What if others will be in heaven?

[Your closest friendnt]

25 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

“People who have the law and those who have never heard of the law are all the same when they sin. People who don’t have the law and are sinners will be lost. And, in the same way, those who have the law and are sinners will be judged by the law. Hearing the law does not make people right with God. They will be right before him only if they always do what the law says. Those who are not Jews don’t have the law. But when they naturally do what the law commands without even knowing the law, then they are their own law. This is true even though they don’t have the written law. They show that in their hearts they know what is right and wrong, the same as the law commands, and their consciences agree. Sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done wrong, and this makes them guilty. And sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done right, and this makes them not guilty. All this will happen on the day when God will judge people’s secret thoughts through Jesus Christ. This is part of the Good News that I tell everyone.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭

Thank you for your response...

But they are some things in the post I do not agree with, things expressed and things suggested...nothing is silent..you have shaken up a lot of things and are moving and want to say something...and you have put it on me to speak on their behalf. 

Well that's what I do for a living I am a voice for them that cannot speak. 

***the scripture says (and I am wondering if you have heard about it) that God have left the sins of the people without the Law unpunished.

***God did not hold them accountable for their sins.

What about them?  The time will come for them to die, what's then about them? 

[Kelly2363]

44 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Judgment in the house of the Lord begins with oneself. This is the point I have been trying to make from the beginning. In light of the fact judgment begins with oneself when a person says they are being judged from afar with things not of God that is elf-indicting. 

 

 

Real life true story: 

Sunday I was shopping in a popular wholesale store with my wife. As we finished our shopping my wife was having difficulty getting the coupons to load on her phone app (poor wifi inside the store ) so she headed up to the customer service desk to see if the problem could be resolved and I headed to the cash registers only to discover there was a looonng line. As I wheeled my cart around to head to its end the woman in line next to me invited me to park my cart in the line in front of her because I had few items. I glanced at the woman behind her and the man behind the second woman and both of them waved their hands in approval. Instead of 25th in line this put me 7th. When I got to be third in line a couple who hadn't been in line came through the store to the left of the line and immediately went to an open register causing the line-waiting person headed toward that register to get back in line to the quiet groans of those still in line.

I stepped out of the line, walked over to the couple and quietly and politely said, "Excuse me, there is a line," 

To which the husband, after gently grabbing his wife's shoulder and saying, "Don't worry I've got this," then walked up to me with his face maybe three inches (7.6 cms ) from mine and began to yell profanely and insult me with words I cannot post in the forum without violating the tou, "You emming effingas#@$%@   0^&$(& br3  08youbr3=  jfo2hy0rc0p bald *&%&(%, smelly &*(%($#!!!!!!" 

And I took a deep calming breath, let him finish his tirade and then said, "I don't find your size, the loudness, the profanity, or the insults intimidating. I'm just letting you know there is a line," and then, turning to point out the line again I realized the line had moved on to the point where my turn had occurred and my cart was sitting without someone to push it (me ) and I was the one now holding up the line so I returned to my cart just as a store employee pointed out an empty register to which I could proceed (right next to the line-ignoring couple with the still-ranting man. He ranted the whole time his wife canned their items. 

I am in no way responsible for that man's thoughts, emotions, choices, or behaviors. 
Neither am I in any way intimidated by anything about him. 

I wish I could say all of my thoughts were godly but they weren't. I did consider punching that man in the face and I did imagine how that my play out win or lose (no one wins that fight ) and I considered quoting a relevant scripture imagining him either embarrassed and repentant of more-enraged and mocking, and I imagined myself telling him I find bullying cowardly. So when I read "endless correct" is abusive knowing there have been many occasions when we've had positive exchanges, many occasions when I personally have liked and otherwise affirmed your posts, and many, many, many occasions where words that words I didn't write have been put into my posts, and many occasions when I have been openly insulted..... I also know that's not a me problem. It's a log versus speck problem and out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and the heart is deceitful above all else and no human can understand it, not even psychologists . 

And yet judgment starts in-house with oneself.

 

 

 

So everyone abusing Romans 14:4, James 4:12, and 1 Peter 4:17 as a defense is not addressing the truth or the relevant matter. The far away judge is always first one's own self, Kelly. Respite from the demands of a broken son won't be found in Worthy ignoring oneself and criticizing others for things they never said. This was a simple matter and a single word and a willing heart would have changed everything. I am not anyone's judge even if they feel judged, correction is not abuse, and what I posted about Calvinists is true and correct. I happen to think highly of you and it is astonishing to be told my words to that effect are false. 

The bully rarely recognizes himself. 

Not even when given a mirror or shown the video. 

Start with yourself. 

 

 

What have I to do with you?

 

[Arrabon]

55 minutes ago, Josheb said:

Normally I'd just walk away and I will return to that practice having read this morning's response. 

@Josheb my dear brother.

When you both come back to this conversation, come back in a Christ centered spirit of love for one another, and seek to uplift one another, to edify in love, with a spirit of unity and harmony.

Love is the kindest Gift we can give to another - believer or not. Just ask God.

Romans 13:8-10

Love Fulfills the Law

8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

1 Corinthians 13

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails"

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Arrabon

[Kelly2363]

16 minutes ago, Arrabon said:

@Josheb my dear brother.

