What if others will be in heaven?

[Kelly2363]

2 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The people who died in ignorance of the Gospel they will be given the chance to hear the Gospel after they have died. 

And then they will appear before the Throne of Jesus Christ to be judged according to their faith. 

Whether they believe or have refused to believe. 

Those who have believe their sins are under the blood of Jesus Christ and they can enter Heaven because Heaven belongs to Jesus Christ. 

This will not be the first time the Gospel was preached to the dead. 

The first time the dead were offered to have their sins put under the blood of Jesus Christ was right after the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. 

When Jesus Christ was descended to the place of the dead and beginning with Abraham and his descendants Jesus Christ preached the Gospel to them before he continued to preach the Gospel the forgiveness of sins in his blood to everyone who had died before him in the world of the dead because Jesus Christ died for the sins of all the people in the world.

So everyone in the world has the God given right to have the chance to put their sins under the blood of Jesus Christ before they appeared before him to be judge according to having believe or having refuse to believe.  

That seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine. 

[appy]

3 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

That seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine. 

It is indeed a false teaching from the roman catholic church. The doctrine of purgatory says a person can continue on with a sinful life, because after he/she dies, they will be given a second chance to repent. The bible says otherwise and is always telling in both the old and new testaments to avoid sinful lifestyles, actions and behaviors while we are alive on earth, and seek God during our life time.

No where in scripture does it teach that people can continue in sin. Or wait till we die. We can not wait to repent in the next life. That isn't what the bible says. Its says to repent, that means turn from sin while there is time. Meaning time on earth. Preaching is only effective when we are alive on earth physically.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus. At no time in the story was the rich man given the opportunity to hear the gospel and repent after death. Because if that were true, then the rich man would NOT have been in a place of torment. He wasn't able to avoid his fate. He was also told that for his brothers to be able to avoid the same fate, they had the writings from Moses and the prophets to listen to and heed. Scripture is written to people who are alive on earth.

All mankind will be judged past and present, because even though they don't know about Jesus, or what he has done for us on the cross, they have knowledge of God's presence, and do have a moral code that they know they are breaking; but chose to exchange what they know to be the truth, for a lie.

The bible says all are without excuse, NOT because they didn't hear the gospel, but because they had sinned. The bible says All have sinned. And it is sin that separates us from God. Not ignorance.

Hebrews 9:27
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

 

[Your closest friendnt]

3 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

That seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine. 

I appreciate the fact that you have read the post and you have responded. 

I don't think so that you are suggesting that this have to be decided by vote.

And I am glad that we do not live in the middle ages from ninth to sixteen century. 

If you could please say something that can show a possible departure from the truth. 

Let's talk about what is the truth. 

a) Is it not the truth that Jesus  Christ has died for the forgiveness for the sins of the whole world.  For all mankind beginning from Adam and everyone who had died before the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross and everyone who lived in the whole world at that time and everyone who will be born there after. 

Where do you find the contradiction to the truth in the above statement? 

PS

We are not discussing doctrines of any group or any denomination but the truth in scriptures.

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Your closest friendnt

[Kelly2363]

44 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I appreciate the fact that you have read the post and you have responded. 

I don't think so that you are suggesting that this have to be decided by vote.

And I am glad that we do not live in the middle ages from ninth to sixteen century. 

If you could please say something that can show a possible departure from the truth. 

Let's talk about what is the truth. 

a) Is it not the truth that Jesus  Christ has died for the forgiveness for the sins of the whole world.  For all mankind beginning from Adam and everyone who had died before the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross and everyone who lived in the whole world at that time and everyone who will be born there after. 

Where do you find the contradiction to the truth in the above statement? 

PS

We are not discussing doctrines of any group or any denomination but the truth in scriptures.

 

I will respond to your comment - but I have to tell you that I am not an apologist and so I am unlikely to speculate on what is truth in a narrative diction. Neither is it likely that citing Scripture as one flashes a sword will accomplish anything at all other than to set the Word at variance with itself. That does seem to be the ambition of some brethren - And the likely benefit of that to those brethren that narrate false teachings - be that narratively or else in a semblance of citing the Scripture - is that they are looking to make an escape for themselves. That may seem harsh to say it - yet that is the effect I have witnessed many times when someone says to me that they don't want to discuss doctrines of any group but the truth of Scripture. 

So in that meaning you will have to tell me whether you are a prophet of God and have it that God has confirmed this to you by reason of asking Him when he gave you revelations of Scripture and visions and dreams and a conformed speech that does not corrupt those things. But whether you answer that or not I will answer your request and post a few Scriptures that give credence to your direction to uphold the sense of your claim in your now emboldened point a) above. That way you can lead me and so if you find yourself in the pit - it will be a pit of your own making. Agreed?

