The Need for a Future Millennium

[DeighAnn]

IS IT EVER TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT

THAT THE KINGDOM WAS SPOKEN OF AS ARRIVING AND AS HAVING ARRIVED AND DESCRIBED IN THOSE TERMS AS WAS APPROPRIATE AT THAT TIME

AND THE LANGUAGE SUBJECT AND TENSE CORRECT IN THAT LIGHT WHICH WAS THEN

BUT WITH ITS CHANGE, WHEN THE KING AND KINDOM WERE REJECTED, BEING TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT in searching out the truth? 

 If tenses are going to be used as the basis for the truth then the entire events it must also be taken into consideration of the TRUTH as they play a major part in rendering the actual truth and so we can't rely on verb tenses alone.  

Which is probably written all wrong but HOPEFULLY THE VERY WISE AND EDUCATED CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT I AM TRYING TO PUT FORTH EVEN WHEN IT IS DONE IN CAPITOL LETTERS AND GOES AGAINST CURRENT BELIEFS AS THE ONLY THING THAT SHOULD MATTER TO ANY OF US IS MAKING SURE EVERYONE HAS ON THE GOSPEL ARMOR  AND ISN'T GOING TO BE DECEIVED BECAUSE IT ISN'T BEING ADDRESSED IN FAVOR OF 'BEING RIGHT RIGHT NOW'.  


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[Retrobyter]

9 hours ago, Josheb said:

Who here does not already know that fact?

Hi, Josheb.

Well, the way you were blaming Darbyism for everything, it seemed as though you were lumping premillennialism in general within it! Just reminding all that Darby's philosophies came out of premillennialism, not the reverse.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

That's not an answer to the question asked. 

 

• Posted 11 hours ago
   

Who here does not already know that fact?

Well, since you asked this question, and since you're expecting an answer to this question, I believe the answer would be "anyone who hasn't studied out the history of premillennialism within the churches, and amillennialists who discount premillennialism because of reasons, such as 'figurative language in texts about visions,' etc." 

 

(Please forgive the labeling on the window above. Something I did wrong in the cut-and-paste process.)

Edited November 6, 2021 by Retrobyter

[AandW_Rootbeer]

17 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Alive.

If you will allow me to answer, I can give you Scripture:

They won't ENJOY the Messiah's reign! They will be ready for a change!

We have Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 and we have David's words in Psalm 2:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:

(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 (3) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. (But when he saith, "all things are put under him," it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.) 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

This passage is speaking about this Millennial period. His enemies will be "subdued!" They will be "put down!" That speaks of conflict, not "enjoyment."

Psalm 2:1-12 (KJV)

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD (YHWH), and against his anointed (His Messiah), saying,

3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us!"

4 He that sitteth in the heavens (YHWH) shall laugh: the Lord (the Messiah) shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he (YHWH) speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion! 7 I will declare the decree:

"'the LORD (YHWH) hath said unto me (the Messiah), "Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel!"'

10 "Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little! Blessed are all they that put their trust in him!"

The Kingdom of God within the Millennium-without-haSatan will NOT be a time of peace and enjoyment for everybody! Only those within His Kingdom who accepted His rulership with welcome will have peace and enjoy His Kingdom.

Those who are subdued, either by being trapped into no other decision or by a forceful takeover, will not be happy about it!

How did Yeshua` picture His kingdom in the Parable about the Wheat and the Tares?

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43 (KJV)

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying,

"The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him,

"'Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?'

28 "He said unto them,

"'An enemy hath done this.'

"The servants said unto him,

"'Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?'

29 "But he said,

"'Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
...

36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying,

"Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field."

37 He answered and said unto them,

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 
38 The field is the world (world-system);
the good seed are the children of the kingdom;
but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world (age);
and the reapers are the angels. 

40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age). 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

So, even internally to the Kingdom of the Messiah, there will be those who "offend" and those who will "do iniquity." However, they won't be removed from His Kingdom until the Great White Throne Judgment. Then, they will be thrown into the Fire of the Lake of Fire and Sulfur.