When you both come back to this conversation, come back in a Christ centered spirit of love for one another, and seek to uplift one another, to edify in love, with a spirit of unity and harmony.

Love is the kindest Gift we can give to another - believer or not. Just ask God.

Romans 13:8-10

Love Fulfills the Law

8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

 

Brother, I will come back if or when it seems right to do so. And I will NOT be coming back in a false spirit nor in the fear of Men or Moderators. Your semblance of a claim to the love of God is fast coming to an end and you would do well to ask God. The church has systemically abused millions of its own members and brought the name of Christ into disrepute in almost every nation. But no more a Nation - that is an abomination in our time - is there - than the USA. What this OP has demonstrated is just how utterly false is that predication of a people who have laboured for property and prosperity and despised those who are in Christ by false means. It is a sickness that has spread into every part of the world - so it is a sickness that is seen in this forum in those who are found in its four corners. 

Do not grieve for me, brother, I care not how I am treated - and that must be very clear already. It is the name of Christ and the glory of the Father that should concern you. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Kelly2363
National to Nation

[David1701]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:20 PM, Amigo42 said:

The more I learn about the historic and cultural context in which the Bible was written, the more I realize that we really don't know as much as we think.

What if people will be in heaven who we thought would not be like some Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus?  This might seem heretical, but what if people are saved by the blood even if they don't realize it.  There are people who live righteous lives up to the knowledge they have.  Yes, Jesus is the only way.  However, the patriarchs did not know Jesus such as Moses, David, etc. Yet, these people are saved.  This is food for thought.

To get back to the OP, and away from all the personal stuff, by some posters, in recent posts...

Those who believe in false religion (it doesn't matter which false religion) are idolaters, who believe and profess lies about God and Jesus Christ.  Such people are not saved, and will not be saved, unless they repent and believe in Jesus Christ.

One example, from many, is that Muslims do not believe that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh; they do not believe that he is the Son of God, nor do they believe that salvation is by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ.  They believe that Jesus was only a prophet, and supposedly inferior to Mohammed at that.

As I posted above, this makes them idolaters and liars.  They reject the real Lord Jesus Christ, for an insulting parody of Jesus that they have invented.  Such false religion makes them more guilty, rather than less.

Here is what Jesus says:

John 12:48 (WEB) He who rejects me, and doesn’t receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day. 

[Hopefully]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

***the scripture says (and I am wondering if you have heard about it) that God have left the sins of the people without the Law unpunished.

No I haven’t heard of that. I think the scripture I posted answers what happens to people who have not heard the gospel, but eventually the gospel will be preached to all and then the end will come.

[David1701]

10 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

No I haven’t heard of that. I think the scripture I posted answers what happens to people who have not heard the gospel, but eventually the gospel will be preached to all and then the end will come.

Rom. 2:12 (WEB) For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Not having heard the law does not save anyone from eternal punishment.  Everyone has gone against his conscience, even if he has not heard of the law of Moses.

Salvation is only by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ.  There is only one way of salvation.

Edited October 7, 2021 by David1701

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Hopefully said:

No I haven’t heard of that. I think the scripture I posted answers what happens to people who have not heard the gospel, but eventually the gospel will be preached to all and then the end will come.

I am not sure where does it say in the scriptures how Jesus Christ is going to Judge them...and what he is going to do with them in the presence of everyone. 

Which scriptures is that? Why I do not see it...

Romans 3:25, NIV: "God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood--to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--"

PS

John 12:48 (WEB) He who rejects me, and doesn’t receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day. 

The message in the above scripture is about people who have heard the Gospel and not about people who have never heard the Gospel...

To be OP relevant one needs to distinguish between the people who have heard the Gospel and die and about the people who die without having heard the Gospel...

The OP is about the people who die without having the chance to refused faith in Jesus Christ.   

Can you post any scriptures about them? 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Hopefully]

3 hours ago, David1701 said:

Not having heard the law does not save anyone from eternal punishment.  Everyone has gone against his conscience, even if he has not heard of the law of Moses.

This is what the verse says. Conscience. I don’t know guys I just believe the Bible and that’s what the Bible says about those who have never heard the gospel. The verse ends with its part of the good news told and it’s good news to me even though it doesn’t apply to me because I have heard and I do believe.

[Hopefully]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Which scriptures is that? Why I do not see it...

“People who have the law and those who have never heard of the law are all the same when they sin. People who don’t have the law and are sinners will be lost. And, in the same way, those who have the law and are sinners will be judged by the law. Hearing the law does not make people right with God. They will be right before him only if they always do what the law says. Those who are not Jews don’t have the law. But when they naturally do what the law commands without even knowing the law, then they are their own law. This is true even though they don’t have the written law. They show that in their hearts they know what is right and wrong, the same as the law commands, and their consciences agree. Sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done wrong, and this makes them guilty. And sometimes their thoughts tell them that they have done right, and this makes them not guilty. All this will happen on the day when God will judge people’s secret thoughts through Jesus Christ. This is part of the Good News that I tell everyone.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:12-16‬ 

 

im not speaking on those who reject Christ this verse is for those who never heard.