Why waste the energy?

[Fiosh]

Actually if you read Acts carefully you will see that there were elders - plural - in the churches. It wasn't just one man in leadership, with others under him.Christ is the head of the church.The Holy Spirit is the guide of each Christian.We are called a royal priesthood, the only mediator we need is Jesus and the only teacher is the Holy Spirit.

  Yes there is leadership in the church, but they are still accountable to each other and to us.The church is not the authority. Only the Bible is.

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Mornin' Smiles,

I'm not disputing that there were many "elders" in the early Church. The Apostles themselves and the men they sent out as bishops. However, Jesus also made it clear that Peter had a position of primacy, even changing his name.

In the Bible, when God changes a name it is a clear sign of a special mission.

And, I could cite many passages (although that would be repetitive since most have been cited numerous times) that attest to the fact that Peter was the leader among the Apostles and the one appointed by Christ to be the "rock" on whom the Church was to be built. And was the one told to "feed My lambs... feed My sheep".

You don't have to be RC to recognize this clear teaching of Scripture.

Peace,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

"

[Guest yod]

In the Bible, when God changes a name it is a clear sign of a special mission.

absolutely not. A name change only represents a new characteristic.

And, I could cite many passages (although that would be repetitive since most have been cited numerous times) that attest to the fact that Peter was the leader among the Apostles and the one appointed by Christ to be the "rock" on whom the Church was to be built. And was the one told to "feed My lambs... feed My sheep".

And we've shown numerous times that Peter was not even the leader among the apostles

You don't have to be RC to recognize this clear teaching of Scripture.

But you do have to be indoctrinated by the RCC to see it that way when it simply isn't true.

[Fiosh]

In the Bible, when God changes a name it is a clear sign of a special mission.

absolutely not. A name change only represents a new characteristic.

With all due respect, yod, you are wrong.

God made a covenant with Abram and entrusted to him the role of father of the nations........then changed his name to Abraham. (Gen 17: 1-5)

God made a covenant with Jacob, saying that a nation would come from him...and changed his name to Israel. ( Gen 35: 9-12 )

And, I could cite many passages (although that would be repetitive since most have been cited numerous times) that attest to the fact that Peter was the leader among the Apostles and the one appointed by Christ to be the "rock" on whom the Church was to be built. And was the one told to "feed My lambs... feed My sheep".

And we've shown numerous times that Peter was not even the leader among the apostles

No, you've only stated YOUR interpretation of those passages. I do not agree with YOUR interpretation. There is plenty of evidence to support Peter's primacy both among the Apostles and as leader of the Church.

You don't have to be RC to recognize this clear teaching of Scripture.

But you do have to be indoctrinated by the RCC to see it that way when it simply isn't true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not "indoctrinated" in the negative sense of "brain-washed". But I do agree that I have been "taught the beliefs and doctrines" of the RCC.

I have also researched and studied. I have read the Holy Bible and meditated on its truths. I have read commentaries and apologetics--both Catholic and non-Catholic.

But most of all, I have prayed to the Holy Spirit for guidance and truth. And, this is where I feel led.

In His Love,

Fiosh

[mrs]

Actually if you read Acts carefully you will see that there were elders - plural - in the churches. It wasn't just one man in leadership, with others under him.Christ is the head of the church.The Holy Spirit is the guide of each Christian.We are called a royal priesthood, the only mediator we need is Jesus and the only teacher is the Holy Spirit.

[Fiosh]

Actually if you read Acts carefully you will see that there were elders - plural - in the churches. It wasn't just one man in leadership, with others under him.Christ is the head of the church.The Holy Spirit is the guide of each Christian.We are called a royal priesthood, the only mediator we need is Jesus and the only teacher is the Holy Spirit.

[Guest yod]

why waste the energy?

that's a good question.

Apparently, Catholics will only read what RCC commentators/apologists say about the Bible instead of actually reading the Bible

Unless one really does not want to see the truth, it is impossible to read Acts 15 and not see that among the Apostles;

1. James was the leader of the ORIGINAL church (Jerusalem, not Rome),

2. Paul was their top theologian,

3. Peter was called to the lost sheep of Israel...NOT the gentiles.

He was no higher rank than 3rd in the early church with very limited authority.

It's clear that we are separated by a common language. Until someone is willing to look at the entire context of who is talking and the audience the are speaking to, you will fall for false interpretations.

God gave us each brains so someone else wouldn't do our thinking for us....

So...use the common sense that God gives to even a horse and see if you can answer 2 simple questions;

1. If it is SUCH a big deal that Peter be recognized as "THE" leader of the church, don't you think it would have been mentioned at least ONE TIME by ANY of the other apostles or writers of the Bible?

2. Don't you think Paul would have deferred some of the doctrinal questions he was getting from the gentile churches to be answered by Pope Peter?

[NITE OWL]

OK, why is it a lot of fundamentalist Christians waste both their time and mine trying to convince me that IM wrong and THEIR right. Dont we both believe in the same Savior/Creator? How come because I believe my church's institution should be visible, LIKE CHRIST SAID IT SHOULD, and that makes me a follower of the Anti-Christ? Why? Can anyone explain, without throwing a ton of Bible quotes at me? ( I dont mind a few but more than 10 and it gets hard to read) Well if u can Id appreciate it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe this was already brought, I didn't read the whole thread.

Don't you guys pay homage to idols?

Just curious.

[Fiosh]

yod,

RE: "Apparently, Catholics will only read what RCC commentators/apologists say about the Bible instead of actually reading the Bible"

I just lost alot of respect for you. That blanket statement is unfair and uncalled for.

I, personally, read the Bible daily. Any Catholic that practices his faith and attends Mass will hear a minimum of 4 Scripture readings each time.

Most, if not all, of the "practicing" Catholics I know read the Bible.

Fiosh

PS. Why waste the energy?

I just caught part of a program on the public broadcasting system.

A Jewish man brought his family to Poland to meet a Polish Catholic family.

He was a Holocaust survivor. The Poles were descendants of the family who helped to hide him and his family.

He wanted to show his son that all Polish Catholics were not worthless people, as they had thought. He told them, "We are all made in God's image and capable of doing the right thing under the worst conditions.

They now visit Poland each year to spend time with their new Polish friends.

Why waste the time?

Go figure.

Oh, btw, I'm Polish, too, in case you have a problem with Poles.

[Assisi]

After the Lord