What in your opinion should be the right response?

[teddyv]

10 hours ago, Josheb said:

Thank you. And how long were you engaged? Still married? How long?

 

At the end of that year of dating after which you'd gotten to know this person well enough to commit to an engagement, what could a friend have said to you at that time that might have caused you to not marry your wife? 

We were engaged for about 9 months prior to marriage. We considered marrying several months earlier but that did not work out due to logistical concerns more than anything else. No big deal. We've been married now 18 years without any serious challenges to our relationship. I think much of that stems that we both come from the same denominational background and same cultural/traditional background which means we both shared a lot of the same expectations around those big issues surrounding marriage and kids.

As to question 2, if a friend revealed she had been cheating on me or committing criminal acts, that would have been a deal breaker. That said, by then anything that serious would likely have revealed itself. 

[Littlelambseativy]

It's difficult to try to tell someone who is in love not to get closer. My best friend married a divorced man and no amount of explanation of scripture or logic worked. She married and when issues of finance and his family came up, though she was trying to be good to his children, there was the child care and his business that needed her support. She had a good income as a hight school teacher so she cosigned....you get the idea. She regretted her choice to marry but as a christian she stayed.. at cost to her. 

When love comes into play there is not one can say. If it would be a good union, and the choice to leave that person because they have been talked into it and the second choice is misery what do you say then? Tell him to pray about it and and to listen to the voice of God.... otherwise be there for him and support him if things go badly but don't say, "I told you!" Be the friend he needs..

[appy]

I agree that being yoked to an unbeliever is going against scripture. Once an individual is set on marrying an unbeliever, no amount of scripture shown will be appreciated by the recipient unless the individual has second thoughts and is seeking advice. You can certainly try to help the individual but there isn't a guarantee, he will heed your words.

This is an area of advice that most often falls on deaf ears, because of the timing. The best and most appreciated time for folks to receive instruction in this area, is before he or she has an interest in dating. At that point it will be easier to advise against “missionary dating” when the person's head and heart is clear and is not set on anyone.

Paul in scripture when giving advice on marriage issues, points out that there is NO guarantee that the unbeliever in such relationships will become believer's. In spite of what scripture teaches, people in general speaking feel that they have an edge that no one else has and feel that unlike others he or she will be successful at converting the unbeliever once they are married.

1 Corinthians 7:16

How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Paul's instruction in 1 Corinthians 7:39 can also be applied to men seeking to marry or remarry. Not just women.

1 Corinthians 7:39

“but he must belong to the Lord.”

Instead of pointing out that the relationship is against scripture and he is sinning, you might get further by encouraging him give the following more thought, before he goes through with wedding plans and let the Holy Spirit do the convincing him, that this is not the way to go. 

If Christ is his number one priority, the things to ask himself and mull over...... Is she willing at this point in the relationship, before marriage, to pray with him and have a heart for God, and who will want to go to church with him and make decisions by praying and leaning on God. 

If these things are something he would very much like her to share, then it would be better to look further for a relationship with someone that already shares his values and principles, because if she isn't willing to follow his lead concerning his and her relationship with Christ now, before marriage, she is not likely to desire to do so, once the “I do's” are exchanged.

Even though there are such marriages that have remained in spite of the differences, they are NOT without problems. And for every marriage in which an unbeliever becomes a believer there are 100's of others who will not budge.

Most often the believer ends up moving over to the unbeliever's side, hindering the believer's ability to have a deeper and more satisfying relationship with the Lord, which is why scripture teaches us to avoid being unequally yoked to begin with.

[teddyv]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Thanks again. Was my last post read? Given the "by then" of the lengthy dating and 9 month engagement can you feel the knowledge, emotion and willfulness existing at that time that only news of infidelity would/could break? Don't answer what you know now; answer based on what you "knew" back then.  

It is not easy to place myself back then, especially as to how I'd feel. I don't think I am a whole lot different now as then. 

Also, our situation may not fit well with he OP as we were both professing Christians so the idea of unequally yoked does not really apply.

[Marathoner]

2 hours ago, Josheb said:

@SIC, @Saved.One.by.Grace, @walla299, @teddyv, and @Marathoner  Let me clarify my comments and inquiries because I am not suggesting we must or should say nothing.

