Replacement Theology

[Ovedya]

Seven years??????? Hmmm.....isn;t the Tribualtion supposed to last for seven years??? Then a bumper crop???? \o/

Seven and a half is the popular guestimate

[JesusisGod2]

That is a beautiful illistration of the olive tree. Praise be to God that even nature itself proclaims His glory.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Yod,

While I would agree that we are not "grafted into the jews", this verse makes it pretty clear that Jesus is the root but the "tree" is Israel's promised Kingdom and we have JOINED them.

Would you believe ON THIS we CAN AGREE!!!!

The promise ultimately to Israel is to restore them to "righteousness" or "right standing with God". Their's was the NATION whom God chose to reveal Himself through and indeed the "Kingdom of God" was THEIR'S first BEFORE it was taken from them and given to the Gentiles. Gentiles can only hope to be grafted into the "Kingdom of God" AMONG the branches of the Jews who preceded them. We are indebted to them a great deal and owe it to them to make sure that every Jew alive receive or at least HEAR the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Thank you and God Bless,

Dad Ernie

[George]

Interesting point Yod!

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings WVKieth,

The real question is did God make the promises to the physical or spiritual descendants? That is what I was getting at with my original post (now on page 2).

Romans 11 does not rule out Replacement Theology if "seed" = spiritual descendants!

Well, Romans 11 does indeed rule out Replacement Theology. Paul speaks of a "remnant" of whom he is one, and the "brethren of his flesh" are the Jews that rejected Jesus at his coming. These are the ones who have been made an enemy on account of the Gentiles, for the time being. They remain today only a "remnant" and will continue to be so until "the fulness of the gentiles be come in (to the Kingdom of God)". As Yod has pointed out Gentiles are the wild branches which were grafted in among the "true branches" - which are Israel of the flesh, and of Abraham by "faith".

Take a look at these verses:

Leviticus 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

1 Chron 16:15-18 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; 16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; 17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant, 18 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;

Notice how the "land covenant" is addressed in particular. The Jews were always to have the land of Canaan, but because of their rejection of Christ were dispersed into what is called the Diaspora - scattered among the nations. This is prophesied in Deut 4:26-31, and those verses also reveal WHO will return them to their land and WHEN. That is God shall do it Himself, and it will be AFTER the Great Tribulation in the Last Days, when they repent and accept the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is prophesied through the whole Old Testament. HOWEVER, the Jews currently in the land were brought there by MEN; they have NOT repented and accepted the Gospel; and will once again be dispersed among the nations completely when the Beast brings war against them in the last days. But this return which began in 1948 was prophesied by Jesus in Matt. 24 when He spoke of the "Fig Tree". It would begin to sprout up with new leaves, BUT it never produces any fruit. This is NOT the final fulfullment of the "land covenant" made to Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, but when the Lord comes to reign for the 1,000 years, He will bring with Him ALL His saints, both Jew and Gentile to live and reign with Him for that 1,000 years.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings OneAccord,

Also I believe it means what it says, that ALL Israel will be saved, not just a remnant.

I received my come-uppance a while back when this was "properly" exegeted for me by another poster on another forum. Here is the meaning of the Greek word ALL: (Please note the bolded portion)

3956 pas {pas}

including all the forms of declension; TDNT - 5:886,795; adj

AV - all 748, all things 170, every 117, all men 41, whosoever 31,

everyone 28, whole 12, all manner of 11, every man 11,

no + 3756 9, every thing 7, any 7, whatsoever 6,

whosoever + 3739 + 302 3, always + 1223 3, daily + 2250 2,

any thing 2, no + 3361 2, not tr 7, misc 26; 1243

1) individually

1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things,

everything

2) collectively

2a) some of all types

++++

... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go after

Christ? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."

Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,

little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does

the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" are

used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very

rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are

generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts

-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not

restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...

C.H. Spurgeon from a sermon on Particular Redemption

Please understand, I am still not completely swayed by this argument, but in lieu of the mentioning of the 12 tribes of Israel in Revelation = 144,000, or 12,000 from each tribe, it might appear to be the CORRECT interpretation.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings God-man,

On "olive tree" it reads, "According to the word in Matt. 2:15, "Out of Egypt I called My Son," a quotation from Hosea 11:1, Christ and the real Israel are one entity. When the Gentile believers are grafted into Christ, they are grafted into Israel,

If you have been grafted into Israel then you ARE NOT a part of Christ. Israel is ONLY BRANCHES of the Olive Tree, but NOT the tree itself. The Gospel makes clear that in the NT, the "fig tree" is the nation/peoples of Israel (Jacob). Indeed we are GRAFTED in AMONG the BRANCHES of Jacob, because they were the ones through whom God chose to reveal Himself. When you get down to the nitty-gritty, the Kingdom of God is revealed as the "manifest presence of God", which was first revealed in the "nations" through the Abrahamic Covenant. It was later defined and refined as coming through the line of Isaac, then Jacob, but when the Jews rejected Christ, the KINGDOM OF GOD WAS TAKEN FROM THEM AND GIVEN TO THE GENTILES:

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

That word "nation" above is:

1484 ethnos {eth'-nos}

probably from 1486; TDNT - 2:364,201; n n

AV - Gentiles 93, nation 64, heathen 5, people 2; 164

1) a multitude (whether of men or of beasts) associated or

living together

1a) a company, troop, swarm

2) a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus

2a) the human race

3) a race, nation, people group

4) in the OT, foreign nations not worshipping the true God, pagans,

Gentiles

5) Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians

If you consider "types and shadows", you will discover that the references to Jacob (Israel) is a type of the WORLD (the antitype), and interestingly, the "Levitical Priesthood" is a type of the KINGDOM OF GOD (the antitype).

Another interesting point is that Jesus was NOT made a HIGH PRIEST after the Order of Aaron or the Levites, but AFTER the order of Melchizedek - a GENTILE.

So if you are grafted into ISRAEL, then YOU CANNOT KNOW my HIGH PRIEST.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest yod]

.

[wordsower]

dude......

this is whack.

:LOL: :baa:

Don't know why, that just cracked me up. I need to get out more.

[OneAccord]

... "the whole world has gone after him" Did all the world go after

Christ? "then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan."

Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? "Ye are of God,

little children", and the whole world lieth in the wicked one". Does

the whole world there mean everybody? The words "world" and "all" are

used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very

rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are

generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts

-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not

restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...

What about John 3:16? Is whosoever the same as the 'all' in the all of Israel, following this line of interpretation?

''If you have been grafted into Israel then you ARE NOT a part of Christ. Israel is ONLY BRANCHES of the Olive Tree, but NOT the tree itself. The Gospel makes clear that in the NT, the "fig tree" is the nation/peoples of Israel (Jacob). Indeed we are GRAFTED in AMONG the BRANCHES of Jacob, because they were the ones through whom God chose to reveal Himself.''

Again I would ask, who then, are the branches that were broken off?

"If you consider "types and shadows", you will discover that the references to Jacob (Israel) is a type of the WORLD (the antitype), and interestingly, the "Levitical Priesthood" is a type of the KINGDOM OF GOD (the antitype)."

I tried to start a thread on this one a while back, but it fizzled out. (The difference between Jacob and Israel.)

I realize my questions are all over the board, but I think they all relate........

Great thread, important topic to grasp.