covenant Leviticus 16:16 debuncts the theory that the Old Covenant is different to the New Covenant. They are identical, its the individual who makes the promise to keep it that is different.

[teddyv]

17 hours ago, MrBear said:

That’s interesting 

I don’t know about it though because God have explicit commands on how the camp would be set up to the camp for diseased people on the outskirts and each tribe had their own designated positions around the Tabernacle, I’m sure God wouldn’t copy the planning of the Egyptians.

But I admit that’s an interesting take I haven’t heard before?

SHALOM❤️

I don't think we can ignore the fact that the Israelites were coming out of 400 years of living within Egypt. While they no doubt retained their original identity, culture and traditions, they also likely would have been infused with the Egyptian culture. 

The covenant between God and the Israelites has also been recognized to follow the pattern of other suzerain-vassal covenant treaties of the time. An example would be a covenant between the Egyptians and Hittites (sorry, no immediate source at this time).

[teddyv]

12 hours ago, adamjedgar said:

I hardly think that has any bearing on the location of the tabernacle...where did the pillar of cloud reside when the Egyptian army were chasing after the Israelites at the Red Sea?

During battle is one thing, while encamped is another.

12 hours ago, adamjedgar said:

Do you honestly think that God, the same God who struck Hophni and Phinehas down dead for making strange offerings in the Tabernacle, needed to protect it from foreign invaders by surrounding it with a million scapegoats? I think this an unlikely scenario given the evidence in the Bible to the contrary.

No. And I did not even mean to imply that. The camp layout appears to follow the traditional battle camp layout of the ANE, which should not even be that unusual. The Bible is not particularly clear on the matter, and it's of little importance really. Just a note of interest.

[MrBear]

42 minutes ago, teddyv said:

I don't think we can ignore the fact that the Israelites were coming out of 400 years of living within Egypt. While they no doubt retained their original identity, culture and traditions, they also likely would have been infused with the Egyptian culture. 

The covenant between God and the Israelites has also been recognized to follow the pattern of other suzerain-vassal covenant treaties of the time. An example would be a covenant between the Egyptians and Hittites (sorry, no immediate source at this time).

Brother don’t misunderstand im not criticizing that theory, I think it’s not in Gods plan to set up a camp based on a civilization that practiced pagan rituals and worshiped other gods, If anything the Israelites had nothing to do with the layout of the camp ⛺️ other than put their tents where God commanded them

Not to say it isn’t possible but I think when you are dealing with over a half million people you need a central hub so everyone has equal distance to offer sacrifices, putting the Tabernacle in the middle of the camp would be the best logistical place for it

But I don’t want you to think I was putting a stumbling block in your theory, is it possible? Yes but unlikely I think it had to do more with logistics or you could go with

The Tabernacle was in the center of the camp because God wants to be central in your life ❤️
Theory’s are nice, and when we sit one day with the Father we can ask him these questions 

personally I can’t wait to have supper with all of my family and I got lots of questions for them all ?

Like what was Paul’s “ thorn?”, who was  Melkizedek?, did  Adam have a belly button? silly things,.. and I hope you are all with me at the table ❤️
SHALOM❤️

Edited December 3, 2021 by MrBear

[teddyv]

1 hour ago, MrBear said:

Brother don’t misunderstand im not criticizing that theory, I think it’s not in Gods plan to set up a camp based on a civilization that practiced pagan rituals and worshiped other gods, If anything the Israelites had nothing to do with the layout of the camp ⛺️ other than put their tents where God commanded them

Not to say it isn’t possible but I think when you are dealing with over a half million people you need a central hub so everyone has equal distance to offer sacrifices, putting the Tabernacle in the middle of the camp would be the best logistical place for it

But I don’t want you to think I was putting a stumbling block in your theory, is it possible? Yes but unlikely I think it had to do more with logistics or you could go with

The Tabernacle was in the center of the camp because God wants to be central in your life ❤️
Theory’s are nice, and when we sit one day with the Father we can ask him these questions 

personally I can’t wait to have supper with all of my family and I got lots of questions for them all ?

Like what was Paul’s “ thorn?”, who was  Melkizedek?, did  Adam have a belly button? silly things,.. and I hope you are all with me at the table ❤️
SHALOM❤️

I did not take your comment as criticism and if my reply suggested that, then that was my fault. I was just fleshing out the idea a bit more - just as part of the conversation.

[Charlie744]

15 minutes ago, teddyv said:

I did not take your comment as criticism and if my reply suggested that, then that was my fault. I was just fleshing out the idea a bit more - just as part of the conversation.