I side with the Ancient Hebrews on this:

Satan is Bound for a period of time (1,000 years)

The People on Earth continue having Children

After a couple Generations, No One is thinking about Satan because he is Bound

By the time Satan is LOOSED, there could have been 30 Generations

By Logic Alone, how Familiar do you think Generations 10 through 30 will be with that Satan exists even though they [see Nothing] that tells them he is Real and will be Loosed and will Deceive them?

 

When Satan is Loosed, those People won't understand what he is, what sin is, what being against God is [there is No Rebellion (God has beheaded Judges from Tribulation), nothing that is going against God) during this Period.

 

Satan will be able to easily Deceive Generations 20 through 30, which WHOM are removed from the Reality Satan even exists!

 

The Bible shows a Clear Picture of this:

 

2 And he laid hold of the dragon, that old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

3 and threw him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be completed; and after this he must be loosed for a little while.

 

7 And when the thousand years shall have been completed, Satan shall be loosed from his prison,

8 and shall go out [[to deceive]] the nations that are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to bring them together to battle: the number of these is as the sand of the sea.

^

the number of these is as the sand of the sea.

^

There are Your Generations 20 through 30!

Edited November 6, 2021 by AandW_Rootbeer

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

...The moment that happened you know I know, I know you know, you know I know you know and I know you know I know you know.  

Outstanding. I'm reminded of the "had had" grammatical puzzle from English comp.

James, while John had had "had," had had "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher. 

Back on track, being relatively familiar with Dispensational Premillennialism, I know the enormous influence Darby has had upon a modern iteration which bears no resemblance to the premillennialism espoused by some noteworthy saints of the early Church. Yes, some: premillennialism was not universal by any means. 

Josh has identified a key feature of Disp. Premil. which I found outrageous, and that is a works-based salvation coexisting with salvation in Jesus Christ by grace, for it is by grace we are saved, and not works so we might boast. This admixture was the red flag which spurred me onward to search the scriptures to see if this were true. Of course it isn't. 

The blood of animals accomplishes nothing! The perfect sacrifice, our Lord Jesus Christ, is all in all. There is no sacrifice greater nor more excellent than His. So...

I do indeed know that you know, that I know that you know that I know, and others know that we know that we know that they know. You know? 
 

[AandW_Rootbeer]

22 hours ago, Josheb said:

The answer is "No one." No one here does not already know the history

And yet, some believe the Catholic Regime created the Mill Reign theory when it was the Ancient Hebrews in 700 B.C.

 

So, I DISAGREE, with the Claim, No one here does not already know the history, KNOWING that CURRENTLY many are Following the Incorrect beliefs the Mill Reign was started and made up by the RCC!

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by AandW_Rootbeer

[AandW_Rootbeer]

So, I DISAGREE, with the Claim, No one here does not already know the history, KNOWING that CURRENTLY many are Following the Incorrect beliefs the Mill Reign was started and made up by the RCC!

 

And that False Belief has led to a wrong Interpretation of 70 A.D., AoD, Daily Sacrifice.

 

So, I absolutely DISAGREE with this Statement, "The answer is "No one." No one here does not already know the history," because it is Obviously Clear ((THEY DO NOT KNOW)) the Factual History!!

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Outstanding. I'm reminded of the "had had" grammatical puzzle from English comp.

James, while John had had "had," had had "had had"; "had had" had had a better effect on the teacher. 

Hi, Marthoner.

Out standing in a CORN field, you mean! Word play like this works better if one has a way of writing inflections in speech some way that determines HOW something is said.

It's better to say things that are intelligible rather than clever.... IF one is trying to be intelligible!

I've dealt with these word plays since elementary school, when I learned the sentence, "It's strange how much you have to know before you know how little you know."

7 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Back on track, being relatively familiar with Dispensational Premillennialism, I know the enormous influence Darby has had upon a modern iteration which bears no resemblance to the premillennialism espoused by some noteworthy saints of the early Church. Yes, some: premillennialism was not universal by any means. 

Josh has identified a key feature of Disp. Premil. which I found outrageous, and that is a works-based salvation coexisting with salvation in Jesus Christ by grace, for it is by grace we are saved, and not works so we might boast. This admixture was the red flag which spurred me onward to search the scriptures to see if this were true. Of course it isn't. 

The blood of animals accomplishes nothing! The perfect sacrifice, our Lord Jesus Christ, is all in all. There is no sacrifice greater nor more excellent than His. So...

