Should I get the Covid vaccine?

[Sparks]

On 8/12/2021 at 12:55 PM, ~Shalhevet~ said:

We've thought about giving in to what everyone else wants, getting the vaccine, and just not having to think about it anymore.  But is that right? 

No.  Don't ever give in to peer pressure.

On 8/12/2021 at 12:55 PM, ~Shalhevet~ said:

I believe we are making the right decision not getting vaccinated, ...

Then don't get it.  When people pester you about vaccines, then smile and say "I wonder if the rain will hurt the rhubarbs?"  Then go mute, or start a new topic.  It is really none of their business. 

While I support people's freewill choices to get an experimental vaccine if they want it, I also believe the people who got the vaccine didn't do much research about it.  It might be interesting to ask your friends who are pressuring you to get it, how they came to their decision.  I bet their answer has little to do with actual research.

[Marathoner]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:55 AM, ~Shalhevet~ said:

My husband and I have been going back and forth over this for months now and we can't come to a decision.  I've been praying for clarity, and am hoping to find some here.  The added pressure from friends, family and coworkers have made the decision even more difficult for us.   We've thought about giving in to what everyone else wants, getting the vaccine, and just not having to think about it anymore.  But is that right?  I believe we are making the right decision not getting vaccinated, but I don't want to be deceived because I know God heals and can prevent illness through modern medicine.  I've been reading a lot online but I don't know who to trust or what to believe anymore.   Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  I just want some honesty from some fellow Christians. 

The bickering and contention which arose is surely neither your heart nor intention, my friend. You came seeking the counsel of brethren and received something else entirely. It's a grievous thing to witness. 

I have no regard for the "oy veys" and grumbling of some who give themselves over to needless argumentation and petty dispute, so I will offer counsel in the spirit which you came to us all. 

I received the vaccination with confidence, considering the welfare of my neighbor first and foremost, secure in the knowledge that whatever befalls me is the will of our Father in heaven. The Lord and no other is the reason why I endure in this world for without His hand, I would've perished years ago. To live is Christ, sister. It was needful me to endure and so I have.  

The Lord is not the author of confusion (nor endless bickering) and His commandment is ever so clear, that we love our neighbor as ourselves. It is the greatest privilege and honor to be called by the Lord to set aside our lives for the sake of others, just as He did for us, and so I'm confident that the counsel of God will prevail even during these times filled with fearful naysayers and scoffing unbelievers.

There are some who are so enamored of their own opinions that you'll never receive the counsel you seek. Pay them no mind, @~Shalhevet~. Be still and tune out the cacophony, and you will hear the whole counsel of the Lord.  

[David1701]

20 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I do know the virus kills.

The survival rate of those who are known to have had Covid, for those under 60, is about 99.5%.

Given that these mRNA vaccines have not been tested properly, and the long-term effects are unknown (but some experts have serious concerns about them), it is by no means certain that you are safer taking one of the vaccines.  You claimed that it is safer to have a vaccine, but this is based on zero long-term evidence, since there have been no phase 3 human trials.

When someone asks for advice, a glib, "It's safer to take the vaccine." kind of response is not helpful.  If you truly care about the person who asked in the first place, then a more balanced, thoughtful response is required.

Edited August 13, 2021 by David1701

[johnthebaptist]

4 minutes ago, David1701 said:

The survival rate of those who are known to have had Covid, for those under 60, is about 99.5%.

Given that these mRNA vaccines have not been tested properly, and the long-term effects are unknown (but some experts have serious concerns about them), it is by no means certain that you are safer taking one of the vaccines.  You claimed that it is safer to have a vaccine, but this is based on zero long-term evidence, since there have been no phase 3 human trials.

Tens of thousands of people die in car accidents each year. Have you stopped driving?

[David1701]

1 minute ago, johnthebaptist said:

Tens of thousands of people die in car accidents each year. Have you stopped driving?

You are making assumptions.  I don't drive.

Driving is also hardly comparable to having an experimental, insufficiently tested, mRNA vaccine injected into you.

The best thing to do it to look at both sides of the story, and not merely the official line, without checking for yourself.

As an example, I suggest that everyone have a look at what Prof. Byram Bridle has to say about it (if it has not all been censored by now), as well as the official line.  He is not the only expert with serious concerns.

Glib answers don't help anyone.  We need to investigate.

[David1701]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:36 PM, BK1110 said:

I cannot speak for the UK, perhaps things are different there.

But there are plenty in the US, indeed in my own family, whose skepticism is born of fear and politics, rather than reason and research.

That is sad.  I would always recommend research and prayerful consideration.

[David1701]

On 8/12/2021 at 7:47 PM, ~Shalhevet~ said:

I truly wasn't looking to start a debate.  Thank you for your replies.  I will continue to pray about this.  

