Giving

[Hopefully]

On 11/30/2021 at 8:43 AM, Starise said:

If the Lord would have saved any of us based on whether we deserve it or not, probably none of us would make it.

Hi Starise,

you asked “Should we place conditions on our giving?”

I say no because of what you said here that I quoted above. 
 

I tend to give to people more than organizations, and I also think what about tomorrow. I know people are still happy to get help for today and the Lord will provide for tomorrow just as he has provided for them today. 

[Starise]

I hear you on this sister.

I had to ask myself, Does God ever place any conditions of His giving to us? 

There are some differences. He knows we need Him even though some are not aware of this. No question we ALL need Him, so the question is not do we need him. The question is not are we worthy of His gift. The question is what can we do to hinder His gifts to us? 

These hindrances would be the the conditions we place on ourselves that He would honor that keep us from His gifts. 

15 minutes ago, Hopefully said:

I tend to give to people more than organizations, and I also think what about tomorrow. I know people are still happy to get help for today and the Lord will provide for tomorrow just as he has provided for them today. 

I said what I did because I unfortunately in the flesh see some people and circumstances that seem like endless empty holes so far as giving is concerned. In the spirit however, I would give for one day and trust God with the rest.

I am not proud of myself that I sometimes see people that way and often wish I could see better beyond the surface. If God is providing for them using us who am I to question tomorrow?

[Reinitin]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:43 AM, Starise said:

I was curious if anyone here has a set criteria when they give to individuals and causes. Now let me say I'm not a wealthy person, so my giving needs to be measured with wisdom. I also realize that giving can be far more than simply a financial gift, yet saying we will pray for someone if we should be helping them is kinda shallow in my opinion and I have bible to back that up.

I have often heard persons say they have felt 'led' to give to a person or an organization. I can say I have also felt this leaning at times but can't explain it except to say I think about doing it at times and I credit the Spirit with this.

If I am asked to give to an organization I will look deeper at the organization. Take Goodwill for instance which is a well known charity organization in the US that takes used belongings for free, refurbishes them and re sells them. I will check to see what the CEO is making or if there is a lot of cream at the top of the organization. One such similar organization I have heard has the top brass making huge salaries( not Goodwill). The United Way claims to be a distributor of money to many well deserving entities but I really know very little about the entities they give to so I haven't given to them. WE can give to Worthy as well and I see no reason not to do so if you feel led. I guess I tend to be more critical of the much larger charities because of the aforementioned "cream at the top" issue. "IF" anyone knows for sure of any organization that is abusing or has abused their funds please state it here.

Specifically giving to ministry or your local church over and above the normal amount can be a good thing. I sometimes tend to be critical here too because I've been on outings with pastors ( not at my church now) who will whip out the church credit card for just about anything. Other more financially successful churches seem at times to me to be very frivolous with their funds. These sorts of things I have observed give me a bad taste in my mouth for some of it. Yet maybe I am being to over bearing here and should understand that what one values as important others do not. Doing the "Lord's work" with ministry and church monies can get into some grey areas. That's all I'll say on that. Most churches and ministries try to be financially transparent by posting what they do with our money, yet playing devil's advocate here- you can squeeze an awful lot into misc. accounting expenses and most will be none the wiser. In working for a partially state funded institution I have seen what can happen when people have money at their disposal. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.

Then there are the individuals we come across. In one recent case, a person who cuts my hair stated that they had their oil tank fixed but could not afford oil for heat and they were burning kerosene in a small heater to stay warm. Kerosene heat is a miserable way to heat a home because it robs the oxygen in the space and it gives a terrible kerosene smell. Not to mention they will probably spend more money on buying small quantities of kerosene than just filling their oil tank. I had the thought to see if I could help with oil, my wife was behind it if I felt the Lord leading me to do it but she was adamant it should be done secretly. I would normally agree with this and would have probably suggested it. In this case if I were in their shoes I would not like a person doing something like that on my property without me knowing about it since they have to show up to do it. This is why I thought asking permission first made more sense. Alas there is a disagreement in the chain of command. What if they deliver the oil while the person is gone and they don't know they received it? 