Edited October 5, 2021 by Kelly2363
Spelling

[Your closest friendnt]

28 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

I will respond to your comment - but I have to tell you that I am not an apologist and so I am unlikely to speculate on what is truth in a narrative diction. Neither is it likely that citing Scripture as one flashes a sword will accomplish anything at all other than to set the Word at variance with itself. That does seem to be the ambition of some brethren - And the likely benefit of that to those brethren that narrate false teachings - be that narratively or else in a semblance of citing the Scripture - is that they are looking to make an escape for themselves. That may seem harsh to say it - yet that is the effect I have witnessed many times when someone says to me that they don't want to discuss doctrines of any group but the truth of Scripture. 

So in that meaning you will have to tell me whether you are a prophet of God and have it that God has confirmed this to you by reason of asking Him when he gave you revelations of Scripture and visions and dreams and a conformed speech that does not corrupt those things. But whether you answer that or not I will answer your request and post a few Scriptures that give credence to your direction to uphold the sense of your claim in your now emboldened point a) above. That way you can lead me and so if you find yourself in the pit - it will be a pit of your own making. Agreed?

Are you withdrawing then your accusatory statement in your previous post.

" that seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine"

or are you considering of doing that? 

If not then fill in the blanks and tell why you think it is so. 

"It seems" it includes that I it is not quite sure, still thinking about that. 

It stills needs to be examined. 

It will be a constructive discussion and relevant scripture base. 

Please show cause as to why you had to make those statements.  What did you consider before you made that statement, if you consider something or you made the statements first and you reserved the right how to establish it later on.

Was this statement made on preliminary thoughts? While seeking the proof to establish that statement or it was as a result of having the proof at hand and then thej accusatory statements are made.

Please show proof. 

Show proof that Jesus Christ did not died for the forgiveness of the sins of everyone who was ever born. 

Refute the fact that God has given us only one Savior for the whole world.

If not please withdraw your statement. 

Contradiction implies a contradiction against the truth....and against doctrine implies against a truth doctrine....please refrain of posting words like "false teachers and the likes which can imply to the person you are conversing with. That is not allowed by the cited...it is about the message and you have not proven anything is false to begin with...rather looking for sympathisers to say we are many. 

Please establish that something is not correct so to lead the other to correction if it is so. 

No one is a false prophet because he may have said something that may not be so. 

No one have said anything about the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins and that God made him the Judge of all mankind.

Not only his own as it was in the old testament but the Judge of all the people of the world...

Every knee shall bow down to him. 

[Kelly2363]

11 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Are you withdrawing then your accusatory statement in your previous post.

" that seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine"

or are you considering of doing that? 

If not then fill in the blanks and tell why you think it is so. 

"It seems" it includes that I it is not quite sure, still thinking about that. 

It stills needs to be examined. 

It will be a constructive discussion and relevant scripture base. 

Please show cause as to why you had to make those statements.  What did you consider before you made that statement, if you consider something or you made the statements first and you reserved the right how to establish it later on.

Was this statement made on preliminary thoughts? While seeking the proof to establish that statement or it was as a result of having the proof at hand and then thej accusatory statements are made.

Please show proof. 

Show proof that Jesus Christ did not died for the forgiveness of the sins of everyone who was ever born. 

Refute the fact that God has given us only one Savior for the whole world.

If not please withdraw your statement. 

Contradiction implies a contradiction against the truth....and against doctrine implies against a truth doctrine....please refrain of posting words like "false teachers and the likes which can imply to the person you are conversing with. That is not allowed by the cited...it is about the message and you have not proven anything is false to begin with...rather looking for sympathisers to say we are many. 

Please establish that something is not correct so to lead the other to correction if it is so. 

No one is a false prophet because he may have said something that may not be so. 

No one have said anything about the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins and that God made him the Judge of all mankind.

Not only his own as it was in the old testament but the Judge of all the people of the world...

Every knee shall bow down to him. 

Apart from reacting to the term "pit" I would have thought that you would have been set to agree with the terms I made in response to thanking me for commenting "That seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine."

I even used the expression seems like to qualify a non accusatory tense. Now you are telling me that I have accused you and that I am seeking to garner support. 

Just to be clear - I don't have a least care who supports me and anyone who wants to had better be ready to walk on the edge of a ravine if they do. 

As to withdrawing my comment as herein repeated - why would I do that? Or perhaps I should ask why would you believe that I would do that?

What I said was "I will answer your request and post a few Scriptures that give credence to your direction to uphold the sense of your claim in your now emboldened point a) above."

That is precisely what I will do. When I said it I had already thought it and when I thought it I already knew what I would post. So if that seems a little too confident then lead me on with your own teachings and I will uphold the credence of what you say Scripturally. Then if you find yourself in the pit - that will be of your own making. 

We are not in a classroom and neither a court. The only thing to avoid is acrimony and personal attacks. 