Yes, that's the best thing to do; but, I would also recommend investigating both sides of the debate, from reliable, medical sources.  Sadly, this is quite hard to do, since many of the concerns of doctors are being stifled and those who have concerns are becoming afraid to speak out, in case they lose they reputations and/or jobs.

[johnthebaptist]

12 minutes ago, David1701 said:

You are making assumptions.  I don't drive.

Driving is also hardly comparable to having an experimental, insufficiently tested, mRNA vaccine injected into you.

The best thing to do it to look at both sides of the story, and not merely the official line, without checking for yourself.

As an example, I suggest that everyone have a look at what Prof. Byram Bridle has to say about it (if it has not all been censored by now), as well as the official line.  He is not the only expert with serious concerns.

Glib answers don't help anyone.  We need to investigate.

We know the virus kills lots of people. The vaccine kills almost no one. Sure, 50 years from now everyone who took the vaccine might suddenly die, but it's unlikely.

[David1701]

19 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

We know the virus kills lots of people. The vaccine kills almost no one.

Yet...

Quote

Sure, 50 years from now everyone who took the vaccine might suddenly die, but it's unlikely.

Have you read any of the concerns of experts?  If not, then upon what do you base your, "...50 years from now...", and, "...it's unlikely."?  Are these just random thoughts, plucked from your own mind?

As I said previously, glib answers help no-one.  Investigate...

Edited August 13, 2021 by David1701

[one.opinion]

@~Shalhevet~, I appreciate the genuine concern about wanting to do the right thing. Before putting my $0.02 in, I must first acknowledge that I am a Biology Professor that earned a PhD in a molecular virology lab. I am not an active research Virologist, Immunologist, or Epidemiologist, so although I have a background that has taught me about a lot of these things, I am by no means an expert.

Having said that, I believe people undecided about a vaccine should have as many accurate facts as possible.

1. The vaccines available in the US were rigorously tested, including phase 3 trials. 

Moderna - https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/providers/clinical-trial-data

Pfizer - https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine#:~:text=(NYSE%3A PFE) and BioNTech,the study's primary efficacy endpoints.&text=The observed efficacy in adults,of age was over 94%.

Johnson and Johnson - https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-single-shot-covid-19-vaccine-phase-3-data-published-in-new-england-journal-of-medicine

Yes, the vaccines were developed and approved at record pace, but there were no shortcuts in the trial process. Huge amounts of red tape were removed and huge numbers of volunteers enrolled in the safety trials. Typically, researchers spend a LOT of time recruiting and enrolling volunteers until sufficient numbers have been collected, but that was not an issue with these trials.

Hundreds of millions of people have received these vaccines over the last 8-9 months, and there is virtually no chance of unexpected adverse conditions popping up years in the future that have not already been observed.

2. There is a low risk of serious adverse reactions to the COVID vaccines. Anaphylaxis is the most common, so health care personnel monitor vaccine recipients for 20-30 minutes after injection, just in case a reaction occurs. Other adverse reactions have occurred, at a rate of roughly 10 per 1,000,000 vaccinations.

3. The mRNA vaccines have had fewer adverse reactions, and protect from serious illness, better than the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.

4. The mRNA vaccines often cause fatigue, headache, muscle soreness, and possibly fever for a day or two after injection, but symptoms clear completely within those 24-48 hours for virtually all recipients.

5. The mRNA technology is not new, and other mRNA vaccines have actually been developed, but interest in these prior to the pandemic was just not abundant. So this is not a completely new technology, there is a working history going back about a decade.

6. The mRNA vaccines deliver mRNA in lipid nanoparticles to cells that are able to "read" the mRNA and produce the encoded spike protein. The spike protein then elicits an immune response in the recipient that takes about 2 weeks to fully develop. The mRNA itself is broken down within just a few days. The mRNA will not alter the DNA of the recipient.

7. At this point in time, over 95% of COVID hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated. While vaccinated individuals may have mild or asymptomatic infections, the vaccines were developed to prevent serious illness - not to prevent any type of infection from occurring.

https://www.cnet.com/health/99-of-covid-deaths-are-now-of-unvaccinated-people-experts-say/

8. While earlier in the pandemic, most seriously ill individuals were older, most of the current COVID-related hospitalizations are among the 18-49 demographic.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/young-people-make-up-biggest-group-of-newly-hospitalized-covid-19-patients

I must admit I am very much in favor of COVID vaccines, but I have tried to give you a balanced overview of pros and cons of vaccination.

I should also state that ultimately, this should be your (and your husband's) decision. I do not believe vaccinations should be mandatory, in general, but I do support the rights of certain companies (airlines, hospitals, and others) to require either vaccination or a reasonable alternative (like daily testing) of their employees.

If you have questions, I'll be happy to answer them or search for those answers.