Marriage & Meaning in the Time!

[Kelly2363]

Without a doubt, it must be true that in seeking to understand the body of Christ, we must in some way also understand marriage.

"And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 9:1-10

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband." Ephesians 5:22-33

In reading these two passages of Scripture one could be forgiven for believing that when Paul says, "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church" – whilst speaking about the husband and the wife (Marriage) – and when we read in Revelation, "for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready", that we are somehow speaking about the same meaning. So what would you make of a circumstance wherein a sister is given eldership, lead pastoral ministry, lead worship and a lead visionary standing in a church? Who being also the wife of her husband, uses her husband as a canopy!

Let me quote from Watchman Nee, from 1934 in China."What God has ordained from eternity are both authority and submission. Yet many believers do not like to submit to authority. The world today is full of lawlessness, and I am afraid "the mystery of lawlessness" (2 Thess. 2.7) has already infiltrated the Church. How greatly children criticize their parents without fear, how often wives dominate their husbands, how much students attack their principals and teachers, and how laborers freely strike against their companies! Such things are rampant in our time. Even as the Scriptures predict, now is the time when "the lawless one shall be revealed" (2 Thess. 2.8). If we Christians are not careful, we too will be following after the Antichrist instead of Christ himself. How can we ever expect others to submit to authority if we ourselves do not submit to it? If God should be pleased to place some in the position of authority, we others should learn to submit to them: "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them: for they watch in behalf of your souls, as they that shall give account" (Heb. 13.17). In the light of this, we need to submit to the elders." The Church & The Work Copyright ©1982 Christian Fellowship Publishers, Inc. New York

When a sister is given these four areas of authority and influence in the church by which she is found in eldership, being the lead pastor, being worship leader, and also being one who directs the vision of the church, then we have in all meaning a woman who has in her hands every part of the local church. And when this open admission of authority is carefully presented in its direction – so that authority is grounded in a woman who is her husband's wife – therein lies a most diabolical deception. If any sister took these things of authority over the churches to herself, by her own will, then she would be easily set aside. For where would authority, then come? But when a sister holds this authority by her husband's consent and approval, then she is in authority as though she were the husband.

By that means it becomes impossible within the church to resist such an outcome no matter what ill effect arises from it because it is not possible to refuse a husband who is also a lead pastor and an elder of the church. That present growing reality in the churches must, therefore, be addressed by the prophetic ministry and in that meaning, there is no male or female that can refuse the judgement of God unless repentance comes first. Given that I have seen this direction arise in the churches for nearly thirty-five years, and given that the same meaning can be found in the world, then it is necessarily a demand of wisdom to understand this effect and to address it.

There is a more difficult reality that many appear incapable of understanding in this matter of women having authority in the churches, not least what that means, but more particularly how that ambition is an ambition of Satan.

You may also take it that if you reject what is said plainly, then it would be better to refuse what is said peaceably, otherwise if not, then this ministry can only disturb your faith. The prophetic ministry is a disturbance when what is said is refused and then the one rejecting what is said sets about to attack the prophet. Yet we live at the end of the age wherein there is little time left to us, and then full apostasy will be upon us and by that means, the Man of Sin. That is the reason and meaning of this area of ministry and no other. It is not to condemn others, not least sisters, neither is it to uphold foolish men who are weak and incapable of removing themselves from the world wherein these meanings have been playing out and now in the churches have come to a spiritual meaning that amounts to an ambition of Satan to be worshipped as God.

Men are heads of their households, from which households are elders come into visibility in the church. To question elders in the church and instruct them, or to desire to be an elder as a sister, you have in effect, questioned every household and take authority over every man.

[missmuffet]

Ephesians 5:25

 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

Ephesians 5:22-23

 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.  For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

Wives submitting to their husband does not mean they would tolerate any abuse at all. 

 

 

 

[Kelly2363]

9 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Ephesians 5:25

 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,

Ephesians 5:22-23

 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.  For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

Wives submitting to their husband does not mean they would tolerate any abuse at all. 

 

Did my post infer that a wife should tolerate an abusive husband?

[Faith-Not-Fear]

I once heard a beautiful illustration of what the Bible meant here:

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Yes, we are physically weaker than men. But the weaker vessels in ancient times were akin to an ornate, beautiful vase that you would place on a pedestal or a small vessel used to store a sweet smelling perfume, not the heavy vessel you would use to slop the hogs.

We also should not follow husbands by doing anything unwise to the detriment of our household's health or lives or anything against the Lord and His Word. See the example of Abigail with King David in 1 Samuel 25.

Also the Proverbs 31 woman was well dressed and handled her own money (wisely) and perhaps even her husbands.

The bible teaches that women should be hard workers, listen at Jesus feet, be feminine with long hair and wear modest clothing, not being dominant or loudmouthed, or seeking expensive clothing and jewelry.

Christian women seeking God's will want their husbands to love them and lead them in the right direction. With greater responsibility and leadership often comes greater judgment for men, even hindered prayers.

But be careful ladies. God also condemned Sapphira with her husband in Acts 5. Had she went against her husband, I believe she would have lived.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Faith-Not-Fear

[Kelly2363]

3 hours ago, Faith-Not-Fear said:

I once heard a beautiful illustration of what the Bible meant here:

1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Yes, we are physically weaker than men. But the weaker vessels in ancient times were akin to an ornate, beautiful vase that you would place on a pedestal or a small vessel used to store a sweet smelling perfume, not the heavy vessel you would use to slop the hogs.