 

The decision to marry is not one most people come to instantly upon meeting someone and in western countries it is invariably a decision based on a period of time during which we have come to know and be known by the person in a manner no one else knows. There is also an enormous emotional investment and experience that is often extra-rational and invariably based on a set of beliefs about love that the unmarried cannot know. 

This is the context for the inquiry of op!!! 

And we're supposed to be this person's friend. 

These are issues and dynamics I am trying to open up for consideration answering this question because a blunt or legalistic dictating of 2 Cor. 6:14ff will not likely work, and it might well ruin the friendship. 

 

 

Let me run another thought by you all. If we are this marrying-an-outsider person is our friend then it's likely we'll get invited to the wedding and in most Christian weddings the officiant not only askes the two getting married to promise, or vow, or covenant with each other; the officiant also asks those in attendance if they will do all they can to support that couple. In other words, every individual in attendance is asked if they will promise, vow, covenant with the two getting wed. And, lastly, the officiant is present as an agent of God. The couple is not committing to a lifetime of promise solely two each other, but to God also. So too is everyone in the congregation that day. 

So think about the premise of telling a person not to marry and outsider and then showing up on the wedding day and promising to support them after the friendship has been damaged. 

@SIC, I understand the above may not have been on your mind when the op was posted, but are these things not true nonetheless. Do any of us believe God, Paul, 2 Cor. 6 is ignorant of these things? Maybe Paul was; he was not married. The 2 Cor. 6 text does not exist in a vacuum and, as true as it is, it should not be proof-texted. There's more to this inquiry than three sentences in the Bible.

In all fairness my response to you is different than my response to the author of this topic: you are a counselor, which is to say the Lord has appointed you to counsel husbands and wives who seek your aid. You are qualified in these matters and I haven't read anything you've posted that I find reason to disagree with (even though you claim that you erred previously).

I'm like Paul in that I'm not married, so I'm not one to give advice unless it pertains to love, mercy, kindness, patience, and how we are responsible toward brethren and our neighbor. You'll recall my position regarding human needs so I'm not one to approach with regard to marital counseling.  

My own position regarding these matters is nuanced and requires sober discernment. I'm in agreement that we shouldn't say or do nothing; if I am incapable of counseling my brother with gentleness and meekness, then I trust another will approach him. If, however, an unattached brother approaches me asking for advice regarding dating and the like then I know what I would say to him. I doubt many would find this palatable but here it is:

Avoid such things, trusting that the Lord will provide. But then that is what I do, so I avoid judging my brother who desires marriage remembering these things. I am as the Lord called me --- unmarried and free to go where He wills without attachments --- but I understand that this is not His will for us all on this earth. He has given some to be husbands and wives.  

Which brings me full circle. I would not feel comfortable dispensing counsel to my married brother unless this pertains to our overall conduct as followers of the Lamb. What would I do if he sought marital advice?

I'd send him your way. I'm not one to tell a husband or wife what they ought to do (or ought not to do) with regard to marriage. 

 

[David1701]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:01 PM, SIC said:

In your opinion if a believer you know well gets engaged to an unbeliever what should be the right response? 

I am personally of the opinion that the right response would be to show the believer those verses in the bible that speak against marrying an unbeliever and then pray for God to change their heart. After all God's word has power mine don't. 

Some others in church believe that would be 'hitting them on their head with the bible'. 

What do you all think is the best way to respond to a believer you know well getting engaged to an unbeliever? 

 

 

1) Pray about it.

2) If the Lord leads you (i.e. if you are an appropriate person to deal with it) to speak about it with the believer, then you should share what the Bible says about not marrying unbelievers (unequal yoke, etc.), but it needs to be done in the wisdom and love of the Holy Spirit and not in a fleshly way.

3) If possible pray with the believer about it and recommend that the believer speaks to the pastor.

[steve morrow]

HOLISTIC ???