Should we place conditions on our giving? It can be difficult to gauge a person and/or a situation sometimes, and some one time gifts just seem like dumping a gift into a big bottomless hole. If I buy the oil it won't solve the problem that they will need more oil later and I probably can't do it again. If we give a meal to a stranger we fed him or her for a day, but who will feed them tomorrow? Are we simply extending in inevitable? If the Lord would have saved any of us based on whether we deserve it or not, probably none of us would make it. Reaching out to help a person that clearly got themselves into trouble can be a good thing if they are trying to get back on track.

Thoughts?

I think of 2 corinthias 8 and 9, Titus 8,

Math 8.

And then Mathew 6 suggests how we handle our material possessions is pretty much a thermometer for our spiritual conditions.

If you read the scriptures i suggested and see how God moves you.

To me Paul is asserting our giving is in response to the generocity of our Father who gave his Son to accomplish such a merciful work on the cross. And Jesus giving his life in our place.

So what they gave to create this spiritual response in us was not money was it?

People shared their homes and food, their time. If you read straight through their was so much gratitude expressed for people running with messages, sitting with the sick, visting and writing to the apostles in prison. We know the good Samaritan was an example for us giving.

When what was needed was money. The holy spirit moved on those who had wealth. The widow that gave her last dime for the poor was noticed by God. They women who annointed Jesus with her expensive perfume. Was a greater then selling it for money to be uses for the ministry. 

Maybe consider how Jesus gave. In the recorded record of his days. The money they got was used to care for the poor, widows and orphans.

Paul basically says, do what is in your heart, be a cheefully giver, develop our Father and Jesus giving Spirit in us..

We know what was said about people who gave out of the legalistic spirit of give to recieve, and giving and embelishing to fake having a heart moved by God for the praise of man. 

And we know the one sneaking his hand in the purse was no good. 

[Starise]

3 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

I think of 2 corinthias 8 and 9, Titus 8,

Math 8.

And then Mathew 6 suggests how we handle our material possessions is pretty much a thermometer for our spiritual conditions.

If you read the scriptures i suggested and see how God moves you.

To me Paul is asserting our giving is in response to the generocity of our Father who gave his Son to accomplish such a merciful work on the cross. And Jesus giving his life in our place.

So what they gave to create this spiritual response in us was not money was it?

People shared their homes and food, their time. If you read straight through their was so much gratitude expressed for people running with messages, sitting with the sick, visting and writing to the apostles in prison. We know the good Samaritan was an example for us giving.

When what was needed was money. The holy spirit moved on those who had wealth. The widow that gave her last dime for the poor was noticed by God. They women who annointed Jesus with her expensive perfume. Was a greater then selling it for money to be uses for the ministry. 

Maybe consider how Jesus gave. In the recorded record of his days. The money they got was used to care for the poor, widows and orphans.

Paul basically says, do what is in your heart, be a cheefully giver, develop our Father and Jesus giving Spirit in us..

We know what was said about people who gave out of the legalistic spirit of give to recieve, and giving and embelishing to fake having a heart moved by God for the praise of man. 

And we know the one sneaking his hand in the purse was no good. 

If a person has it, money is probably one of the most care free, least demanding things we can do. Throwing money at something is how some people describe the way the rich often deal with an issue and I believe it to be true. or " handle it, handle it!!!!!!" as they said in the Dukes Of Hazzard. Yet money given to the right people for the right reasons is a good thing doncha think?

Now if anyone has a lot extra and they want to throw some of it my way....just kidding.

Lots of giving happening this time of year that's just a tradition with no heart involved or something some employers feel they have to do because they did it last year and they did it the year before that.

