What Can We Learn From The Books Not Included In The Bible??

[Bawb]

Jayne said:

God's inspired word that he has given us is that same today as it was 1000 years ago and longer ago.  Their are NO NEW revelations from God today.  None.  I do not understand why people are not content with the scriptures that God did give us.

Maybe I can give you some insight that would allow you to understand a little better.  "God's" name was changed from YeHoVah to YHWH and then to LORD or "God" over 7000 times in the KJV. I would think it is pretty important to know HIS actually name since it states numerous time in the bible how HIS people call on HIS name in times of trouble and when protection is needed. Also, the insertion of the phrases "Holiday of the Jews" or "Jewish Holiday" in the places where the correct word was YeHoVah or YHWH makes a HUGE difference. "Christians" don't see these true Holy Days of "God" as important. And they now believe them to be Jewish Holidays, so they accept all of the pagan garbage gifted to them by the RCC. But they are SO important! Not only for the past, but present AND the future. There are agendas in the writings and re-writings of the Bible. I will only be satisfied with the truth, not what a publisher/translator with an agenda has put out as "their" truth. I thank YeHoVah for tools like the Strong's Concordance and people such as Nehemia Gordon who have who have found original Hebrew Gospels and are intelligent enough to translate them.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bawb

[debrakay]

@Jayne said "Their are NO NEW revelations from God today.  None.  I do not understand why people are not content with the scriptures that God did give us."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I want to clarify that I am very content with all that God has done for me, allowed me to learn, and taught me as I followed him faithfully for 40 years.  We have been told to seek wisdom and knowledge.

Psalms 119:66 (NIV) - Teach me knowledge and good judgment, for I trust your commands.

Proverbs 2:6 (NIV) - For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding.

2 Peter 1:5 (NIV) - For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge;

Habakkuk 2:14 (NIV) - For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.

There are many Proverbs that talk about increasing in knowledge and wisdom and the foolish who do not go that way.  I do not want to be a fool and not learn all that the Lord wants to teach me.  I do not agree there are no new revelations from Him today.  The Holy Spirit reveals many truths to me as I walk with Him through the days.  Just as there are miracles to witness today, there is knowledge and revelation also taking place in His people.  Many people read self-help books, they read lessons and instructions, they read history and the news of today, they read about parenting, growing old, medical advice, and the list goes on.  People grow in knowledge as they seek it out and learn.  

I have been reading these antique writings (Tobit, Gospel of Mary, The Protevangelion, Infancy of Jesus Christ 1 &2, Nicodemus) and so far the Holy Spirit has not spoken to my spirit that the writings are inspired words of God speaking divine knowledge and wisdom into the hearts and minds of believers today.  So far they seem to be stories of the history of what was happening at the time.  Some of it is pretty far fetched in the terms of what happened, especially in the infancy and childhood of Jesus.  Our Bible today is a compilation of biblical history and instruction but it has never been the only book I have used to seek out history and instruction.  The Holy Spirit is always working in our lives when we allow Him to reveal the secrets and the mysteries of God, even today.

Matthew 13:11 (NIV) - He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

[Bawb]

@debrakay Your signature states that you are fed up with controversy. I can understand that. I am fed up with lies and deception and I know where they have come from (men and in the end HaSatan) . The most important part of the Gospel found in most Bibles is still TRUE (The Good News). But over the centuries as I have said, men with agendas due to their lust for greed and power have polluted most versions of the Word. It has been polluted with purposeful mis-translations, antisemitism and outright lies. I too know some of those who search for knowledge, yet never come to understanding. I understand, I believe when you say "I do not want to be a fool and not learn all that the Lord wants to teach me." I too am thirst for His Word and want to go deeper. So we ask, seek and knock. I want to understand His heart and know Him better.

Have a blessed day Sister!

[debrakay]

@Bawb The older I get the more I understand, as long as we walk this earth, the evil one will continue trying to steal, kill and destroy all of the good The Father wants to teach and instill into His chosen people. It is always up to me what to search, what to understand and what to turn my back on when it comes to my faith and my beliefs.  I do not intend to spend much time on controversial biblical studies but I do find them interesting just as I find archaeology interesting.  I'm just a curious person and not a expert on anything.

Blessings to you also!

[Guest]

Ken Johnson has written books on most of the texts omitted from modern bibles.  I wholeheartedly recommend his books for background on these books before you accept them and accept the translation as accurate suitable for the biblical canon.  Amazon is a good source.

[Tzephanyahu]

Hi @debrakay

Great topic.

On 11/18/2021 at 6:48 PM, debrakay said:

1) Are there some things the Father would like to reveal from these writings in modern times that were available to the believer in ancient times?