I do indeed know that you know, that I know that you know that I know, and others know that we know that we know that they know. You know? 
 

Clever again, although unintelligible.

The truth is that NO ONE is "saved" or ever has been "saved" (justified by God) any differently than by God's grace, through faith, and by blood, whether by the blood of sacrifices in anticipation of the Messiah's Sacrifice, or directly by the blood of the Messiah.

It is NOT OF US! It is NOT ABOUT US OR WHAT WE DID. It's ALL about what the Messiah accomplished, or rather what God His Father accomplished through His Messiah, on the cross.

It's important for a Christian to understand that the animal sacrifices were collectively a PICTURE of what the Messiah Yeshua` would do in the future.

That being said, it may SEEM to be works-based for animal sacrifices to be offered in a literal Temple in the future, but that's not the case. I'm not oblivious to the fact that some Jews may take such a view, but it was not true in the Old Testament, and it won't be true in the future as predicted by the prophecies of the Old Testament.

The thing to remember is that this is AFTER the First General Resurrection! Not only will Yeshua` the Messiah Himself be there, but there will also be all of the Old Testament saints! David will be there! Shlomoh will be there! All of the prophets will be alive again and present! All of the priests, from Aharown ("Aaron") on down will be resurrected and be there to lead in this joyous restoration!

Can't you imagine how wonderful it will be to see the completion?! Yeshua` shall be standing there, with the wounds in His hands and His feet, and all of the people will be present to offer the sacrifices, tying the past to the present! Reality will set in, and the tears will flow as they all realize the representation and the reality together!

And, throughout the first 1,000 years of Yeshua`s reign, there will be new people coming into His Kingdom, many voluntarily, having personally witnessed the character and the beauty of the King, and they, too, will join in the sacrifices and discover how the Old is reflected the New and how the New fulfills the Old.

If anyone had the least inkling of thinking their works did any good, how many voices would instantly correct their thinking?! The singing that would accompany the worship in the Temple will absorb their thoughts and correct their thinking.

Regardless how you want to deny this scenario, it is written that God will DEMAND sacrifices in the future reign of the Messiah when the Land has been re-apportioned to His family, the children of Israel. That is undeniable. And, one would do well to subject himself to the will of the Father.

[Retrobyter]

55 minutes ago, Josheb said:

And yet modern-futurism teaches something different and contrary to these truths. 

Hi, Josheb.

What do I have to do with what you call "modern-futurism?"

[AandW_Rootbeer]

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

Double-negative. It mean everyone already knows because no one does not know. And you, AandW, we intentionally excluded from the knowing group. Roy, David, Justin, Marathon, DeighAnn and I have all discussed this matter numerous times and one or many of us have at various times posted the history. Furthermore, the ECFs precede the RCC. The RCC is irrelevant to the points being made: 1) premillennialism goes all the way backto the ECFs (before the RCC) and 2) that history is a justification for holding premillennial views today. Not only do those of us who have discussed this numerous times know the history we use that history. 

What is in dispute is the premise Darbyism, or modern-futurism, goes back to the ECFs. IT DOES NOT. That too is a fact of history. 

More to the point of your post, though, it is thoroughly inconsistent to complain about an eschatological view formalized in the RCC and then try and teach an eschatology that was unheard of for the first 19 centuries of Christian history and was literally invented by a guy in the mid-1800s based on a hermeneutic he also invented! In other words, he first invented a way of parsing scripture and then he invented and outcome of that invented system. Darby made up his way of looking at scripture and then he made up his own eschatology. Then he taught everyone who would listen his made up method and doctrines. 

So not only is you post a double-negative that agrees with what I posted even as it seeks to dispute it but the RCC-contempt is hypocritical in light of your own belief in made up stuff. 

Google "Dispensational Premillennialism" and every website you visit that speaks of its origin will plainly state that view begins with Darby. 100% of them. Read any of the teachers of DPism, Scofield, Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, Ice, Vlach - any of them! - and they'll ALL concede DPism was created by John Darby. 

 

He made it up. 

 

So if you're going to complain about made up stuff then start with yourself. 

I don't follow anything associated with Darby!

You ASSUME way too Much!!