We also should not follow husbands by doing anything unwise to the detriment of our household's health or lives or anything against the Lord and His Word. See the example of Abigail with King David in 1 Samuel 25.

Also the Proverbs 31 woman was well dressed and handled her own money (wisely) and perhaps even her husbands.

The bible teaches that women should be hard workers, listen at Jesus feet, be feminine with long hair and wear modest clothing, not being dominant or loudmouthed, or seeking expensive clothing and jewelry.

Christian women seeking God's will want their husbands to love them and lead them in the right direction. With greater responsibility and leadership often comes greater judgment for men, even hindered prayers.

But be careful ladies. God also condemned Sapphira with her husband in Acts 5. Had she went against her husband, I believe she would have lived.

 

Well I suppose as a vessel that is fit for slopping the hogs I am bound to point out that had Sapphire simply told the truth she would have lived - by then she was not the wife of her husband - she was widowed. Even if she had yielded to her hog slopping husband in a spirit of meekness before hand - in that instant before the church - she could have simply told the truth. 

My wife would have simply remained silent both before hand in the home if I had devised such a plan to deceive the church - and in the church as a widow - even if she had not understood that I was now in the grave. Fear of the Lord would have made the seperation in the home - and in the church fear of the Lord would have kept her.

Wisdom requires a greater measure of understanding what it is that ails the churches - than devising our escape. 

For a hog slopping husband in the churches you understand Sister! For a wife - she can remain silent. What a gift of God!

Edited September 19, 2021 by Kelly2363
Added last sentence.

[Faith-Not-Fear]

13 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

Well I suppose as a vessel that is fit for slopping the hogs I am bound to point out that had Sapphire simply told the truth she would have lived - by then she was not the wife of her husband - she was widowed. Even if she had yielded to her hog slopping husband in a spirit of meekness before hand - in that instant before the church - she should have simply told the truth. 

My wife would have simply remained silent both before hand in the home if I had devised such a plan to deceive the church - and in the church as a widow - even if she had not understood that I was now in the grave. Fear of the Lord would have made the seperation in the home - and in the church fear of the Lord would have kept her. Wisdom requires a greater measure of understanding what it is that ails the churches - than devising our escape. 

I did not mean to imply the vessel slopping the hogs was the husband.  Thanks for the laugh. But, I do confess that I have not chosen my past relationships well. I do pray for greater wisdom. Thanks for your postings.

[Kelly2363]

Just now, Faith-Not-Fear said:

I did not mean to imply the vessel slopping the hogs was the husband.  Thanks for the laugh. But, I do confess that I have not chosen my past relationships well. I do pray for greater wisdom. Thanks for your postings.

Oh no Sister - I loved the comment. Many of the men I know are vessels fit for slopping the hogs - even though they manicure their nails and prune their hair. I think your comment was wonderful. I bath just once every three months and only undress to wash and change my clothes. My wife loves me - but she knows I'm a hog. Just a hog who no one wants to take to the hog roast. 

[Heleadethme]

I don't believe women should usurp authority in the church or home, however, a woman wouldn't be much of a help meet for her husband if she kept her wisdom to herself all the time instead of sharing it when it was called for.  If Sapphira hadn't been complicit with her husband, she would and should have kindly advised him against the course of action he was planning, and maybe that would have averted the disaster.

[Kelly2363]

1 minute ago, Heleadethme said:

I don't believe women should usurp authority in the church or home, however, a woman wouldn't be much of a help meet for her husband if she kept her wisdom to herself all the time instead of sharing it when it was called for.  If Sapphira hadn't been complicit with her husband, she would and should have kindly advised him against the course of action he was planning, and maybe that would have averted the disaster.

Amen Sister. That is wisdom in the home. But quietness takes maturity to lay hold of through time when a husband proves himself to be endlessly foolish  -  And in the beginning of marriage - natural affection will keep a woman. It is when both natural affection and quietness are overthrown that speaking in the churches becomes a harmful thing. Not least because neither in the home nor in the churches is a woman given authority to speak so as to effect a change in men by teaching. Men must be accountable for their own condition and their wives are bound up in that effect by ordinance of God. It takes some doing to witness how many wives suffer because of their husbands = and it is a source of constant astonishment to me how many of those wives remain loyal to their husbands. The rod is for the husband - not the wife. 

Whether Sapphire was complicit with her husband or not is ultimately not the profound issue. Her lying is what she was held accountable for - not her husband.  The Holy Spirit removed her from marriage before she lied - by removing her husband. 

[Starise]

I think most people just naturally gravitate to what they intrinsically know they are good at. If you told me there was this little person growing inside me and in 9 months it was going to come out I think I would need medication to deal with that, but then for me it isn't a natural thing. Come to think of it I would need meds after that too, maybe more of them. Mr. Mom would be Mr. Crazy.

The Lord leads us to what we are good at if we follow Him.

The Biblical comparison to marriage is under ideal conditions. The subject you refer to has a 50% percent failure rate the last time I checked leading me to believe it is anything but ideal conditions.

It often makes a lot of people wealthy, those who cater and plan weddings, jewelry makers, those who sell wedding gowns, divorce lawyers, private investigators and marriage counselors....the list goes on. 

The human expression used as a comparison to the heavenly version between us as the church and Yahweh is woefully lacking. On a good day it takes work. On a bad day.....well you don't wanna know.