I absolutely think so.  For example, the Book of Enoch (quoted in Jude) states at it's opening that it was written for the latter days generation.  And in 2 Esdras (quoted in Matthew), Yahweh instructs the priest Ezra to rewrite the Scripture after the Babylonian Exile.  He states that the Old Testament canon of books were to be made easily available - to the wise and unwise alike, whereas the tens of additional books were to be held back for those seeking out wisdom. 2 Esdras 14:37-48

On 11/18/2021 at 6:48 PM, debrakay said:

2) Why is it that what was considered inspired scripture for people in ancient times was no longer considered scripture by men at various times in the past and removed from the OT and the NT?

There is a long a convoluted history behind how the Word of God has been attacked and chipped away at in the past.  Whether it be from the Jews, believers and even non-believing scholars.  There is simply too much to squeeze into a reasonably sized post.  

However, for now, consider the fact that original 1611 KJV included some apocryphal books.  And, if you and I were having this conversation as recently as the mid 1800s, we would still have these apocryphal books in our canons!  Indeed, as it stands today, some other Biblical canons around the world still have more books that the 66 books of the American Canon. 

Now, imagine if a new Christian movement arose today and wanted to remove Revelation from the Bible - calling it non-inclusive, hateful and even a non-inspired.  Imagine that, despite the kickback from Christians, new revised Bibles started to be printed without Revelation in them.  How many generations do you think it would take before Revelation was shunned entirely?  Expecting by the 2nd or 3rd generation might be ambitious, but what about when you start getting to the 4th and 5th generation?

Therefore, don't let any man, church or scholar tell you what God wants you to know.  Read the books for yourself. The Holy Spirit will guide you as to whether or not these books are inspired. 

His sheep will recognise His voice.

On 11/18/2021 at 6:48 PM, debrakay said:

3) Why should or shouldn't Christians read/study these ancient scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal God's inspired word for us today?

Every Christian should read their 66 canon Bible first and foremost and know it thoroughly well, being comfortable with all the books within, before venturing out into any other reading material.  I'm sure we agree on that.  However, many Christians then go on to read other Christian material to compliment their studies and even spend time reading fiction too.  That's fine.  But what if instead of reading commentaries, devotionals, life guides, study guides and fictional books (which all originate from mere men), you spent that time reading books that claim to be inspired?

If the apocryphal books don't seem inspired to you, that's okay, at least you absorbed any wisdom from them and have an informed opinion on them for future discussions.  BUT, what if you do recognise the Master's voice within them?  What a blessing!  

I speak for myself when I say that reading these books have filled in many topics left uncovered in the Bible, such as where did demons come from, more about what happens when we die, more about the Messiah's return and New Jerusalem and more about the Exodus etc etc.  And so I see a bigger picture than I did before when I just stuck with the 66.

On 11/18/2021 at 6:48 PM, debrakay said:

4) Do we need to seek the Lord and His wisdom in these ancient and forgotten words?

Personally I think so.  I study certain apocryphal books with Scripture with no differentiation. 

Now, not all extra-biblical books seem sound but I would say 90% are - such as the ones found with the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Ethiopian Canon.

Although I would say to stay well clear of any "New Testament apocryphal books".  I'm yet to find one that parallels harmoniously with Scripture.  It seems the Gnostics started to get involved in writing books at this time. 

If you would like a list of books I personally think are perfectly safe to read, just let me know.  I always check if they parallel with Scripture, don't contradict the 66 book canon, and keep the Messiah it His rightful place. 

In summary, if you take anything away from what I have said, let it be this:  Read the apocryphal books over any other Christian literature.  You're far more likely to come away more enlightened and wise than reading anything written by a mere man fresh out of a modern day Biblical Seminary. 

I hope that helps.

Peace.

[Billiards Ball]

On 11/18/2021 at 1:48 PM, debrakay said:

I have always been interested in how and who compiled the Holy Bible into the book we have today.  After doing some research I wanted to hear from the biblical scholars here on Worthy to get more insight as to whether or not reading the Books and Writings that were studied in the past is today, worthy of much time. I do understand there are many different bible versions and many of "lost" books are included in all but the Protestant versions.  I have been a non-denominational believer for over 40 years so I am always leaning on the Holy Spirit to teach me.

1) Are there some things the Father would like to reveal from these writings in modern times that were available to the believer in ancient times?

2) Why is it that what was considered inspired scripture for people in ancient times was no longer considered scripture by men at various times in the past and removed from the OT and the NT?

3) Why should or shouldn't Christians read/study these ancient scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal God's inspired word for us today?

In the Jewish times of Jesus there was the Book of the Law (Torah - 5 books), the Book of the Prophets (Former Prophets 4 volumes, Latter Prophets 3 volumes, the Twelve Minor Prophets 1 book), and the third part was the "Writings" (7 poetic books and 2 other volumes).  There were a total of 24 volumes in the Hebrew Old Testament in Jesus' time, then later, during Greek translation, some of the volumes were divided to make a total of 39 separate books.  It seems like there were a lot of "writings" that were studied and sometimes quoted in ancient Jewish synagogues but were not considered God given inspired scripture according to the final councils.