 

https://i.stack.imgur.com/gqVzr.jpg

http://www.biblefragrances.com/studies/fourbanners.html

This link might be interesting for some to read along with the image above, which is quite symbolic.... Charlie

 

[steve morrow]

WHY  WOULD  THERE  BE  A  NEW  COVENANT  IF  THE  OLD  WAS  THE  SAME 

and why would you want to make   THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  into a liar

 

HEBREWS  7:11  if therefore perfection were by the levitical priesthood for under it the people received the law what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of melchisedec ---and be not called after the order of aaron ---

--7:12-- for the priesthood being changed there is made of necessity a change also of the law 

 

*******ROMANS 8:2  for the law of the spirit of life in  CHRIST  JESUS  ---hath made me free from the law of sin and death *******

 

LEVITICUS 20:10  and the man that committeth adultery with another mans wife even he that committeth adultery with his neighbors wife ---the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death---

--20:15-- and if a man lie with a beast he shall surely be put to death and you shall slay the beast ---

 

JOHN 8:7  so when they continued asking  HIM  HE  lifted up himself and said unto them ---he that is without sin among you let him first cast a stone at her---

 

LUKE 13:3  I tell you nay but except you repent you shall all likewise perish

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

 

[adamjedgar]

On 12/6/2021 at 12:44 PM, steve morrow said:

WHY  WOULD  THERE  BE  A  NEW  COVENANT  IF  THE  OLD  WAS  THE  SAME 

and why would you want to make   THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST  into a liar

 

HEBREWS  7:11  if therefore perfection were by the levitical priesthood for under it the people received the law what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of melchisedec ---and be not called after the order of aaron ---

--7:12-- for the priesthood being changed there is made of necessity a change also of the law 

 

*******ROMANS 8:2  for the law of the spirit of life in  CHRIST  JESUS  ---hath made me free from the law of sin and death *******

 

LEVITICUS 20:10  and the man that committeth adultery with another mans wife even he that committeth adultery with his neighbors wife ---the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death---

--20:15-- and if a man lie with a beast he shall surely be put to death and you shall slay the beast ---

 

JOHN 8:7  so when they continued asking  HIM  HE  lifted up himself and said unto them ---he that is without sin among you let him first cast a stone at her---

 

LUKE 13:3  I tell you nay but except you repent you shall all likewise perish

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

 

No one is calling Jesus a liar, you do not correctly interpreted some of the texts you have quoted to apparently support that statement.

The covenant God made with us started with Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 3...it has always been about redemption. 

People seem to lose sight of this truth and starting claiming one covenant is about the faulty law and a new covenant is about the free gift of salvation and separate the two. This is wrong.

Paul in the first few chapters of Romans clearly proves this... It also clearly stated, even Abraham was saved by faith!

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by adamjedgar

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, adamjedgar said:

No one is calling Jesus a liar, you do not correctly interpreted some of the texts you have quoted to apparently support that statement.

The covenant God made with us started with Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 3...it has always been about redemption. 

People seem to lose sight of this truth and starting claiming one covenant is about the faulty law and a new covenant is about the free gift of salvation and separate the two. This is wrong.

Paul in the first few chapters of Romans clearly proves this... It also clearly stated, even Abraham was saved by faith!

The Law has its limitations. It can lead to the Promised Land but cannot give entrance to it, something typified in Moses getting as far as the Jordan River but not leading Israel into Caanan, which Joshua as a type of Christ was ordained to do. 

Heb 7:18-19  For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,  (19)  for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

All previous covenants have their fulfillment in Christ:

Heb 5:8-9  though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.  (9)  And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

[adamjedgar]

The covenant has nothing to do with the failure of Gods law or its limitations!

You start out by making an assumption that in the old testament Gods people were saved by keeping the law. This is categorically a false assumption...no one has ever been saved by the law. Paul clearly states this as fact in the first few chapters of the book of Romans.

Again, the covenant God made started in Genesis Chapter 3.

I cannot understand why it is that non sabbath keeping denominations jump on this bandwagon and head down a rugged pathway that leads around in circles. 

The significant theme of the Bible overrides all other interpretations to the contrary and its really really simple:

1. man sinned

2. God set a plan of salvation in motion to rescue man from "the wages of sin" which is death according to GODS ETERNAL LAW!

3. Jesus came and "paid the price" for the "wages of sin" which is transgression of GODS ETERNAL LAW!

4. The apostle Paul then further explained that the free gift of salvation, as demonstrated by Abraham, can only be received through faith in Jesus Christ atonement for our sins!

5. Finally, The apostle John summed all of this up in the final chapter of his vision of earths history as we know it...we cannot enter into the promised land (God eternal rest) if we do not "keep his commandments AND have the faith of Jesus" (patience of the saints in Rev 12:9).

[Michael37]

11 hours ago, adamjedgar said:

The covenant has nothing to do with the failure of Gods law or its limitations!

To some people maybe . . .

Heb 7:28  For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.