seeker sensitive church would recognize who the true Seeker is, it is Christ. It's not "lost" people who are "searching". The Scripture teaches us in Romans 3:11 that an unregenerate person does not seek God. Christ is the One who came to seek and save the lost. If a church wants to be "seeker sensitive" they need to realize Who the Seeker truly is.

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:

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Wow, when I read this it hit me. Tess........this is so true. :thumbsup

AMEN

[cag7800]

Yeah i read that interview a couple nights ago after my dad mentioned Jimmy Swaggart's son saying something about it

. I was really dissappointed with the way he handled the questions. From reading the interview, it seems like he is a sincere Christian but is so afraid to offend anybody that he would not even come out and say that he believes Jesus and His work on the Cross is the only way to salvation. No matter who it offends, we have to share the TRUTH, not tiptoe around it. He seemed to be on the verge of saying all religions lead to God at times.....yikes. Billy Graham's larry king appearance(s) also floored me...

-E

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yeah,donnie swaggart said it on the sunday morning program that airs on sunday morning's on spike,it was a 2 part,we got part one,but not part 2 so i ordered the dvd of the progran with the book bro. jimmy wrote,'THE CROSS OF CHRIST" sseems the is a new movement every day..down right scary

[JewishHeart]

The gospel according to Joel Olsteen,

Put on a smile and have your best life now.

[Christ's Free Servant]

I will say this though... I would rather have Spirit with some flesh trying to win people.... than...

Flesh with some Spirit ( Seeker Sensetive)...!

Why must they be separate and not equal?

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We don't draw men to Christ. Christ does that. So many of these churches think they must draw men to God, but in many cases what they are drawing them to is just to a Christian club or a Christian form of entertainment.

Do you remember the story of the disciples fishing? They fished all night but caught nothing and these were professional fishermen. Then, Jesus told them where to cast their nets and they obeyed and HE supplied the fish. That is what our approach should be to evangelism. We should ask the Lord to show us where to "cast our nets" and trust him to supply the fish, instead of trying to come up with all these ideas for how we can reach people for Christ. And, the nets are not to be thrown out into the church, they are to tossed out into the open water (the world).

I don't think that what we see in a lot of these churches is what the Lord intended church to be. It is not unlike going to a show, except there is audience participation during the music. Everything is geared towards trying to reach the unsaved and so the saved are getting neglected.

We have a ministry to young adults and several years ago we tried partnering with a local church to grow the ministry and it went well for awhile until they saw how successful it had become (in man's eyes) and the pastor saw it as a way to jumpstart something he had been wanting to do. He asked me if I felt our praise band had what it took to draw in large crowds of people. I knew where he was going with the question. He did not think we were good enough. He said he wanted to replace the band with another band and he wanted my permission to approach the members to ask them to step down and let another band that is better than them take their place.

The name of the ministry to these young adults is "This Space Available." It is about the space available for us to come to the cross of Christ in surrender to him and it also about giving young adults a place where they can be loved, wanted, valued, accepted and needed. The pastor knew this was the premise for which this ministry had been formed, so what he was asking was for us to go against the very reason for which this ministry existed. He was asking me to allow him to tell these young adults they were not good enough. Why? Because he wanted to "draw in large crowds of people." But, if we have to have a really great band to draw people, then it is not Christ we are drawing them to. It is ourselves.

Again, it is The Father who draws men to Christ. Our part is just to hear God's voice and to obey him by throwing our nets where he says to throw them and to trust him to supply the fish. And the church is for the building up of the saints so that they will want to go out and "fish."

[JewishHeart]

Sue,

Great Point!

[apothanein kerdos]

I will say this though... I would rather have Spirit with some flesh trying to win people.... than...

Flesh with some Spirit ( Seeker Sensetive)...!

Why must they be separate and not equal?

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We don't draw men to Christ. Christ does that. So many of these churches think they must draw men to God, but in many cases what they are drawing them to is just to a Christian club or a Christian form of entertainment.

Do you remember the story of the disciples fishing? They fished all night but caught nothing and these were professional fishermen. Then, Jesus told them where to cast their nets and they obeyed and HE supplied the fish. That is what our approach should be to evangelism. We should ask the Lord to show us where to "cast our nets" and trust him to supply the fish, instead of trying to come up with all these ideas for how we can reach people for Christ. And, the nets are not to be thrown out into the church, they are to tossed out into the open water (the world).

I don't think that what we see in a lot of these churches is what the Lord intended church to be. It is not unlike going to a show, except there is audience participation during the music. Everything is geared towards trying to reach the unsaved and so the saved are getting neglected.

We have a ministry to young adults and several years ago we tried partnering with a local church to grow the ministry and it went well for awhile until they saw how successful it had become (in man's eyes) and the pastor saw it as a way to jumpstart something he had been wanting to do. He asked me if I felt our praise band had what it took to draw in large crowds of people. I knew where he was going with the question. He did not think we were good enough. He said he wanted to replace the band with another band and he wanted my permission to approach the members to ask them to step down and let another band that is better than them take their place.

The name of the ministry to these young adults is "This Space Available." It is about the space available for us to come to the cross of Christ in surrender to him and it also about giving young adults a place where they can be loved, wanted, valued, accepted and needed. The pastor knew this was the premise for which this ministry had been formed, so what he was asking was for us to go against the very reason for which this ministry existed. He was asking me to allow him to tell these young adults they were not good enough. Why? Because he wanted to "draw in large crowds of people." But, if we have to have a really great band to draw people, then it is not Christ we are drawing them to. It is ourselves.

Again, it is The Father who draws men to Christ. Our part is just to hear God's voice and to obey him by throwing our nets where he says to throw them and to trust him to supply the fish. And the church is for the building up of the saints so that they will want to go out and "fish."

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If we abhore flesh or put little emphasis on it, then how do we cast out physical nets?

The spirit and flesh are equal in use and power. Neither holds any more power over the other. Both can be and have to be used by God. You can't use one without the other.

That is the problem with the "movement" that was mentioned. All spirit, all hedonism, thus it was doomed to failure. It was an emotional movement, not one of Christ. A true "movement" of Christ will feed the Believers but likewise meet the physical needs of the church and people. There hasn't been one of those in the United States in over two hundred years.