When I said, "That seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine"  to your original claims regarding judgement of God I simply wrote what I intended to write and have not changed my mind. You thanked me for responding. Now you have cited your point a) and appear to not be able to accept my offer to post Scripture in a semblance of agreement to that preposition - and thereafter- rather than always expressing a narrative meaning that almost always goes beyond the citation. 

Are you a prophet? If not then wherein will you take your confidence when your words inflect a false teaching that will lead men into a lapsed walk?

Come to the mark and make your own points and your own claims and be met prophetically in the way.

Rhomphaeam

[Your closest friendnt]

37 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

Apart from reacting to the term "pit" I would have thought that you would have been set to agree with the terms I made in response to thanking me for commenting "That seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine."

I even used the expression seems like to qualify a non accusatory tense. Now you are telling me that I have accused you and that I am seeking to garner support. 

Just to be clear - I don't have a least care who supports me and anyone who wants to had better be ready to walk on the edge of a ravine if they do. 

As to withdrawing my comment as herein repeated - why would I do that? Or perhaps I should ask why would you believe that I would do that?

What I said was "I will answer your request and post a few Scriptures that give credence to your direction to uphold the sense of your claim in your now emboldened point a) above."

That is precisely what I will do. When I said it I had already thought it and when I thought it I already knew what I would post. So if that seems a little too confident then lead me on with your own teachings and I will uphold the credence of what you say Scripturally. Then if you find yourself in the pit - that will be of your own making. 

We are not in a classroom and neither a court. The only thing to avoid is acrimony and personal attacks. 

When I said, "That seems like a contradiction and a mistaken doctrine"  to your original claims regarding judgement of God I simply wrote what I intended to write and have not changed my mind. You thanked me for responding. Now you have cited your point a) and appear to not be able to accept my offer to post Scripture in a semblance of agreement to that preposition - and thereafter- rather than always expressing a narrative meaning that almost always goes beyond the citation. 

Are you a prophet? If not then wherein will you take your confidence when your words inflect a false teaching that will lead men into a lapsed walk?

Come to the mark and make your own points and your own claims and be met prophetically in the way.

Rhomphaeam

Everything ok then, I was not comfortable with the word I used, I thought it was to strong, I need to be careful that was not correct word...

Let's get to the point then and do what we are supposed to do discuss the issues at hand.  

God bless 

[Your closest friendnt]

5 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I don't think that's wholly correct and I'm not sure it speaks to the author's concerns but I do think that is better discussed in the Soteriology board. Where'd you get the premise people will be given the chance to hear the gospel after they die? What do you do with Hebrews 9:27? Just asking. Just curious for the moment. Not interested in exploring the details in detail but might be worth an op in the right board. 

Hebrews 9:27 KJV 

²⁷ And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

I never said anything that might lead anyone to think that I said something against the truth of the statement of the scripture above, this is to clarify my position in this matter.  

[Kelly2363]

a) Is it not the truth that Jesus  Christ has died for the forgiveness for the sins of the whole world.  For all mankind beginning from Adam and everyone who had died before the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross and everyone who lived in the whole world at that time and everyone who will be born there after.

37 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Let's get to the point then and do what we are supposed to do discuss the issues at hand.  

So the point a) is the point and other than your direction will not be made into another point narratively and neither will I countenance utilising Scripture myself in such a way that sets the Word of God at variance with itself. I do of course accept that there are seeming paradoxical truths in the Scripture and handling them is likely where most of our problems arise.

As to @Josheb and his latter comment about this topic being better served in the Soteriology forum then I would agree if I were answering your claim to second chance salvation. - however, I can see that whilst your comment that directed these exchanges was a matter of express salvation - it is the broader reality that was inferred in the OP original comment that is likely better answered by also seeing that it was a question of mistaken salvation because it was speculatively expressed. Your own comment is not a speculation. It is an emphatic claim - by which I mean your point a) comment.

So to point a)

The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” John 12:32

For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. Colossians 1:19-20

First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension. 1 Timothy 2:1-8

No doubt there are many other Scriptures that infer a sense of what you have said in your point a) as being truthful. 

a) Is it not the truth that Jesus  Christ has died for the forgiveness for the sins of the whole world.  For all mankind beginning from Adam and everyone who had died before the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross and everyone who lived in the whole world at that time and everyone who will be born there after.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Kelly2363
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[Your closest friendnt]

20 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I don't think that's wholly correct and I'm not sure it speaks to the author's concerns but I do think that is better discussed in the Soteriology board. Where'd you get the premise people will be given the chance to hear the gospel after they die?

 

The OP raised the issues at hand when he made statements about the people who did not hear the Gospel that it is no prudent to have  them appear before Jesus Christ when they do not have in them neither the faith nor the denial in them. 

This is it Jesus Christ cannot make the decision that they have refused to accept his offer to have their sins put under his blood. 

Because they were never informed about him that he died for the forgiveness of their sins.  

And this is because many have told the OP that they are not saved and that they are damn even though they have not refused to believe.