Is belief in the Trinity essential to one's Salvat

[Ovedya]

Are you Roman Catholic by any chance?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not by any chance! Why do you ask ? More than just the Catholics believe in the Trinity my friend!

Be blessed,

Tim

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I asked because your previous response made just about the same argument that the Catholic Church did in their council decrees of Nicea and Constantinople. That argument being basically, "If anyone confesses anything other than what this council has decreed (or dogmatically defined), let him be anathema (or cursed to hell, basically)."

BTW: Maybe I should point out here that the term essential means something that it integral to the functioning of something. So when someone asks, "Is X essential," he or she is asking if it's an absolute requirement. For example, your heart is an essential part of your body. Without it you would die.

I have not yet found a single verse or verses which explicitly state or imply that unless one believes in "the Trinity" that he will not be saved. Nor have I found anywhere that states or implies that a confession of "the Trinity" is a confession unto salvation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really must get going...but quickly...you must believe in the "Trinity" to be saved...because the Bible says that God is a "Trinity". You must believe in God. If God is a Trinity, He is a Trinity. He can't and won't stop that. It's a fact.

The tread doesn't say...DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY...which is a whole other topic.

The question is...IS BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION???

Obviously...if God IS IN FACT Triune...one would have to believe that for salvation. If God is not Triune...one would not have to believe that...make sense?

Would you not agree that IF God is Triune...you would have to believe that for salvation. If not...falling short of this would be falling short of having the correct God for salvation.

Anyway...God bless you all and talk to you later on tonight, Lord willing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a very interesting discussion. The argument for it being a requirement seems to be that since God's existing in a triune nature is a part of His essence, we must believe it to be saved. Does this then hold for all of his attributes? In other words, does a person need to understand and affirm all of the recorded attributes of God to be saved?

I guess before we could answer this question, we need to unpack the question a little further. I see two possibilities in terms of the question.

1. If a person is unaware of the doctrine of the trinity (or any other doctrine regarding the essential nature of God) can they be saved?

Example:

A person understands that they are a sinner in need of salvation. They also understand that Jesus was both God and man and died in their place. They desire to believe, repent and receive Christ. They do not understand or know about the existence of the Holy Spirit. Can they be saved?

2. If a person is presented with the facts regarding the Trinity( or any other doctrine of the essential nature of God) and rejects them, can they be saved?

Example:

A person understands they are a sinner in need of salvation. They believe that God sent Jesus into the world, and that Jesus was God's son. They accept this and desire to believe, repent and receive. They also understand that the bible teaches that Jesus is not just God's son, but very God. This they cannot accept. They believe that God is God, and that Jesus was his son. Can they be saved?

Those seem to me to be two different questions. The answer might be the same, but I think they both need to be addressed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Brother Eric stirs the pot.

I think that the crux of the matter is, "What is the true gospel?" Is the gospel necessarily (or even essentially) so complex that the nature of God must be presented to the sinner as a condition of salvation, or to insure that their salvation is "genuine;" or is it so simple that the sinner can simply "receive first, and ask questions later"?

If it's the former, then which of the divine attributes are included as essentials of the "tru gospel"? If the latter, then is the entire gospel being delivered? Or perhaps more importantly, is there a servant of the Lord willing to shepherd the newborn babe with these truths essential to the faith?

I personally lean toward, "Receive first and ask questions later," and focus more attention on shepherding afterward.

[gypc]

OK, I'll play along, so what is the name of the Father?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

His name is Jesus, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Wonderful, Counselor, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Prince of Peace, I Am, Jehovah, Yeshua.......and there's a few more...........Healer, Deliverer, My Refuge, My Fortress, My Strong Tower.......Alpha, Omega.............and on and on!!!!

[Joy in the Journey]

I think that the crux of the matter is, "What is the true gospel?"  Is the gospel necessarily (or even essentially) so complex that the nature of God must be presented to the sinner as a condition of salvation, or to insure that their salvation is "genuine;" or is it so simple that the sinner can simply "receive first, and ask questions later"?

I lean toward the latter rather than the former.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do too Ovedya! The Gospel is simple...are/were we arguing for nothing ? I hope I never implied I believed that one must confess something other than "Jesus as Lord" to be saved ? But, I guess I was looking at it differently. Jesus is God- and one must confess Jesus as such ( He said so, not me )....I guess I saw the two as simultaneous events- meaning, if you confess Jesus as your Lord, you immediately confess that Jesus is God as He revealed Himself in the Word. I doubt the thief on the cross has must time to get all deep into doctrine, yet Jesus Himself proclaimed he was at that moment saved.

Now I'm all confused what I was arguing about!

God bless you my friend,

Tim

[Ovedya]

Our only measuring rod should be Christ Himself.

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I agree- but Christ is the Word ( John 1:1 )...and He said that we MUST believe in Him, and Him alone as our Saviour and our God- for He IS God; and we must confess Him as such. I don't see how measuring something against the Word ( the Bible ) is wrong The Word and Christ are one and the same...yes ?

The Word is God ( John 1:1 ) = Jesus is God ( John 10:30 ) = Jesus is The Word ( John 1:14 )

Do you agree ?

Be blessed,

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes and no.

I agree that Jesus is the Logos of God. That is, He is God defined, expressed, and embodied. But I do not agree that Jesus Christ, as the Word of God is equal to the written Word of God which we call the Bible.

Now, the words of Christ (who is God) were breathed out by Him, and recorded in the Bible by inspired writers under the direct influence of the Holy Spirit, and as such it is right to say that the Bible itself is the embodiment of God's speaking to man. However, I would not go so far as to say that the Bible itself is the embodiment of Jesus Christ. See what I mean?

[Ovedya]

I think that the crux of the matter is, "What is the true gospel?"

[Joy in the Journey]

LOL!  See how easy it is to get lost in all the terminology? 

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It sure is!

Be blessed my friend

Tim

[WayneB]

LOL!  See how easy it is to get lost in all the terminology? 

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YES... 'cause I was sittin' here reading what y'all were writing back and forth wondering IF y'all knew that you were saying the same thing but just from a different perspective.

I would have said something sooner but...

[traveller]

LOL!

[Ovedya]

[Snow4JC]

Greetings~

Thank you for your replies to this subject.

I read all your answers. It seems it can be debatable as to the correct answer.

I believe in G-D, The Father, Jesus The Christ, Father's Son, yet I have trouble when it comes to the Holy Spirit. I don't mean any disrespect. I have heard about the Trinity since I was very small, even spoke it in one of the creeds.

I know that the Bible says that the Comfortor was sent to us until the return of Christ.

Why would G-D and Jesus the Christ not beable to take care of everyone, they are everywhere, aren't they.

Now I am throwing more questions into the lion's den!

Snow