JOB 40:8  wilt thou also disannul my judgement wilt thou condemn  ME  that thou mayest be righteous

 

PSALM 25:5  lead me in thy truth and teach me ---for thou art the  GOD  of my salvation --- on thee do I wait all the day 

JOHN 15:5  I am the vine you are the branches he that ---abideth in me--- and I in him the same bringeth forth much fruit ---for without me -- you can do nothing---

PSALM 119:137  righteous art thou  O LORD  ---and upright are thy judgements---

 

LUKE 8:12  those by the wayside are they that hear then cometh the devil and taketh the word out of their hearts lest they should believe and be saved 

--8:13-- they on the rock are they which when they hear receive the word with joy and these have no root --- which for awhile believe and in time of temptation fall away

--8:14-- and that which fell among thorns are they which when they have heard go forth and are choked ---with cares and riches and pleasures of this life --- and bring no fruit to perfection 

 

--8:15-- but that on the good ground are they --- which in an honest and good heart --- having heard the word keep it --- and bring forth fruit with patience 

 

               ***************************************

JAMES 5:19  brethren if any of you do err from the truth and one convert him 

--5:20-- let him know that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall hide a multitude of sins 

PSALM 7:11  GOD  judgeth the righteous and  GOD  is angry with the wicked ---every day ---

PROVERBS 11:18  the wicked worketh a deceitful work --- but to him that soweth righteousness --- shall be a sure reward

PROVERBS 8:7 for my mouth shall speak truth and wickedness is an abomination to  MY  lips

--8:8-- all -- the words of  MY  MOUTH  are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them 

PSALM 28:5  because they regard not the works of  THE  LORD  nor the operation of his hands --- HE  shall destroy them and not build them up---

               ***************************************

1 CORINTHIANS 2:15  but he that is spiritual ---judgeth all things---yet he himself is judged of --no man--

MATTHEW 7:1  judge not that you be not judged 

JOHN 7:24  judge not according to the appearance ---but judge righteous judgement 

PSALM 50:6 and the heavens shall declare  HIS  righteousness for  GOD  is judge --himself--  selah

ISAIAH 1:27  zion shall be redeemed---with judgement and her converts with righteousness---

 

ISAIAH 54:17 no weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper ---and every tongue that shall rise up against thee --in judgement-- thou shalt condemn--- this is the heritage of the servants of  THE  LORD  and their righteousness is of ---ME  saith  THE  LORD---

 

ISAIAH 8:22  CEASE  YOU  FROM  MAN  WHOSE  BREATH  IS  IN  HIS  NOSTRILS  FOR  WHEREIN  IS  HE  TO  BE  ACCOUNTED  OF 

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[SIC]

58 minutes ago, Kelly2363 said:

 

I know your mind - you have raised so many issues to do with marriage in the last few weeks. But to liken a woman to a prostitute on the pretext of her being an unbeliever is mistaken. 

On the other hand Jesus maternal grandmother (Rahab) was a prostitute before she married into the line of David. Where is the mercy of God in your mind? 

I simply cannot fathom how brethren can be so pious 

All your narrative is to a semblance of a believer obeying the admonishment of Scripture. And misses the natural and reasonable fact of a man choosing to marry whomsoever he is free to marry if free means a man leaving his father and mother and cleaving to his wife so that the two become one flesh. If this were a sister seeking to marry an unbelieving man I would council against it. But not a brother marrying a woman. 

I didn't liken a woman to a prostitute. Please read what I wrote carefully. My point is both are sins because they constitute a disobedience against God's word.

What do you mean mercy of God?  Mercy is given after an act is committed. When a person is enroute to committing a sin it is about warning the person.

And I do not agree that there is any difference between a Christian man marrying an unbeliever and a Christian woman marrying an unbeliever. The commandment 'Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?'(2 Corinthians 6:14) is universal.

[just_abc]

9 hours ago, SIC said:

 And Christians shouldn't be dating an unbeliever in the first place. 

Agreed.

 

8 hours ago, Kelly2363 said:

If this were a sister seeking to marry an unbelieving man I would council against it. But not a brother marrying a woman. 

Sorry but I don't understand why the difference?  It is still considered wrong both ways..  i.e. if it is a Christian marrying a non-Christian?

Thanks.

( sorry.. no offence intended to anyone)

Edited October 11, 2021 by just_abc

[Kelly2363]

5 minutes ago, SIC said:

Btw your first sentence is definitely untrue.

You don't know my mind. You are not God and I have not raised 'many issues to do with marriage' in the last few weeks.

 

But you have raised numerous questions relating to marriage - in regard to leaders of groups marrying one of their group - pastors appointing elders and questioning their age and their lack of children or else having small children - not least your own comments in those questions - and so on. So if I say I know your mind then I am saying what is evident from your own comments. 

In this instant if you cite two prophetic passages of Scripture to answer the fact of a believing man desiring to marry an unbelieving women - then go with your own direction in your own words. No need to be shy about it old bean?