God did not teach us these things

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, David1701 said:

Nothing that was named.

Book of Enoch: Most Quoted Book in Your Bible

[Hopefully]

2 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Book of Enoch: Most Quoted Book in Your Bible

Thanks I will as reading an article earlier about about verses in the Bible that are also found in Enoch. I’ll check this out too.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Hopefully

[David1701]

7 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Book of Enoch: Most Quoted Book in Your Bible

Most scholars believe that much of the so-called Book of Enoch was written AFTER the New Testament (in other words, at least some of the quotes are probably the Book of Enoch quoting the Bible), although some of it was written between 80 and 160 B.C..

The Book of Enoch also likely draws upon earlier sources that no longer exist.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, David1701 said:

Most scholars believe that much of the so-called Book of Enoch was written AFTER the New Testament (in other words, at least some of the quotes are probably the Book of Enoch quoting the Bible), although some of it was written between 80 and 160 B.C..

The Book of Enoch also likely draws upon earlier sources that no longer exist.

Actually, you are once more wrong.  The third primary Jewish sect, the Essenes, protected a number of writings in the caves in and around Qumran also known as the Dead Sea Scrolls.  Most scholars know the book of Enoch was written before Jesus time since he quoted from it in His Preaching.

I've already refuted these false assertions of yours in the links I provided, I see no reason to carry on anymore conversations with you.

[Dennis1209]

42 minutes ago, appy said:

The Bible nowhere mentions angels named Raphael or Phanuel nor does the bible talk about them. The only angels mentioned in the bible by name are Gabriel, and Michael.

When it comes to spiritual matters, the bible itself is the go to authority. Not some literature outside of the bible. The OT apocrypha books and the book of Enoch are not canon for multiple of reasons. They were not considered canonical by the Jews of Jesus’s own time. No NT author cites even a single book from the Apocrypha as being God's word. None of the NT writers directly quote from them. An allusion is not the same as a direct quote.

Jesus said the Scriptures were true and could not be broken. However the Apocrypha writings was not Scripture to Him. Since neither the Jews, Jesus, or His apostles considered these writings as part of the Old Testament neither should we.

 

You are absolutely correct, no debate about that! However; I find it useful to try to get into the Jewish mindset to better understand the Bible, what the Jews thought and believed of the time, the events and what they were thinking.

A couple of brief examples: I never could understand how the Jew's, first hand during the Exodus, personally witnessing all those miracles and blessings, right away turned back to Baal? Same with all the miracles Jesus performed, and attributed them to the Devil?

Why there is no mention of demons, unclean or evil spirits prior to the flood of Noah? Non-canonical books and literature can fill in some blanks, to consider and think about.

The modern western mindset and thought, is radically different than that of the second Temple period Jewish thought and belief's. 

John 21:25 (KJV) And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

The closed canon of scripture is our sole authority, infallible and inerrant. However; if the Jews and apostles of the time read other things, as evidenced by Peter and Jude quoting and citing I Enoch, why can't we?

I use a plethora of extra biblical texts in my Bible studies; Encyclopedia Britannica; Webster's 1828 dictionary; Hebrew & Greek lexicons; commentaries; etc. What's the difference between the preceding and extra biblical texts? They are all fallible, uninspired and have secular errors. They give me additional information to study and consider, as I try to separate truth from error. 

[Hopefully]

57 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

why can't we?

We can and we can chat about it because it doesn’t break the terms of service. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Hopefully

[enoob57]

10 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I try to separate truth from error. 

God's already done this with His Word
John 17:17

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
KJV

[Dennis1209]

11 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

God's already done this with His Word
John 17:17

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
KJV

That's a known, a given and a fact. But like everyone else on this forum, I'm human, and prone to misinterpretation and wrong understanding. 

Reading the very same book, the Bible, why are there so many different hermeneutic views, doctrines, and religious denominations? Is everyone's views, convictions and theology correct? No. 

Reading commentaries, pseudepigrapha, etc., provides me with thoughts and ideas that never crossed my mind before; to further study with what the word of God says. 

The Bible does not go into depth or detail on much theology; IE. Gen. 6:1-5, along with Peter and Jude's commentaries. 

Proverbs 25:2 (KJV) It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

[Hopefully]

I understand we are to stand up for truth. The truth is Jesus Christ died for our sins and all who believe in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

Enoch -as far as I understand, does not teach people that Jesus did not die for their sins.

Nobody on this thread- as far as I know, has said they esteemed Enoch over the Bible.

This thread was being treated as a danger to others, but the real danger on this forum is the spirit of debate and arguments that lives here. 

“Keep on telling everyone these truths. And warn them before God not to argue about words. Such arguments don’t help anyone, and they ruin those who listen to them. Do your best to be the kind of person God will accept, and give yourself to him. Be a worker who has no reason to be ashamed of his work, one who applies the true teaching in the right way. Stay away from foolish and stupid arguments. You know that these arguments grow into bigger arguments. As a servant of the Lord, you must not argue. You must be kind to everyone. You must be a good teacher, and you must be patient. You must gently teach those who don’t agree with you. Maybe God will let them change their hearts so that they can accept the truth.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:14-15, 23-25‬ ‭

“Be willing to accept those who still have doubts about what believers can do. And don’t argue with them about their different ideas. So each of us will have to explain to God about the things we do.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:1, 12‬ ‭

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Hopefully

[enoob57]

34 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

That's a known, a given and a fact. But like everyone else on this forum, I'm human, and prone to misinterpretation and wrong understanding. 

Reading the very same book, the Bible, why are there so many different hermeneutic views, doctrines, and religious denominations? Is everyone's views, convictions and theology correct? No. 

Reading commentaries, pseudepigrapha, etc., provides me with thoughts and ideas that never crossed my mind before; to further study with what the word of God says. 

The Bible does not go into depth or detail on much theology; IE. Gen. 6:1-5, along with Peter and Jude's commentaries. 

Proverbs 25:2 (KJV) It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

The sufficiency of God's Word is without question
2 Tim 3:15-17

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
and it is not of the Spirit of God to suggest to us otherwise! I have invested thousands of dollars for a digital library in which to reduce my end of inabilities and increase this reality
 

Isa 28:10

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
KJV
and as God gives us guarantee

John 17:17

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
KJV
all other scholastic endeavor should be held apart from Scripture and God The Holy Spirit blesses obedience

2 Tim 2:15

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
KJV