 

 

[Reinitin]

31 minutes ago, Starise said:

If a person has it, money is probably one of the most care free, least demanding things we can do. Throwing money at something is how some people describe the way the rich often deal with an issue and I believe it to be true. or " handle it, handle it!!!!!!" as they said in the Dukes Of Hazzard. Yet money given to the right people for the right reasons is a good thing doncha think?

Now if anyone has a lot extra and they want to throw some of it my way....just kidding.

Lots of giving happening this time of year that's just a tradition with no heart involved or something some employers feel they have to do because they did it last year and they did it the year before that.

 

 

Yes, giving because tbat desire to is in your heart chearfully (right person, right reason) is walking and growing in fruit is. 

You have to remember there was a temple tax (the tithe) everyone was paying so the poor were taken care of. 

But it wasn't being used for that, was it?

I forget where it is. But in trying to dispute peoples false belief in a spiritual law that had became a satanic worldly system. 

The correction was a rebuke for sending a poor parent to the temple to be taken care of because you pay your tithe for tbat. Why wouldn't you just take care of your parent, because God also said, Honor your mother and father so things will go well for you? Totally a check and correct your spirit concerning leagalistic giving. The power of sin is the law. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Reinitin

[Reinitin]

9 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Yes, giving because tbat desire to is in your heart chearfully (right person, right reason) is walking and growing in fruit is. 

You have to remember there was a temple tax (the tithe) everyone was paying so the poor were taken care of. 

But it wasn't being used for that, was it?

I forget where it is. But in trying to dispute peoples false belief in a spiritual law that had became a satanic worldly system. 

The correction was a rebuke for sending a poor parent to the temple to be taken care of because you pay your tithe for tbat. Why wouldn't you just take care of your parent, because God also said, Honor your mother and father so things will go well for you? Totally a check and correct your spirit concerning leagalistic giving into a worldly system. The power of sin is the law. 

 

[Starise]

48 minutes ago, Reinitin said:

Yes, giving because tbat desire to is in your heart chearfully (right person, right reason) is walking and growing in fruit is. 

You have to remember there was a temple tax (the tithe) everyone was paying so the poor were taken care of. 

But it wasn't being used for that, was it?

I forget where it is. But in trying to dispute peoples false belief in a spiritual law that had became a satanic worldly system. 

The correction was a rebuke for sending a poor parent to the temple to be taken care of because you pay your tithe for tbat. Why wouldn't you just take care of your parent, because God also said, Honor your mother and father so things will go well for you? Totally a check and correct your spirit concerning leagalistic giving. The power of sin is the law. 

This reminds me of our own system in place in the US and in other countries that is supposed to help the poor. Unfortunately some feel that since the state is tending to it they no longer have any need to give.

Shifting the burden of helps from Christians and churches to the state is not such a good thing. How has this happened? Could we say it happened partially because Christians didn't give? or maybe the closer answer is big brother just wanted more control and to be seen as the helper. One of the largest problems with this is the bureaucracy. The very thing that brought the Soviet Union down. To many chiefs. Not enough indians. After all is said and done it is a very inefficient system. 

Many people "fall through the cracks" here. Helping those closest to us like our parents should certainly be a priority. When my dad was older he would never take any help from me. He always wanted to be self sufficient. I would ask- Dad can I send you anything? to which he would always respond no I'm fine. My wife's parents were better off than we were, but they were close and occasionally we could help with things they could not do. This wasn't very often. For the most part I don't feel help given to parents ever amounted to anything. They always gave far more than we could ever return.

[Reinitin]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

This reminds me of our own system in place in the US and in other countries that is supposed to help the poor. Unfortunately some feel that since the state is tending to it they no longer have any need to give.

Shifting the burden of helps from Christians and churches to the state is not such a good thing. How has this happened? Could we say it happened partially because Christians didn't give? or maybe the closer answer is big brother just wanted more control and to be seen as the helper. One of the largest problems with this is the bureaucracy. The very thing that brought the Soviet Union down. To many chiefs. Not enough indians. After all is said and done it is a very inefficient system. 