In the 4th century men decided which books would be included in the New Testament. In 367 Athanasius of Alexandria decided to remove the Didache (or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles), the Shepherd of Hermas, the Apocalypse of Peter, the Epistle of Barnabas and the Epistle of Clement from the New Testament writings leaving a total of the 27 NT books we have today.  I found this quote to explain the reasoning of the time:

"Their eventual exclusion was not because they were regarded as heretical, but because they either lacked apostolic authorship or were thought to be too shallow in spiritual content."

I know there is a lot of historical information about who, what, and why. I probably do not know all of the main facts and I do not always agree with many of the decisions of mankind and often wonder what is at the root of the issue.

I guess my main reason for asking for comments and advice is that in the past there were numerous scriptures studied, inspired words of our Father, Creator, God heard by the hearts and souls of thousands of ancients believers which are no longer put into the minds and hearts of modern believers for the Holy Spirit to reveal.

4) Do we need to seek the Lord and His wisdom in these ancient and forgotten words?

Thank you to all who respond!! 

 

 

The early church needed no canon—the patriarchs passed copies of the letters back and forth, used them, even memorized them, and knew what scriptures were and what false writings (apocrypha) were. When false teachers claimed certain books weren’t included, the councils began to meet to affirm which books were already known to be true, not to “discard some books they didn’t like”. And a "Berean Christian" studies the books for themselves and makes their own decision. However, here are some reasons I do not accept books beyond the 66. These other books:

1) Aren't accepted by the Jewish people

2) Aren't accepted by 99.99% of church sects

3) Do not say, as the Bible says over 6,000 times in the OT alone, "This is the Word of God!", indeed, they often say things like "Here's wisdom my grandfather told me!"

4) Contain teachings that contradict the Bible

5) Contain impious or "dirty" passages that are more sexual or violent in nature than the Bible, which is itself often raw, honest writing

6) Were reluctantly placed in some movements to keep the peace, while adding footnotes like "of unknown origin/veracity"

7) Contain self-contradictory teachings, like Person A disagrees with Person B within the same apocryphal book

8) Shows lack of character: wise Daniel tricking people instead of being an honest witness, the child Jesus strikes a fellow child dead, etc.

9) Do not withstand any type of codes/gematria analysis

[Who me]

On 11/18/2021 at 6:48 PM, debrakay said:

1) Are there some things the Father would like to reveal from these writings in modern times that were available to the believer in ancient times?

What you are saying is:- you do not think that scripture is complete or that it contains all we need to know in order to be saved and live to glorify jesus.

 

Nothing stops anyone from reading these books, but just like when someone has a prophetic word or message, test what you read against scripture.

[debrakay]

Thank you all for the recent responses! 

I have downloaded a copy of the Book of Enoch and have been reading it.  While nothing major jumped out of it into my spirit, I read it with an open mind as a follower of Christ and filled with the Spirit of God.  I am in Chapter 13 now and will finish it one of these days.  I do not feel that it is the word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit, for me to dwell on, so I'm not in any hurry to finish reading it.  

I have also just finished reading the Epistle of Barnabas and found it very interesting as there is so much biblical scripture quoted in it.  It seemed to me to be more of a teaching work and not an inspirational work.  Barnabas was a very valuable disciple and in my research and study about him I found him to be a very holy man, used and inspired by God and filled with the Holy Spirit.  I was more than pleased to read his epistle and hear his recital of biblical scripture. 

I have a Catholic Bible from my 10 years as a practicing Catholic so I throughout the years I have read the books of The Maccabees, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, and Baruch.  With these all being Old Testament writings I find them interesting and learn more history, but again, there is a difference between history and inspired word of God for me. 

There is so much out there to read and discern.  Since we are followers of Jesus, the New Testament is the covenant we are under, but wisdom and knowledge are wonderful additions to our walk with Yahweh!   

[debrakay]

2 hours ago, Who me said:

What you are saying is:- you do not think that scripture is complete or that it contains all we need to know in order to be saved and live to glorify jesus.

 

Oh, no, Who me, I did not mean to imply the Bible is not complete.  I am sorry if you thought that.  I only think there is so much more to learn and I think he is constantly teaching us more and more.  Salvation comes from the acceptance of the saving love and blood of Jesus Christ, to be baptized in water and in Spirit and to repent of our sins.  He is the only way to the Father.  

I always like the anagram B.I.B.L.E. = Basic Instruction Before Leaving Earth

It is the word of God to his people.  The Holy Spirit adds all of the footnotes and cross references for us to research throughout time.