Many people "fall through the cracks" here. Helping those closest to us like our parents should certainly be a priority. When my dad was older he would never take any help from me. He always wanted to be self sufficient. I would ask- Dad can I send you anything? to which he would always respond no I'm fine. My wife's parents were better off than we were, but they were close and occasionally we could help with things they could not do. This wasn't very often. For the most part I don't feel help given to parents ever amounted to anything. They always gave far more than we could ever return.

Here In the USA we didn't have any government security nets during the great depression. That Generation went through 1917 Spanish influenza. My great grams was 7 years on a wagon train from Connecticut to Oklahoma. She said they couldn't stop at towns for supplies because bodies were stacked up like cord wood outside the trails into town. Then she and most families lost relatives, friends and neighbors in the wars. And then they were smacked up side the head with a great depression.

Everyone was being robbed of money, land, homes, businesses and property by the government and banks.

Hardly anyone could afford food or find work.

So I can understand the spirit of their heart. Not wanting us or anyone to suffer like they did. And why they wanted a government safety net.

But once a spiritual benevolence becomes a worldly system there are going to be pharasees and judas's turning it over to the prince of this world. 

It wasn't that long ago. 

People in desperate situation, grief, under oppression or burdened down with guilt and sin. Need hope, need essentials like shelter and food but they need Jesus, need love encouragement and validation and prayers maybe all the gifts of the spirit working through all us children of God to pull them through. So now the oppresses have money but have lost the faith, hope and love of community in my humble opinion. My G grama's generation may have went to sleep with and empty tummy, sheltered only by a blanket hung on a tree but they loved each other, pulled each other through and according to her in hind sight were better off. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Reinitin

[Starise]

19 hours ago, Reinitin said:

Here In the USA we didn't have any government security nets during the great depression. That Generation went through 1917 Spanish influenza. My great grams was 7 years on a wagon train from Connecticut to Oklahoma. She said they couldn't stop at towns for supplies because bodies were stacked up like cord wood outside the trails into town. Then she and most families lost relatives, friends and neighbors in the wars. And then they were smacked up side the head with a great depression.

Everyone was being robbed of money, land, homes, businesses and property by the government and banks.

Hardly anyone could afford food or find work.

So I can understand the spirit of their heart. Not wanting us or anyone to suffer like they did. And why they wanted a government safety net.

But once a spiritual benevolence becomes a worldly system there are going to be pharasees and judas's turning it over to the prince of this world. 

It wasn't that long ago. 

People in desperate situation, grief, under oppression or burdened down with guilt and sin. Need hope, need essentials like shelter and food but they need Jesus, need love encouragement and validation and prayers maybe all the gifts of the spirit working through all us children of God to pull them through. So now the oppresses have money but have lost the faith, hope and love of community in my humble opinion. My G grama's generation may have went to sleep with and empty tummy, sheltered only by a blanket hung on a tree but they loved each other, pulled each other through and according to her in hind sight were better off. 

Fast forward to 2021 we have people talking on the latest iPhone wearing gold jewelry using food assistance at the register.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Starise

[debrakay]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:47 AM, Jayne said:

Yes, the Goodwill CEO makes a lot  of money.  But Goodwill isn't a place for poor people to shop, anyone can shop there and pay low  prices.

Goodwill is for giving poor people jobs.  I support that.

Back in the day most of my shopping was done at Goodwill and garage sales. We had very little money so this helped out so much.  Today I have far more than I need so I take several loads of clothing and household goods in hopes to help with those costs for other families.  They are not a perfect company but they do more good than harm in my opinion. I found this good article about all they do and I had no idea about a lot of it.

https://www.seattletimes.com/pacific-nw-magazine/heres-what-goodwill-really-does-with-the-stuff-you-donate/