If the Church isn't raptured pre trib, then where does it go after Revelation 4?

[DeighAnn]

Since the church isn't mentioned after Rev 4, it must be 'taken up to heaven' for the marriage.  Is that a TRUTH found in the words of God?

What if that isn't what IS WRITTEN? 

Reading Chapters 2 and 3 a couple of the churches are in some pretty bad shape and a couple in some good shape. How would that effect a pre trib rapture status?  Can the body be divided?  What about those with sins they have not repented of?  Or trespasses?  Are sins taken to heaven?
Do these words describe what a 'bride' of Christs would/should look like?  Do those descriptions describe the priests and those to rule and reign with Christ for the Lords Day to you?  Churches who hold doctrines that God ACTUALLY hates?  

Breaking it down....


WHO IS GIVING US THE INFO
These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand,
who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks 
These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive  
These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges
These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars  
These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David,
he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;


WHAT DOES HE KNOW?
I know thy works,
and thy labour,
and thy patience,
and how thou canst not bear them which are evil
and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars
and hast borne,
and hast patience,
and for my name's sake hast laboured
and hast not fainted. 
that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
I know thy works,
and tribulation,
and poverty, (but thou art rich)
and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.  
I know thy works,
and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is:
and thou holdest fast my name,
and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
I know thy works,
and charity,
and service,
and faith,
and thy patience,
and thy works
and the last to be more than the first.
I know thy works

WHAT PROBLEMS DOES HE FIND?
thou hast left thy first love 
thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication,
and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication
and she repented not.
thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich
and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear
and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten be zealous therefore, and repent.
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel,
to eat things sacrificed unto idols,
and to commit fornication.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.


WHAT DOES HE SEE AS GOOD?
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works
But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. 
Thou hast a few names which have not defiled their garments
they shall walk with me in white for they are worthy.
behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie
behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer:
behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried;
and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death,
and I will give thee a crown of life.



WHAT ARE THE WARNINGS HE GIVES?
I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.  
I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
I will kill her children with death and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts and
I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief,
and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Repent or else I will come unto thee quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

 

 WHAT INSTRUCTIONS DOES THE SPIRIT SAITH UNTO THE CHURCHES?
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron
AS THE VESSELS OF A POTTER SHALL THEY BE BROKEN TO SHIVERS
EVEN AS I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER 
And I will give him the morning star.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,
but I will confess his name before my Father,
and before his angels.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,
and he shall go no more out:
and I will write upon him the name of my God,
and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God:
and I will write upon him my new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
EVEN AS I ALSO OVERCAME AND AM SET DOWN WITH MY FATHER IN HIS THRONE
He that hath an ear, let him hear 

 

The SPIRIT tells THE ANGELS OF
the churches - where 2 or more are gathered in His name/the gatherings OF THE HE'S AND HIM'S/the assemblies of the he's and him's/ the congregations of the he's and him's  

Not once is A CHURCH promised anything.  Not once is a GROUP of people promised anything.  The only promises are given to INDIVIDUALS of a gathering place. 

 

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

SO in answer to where does the church go, IT DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE.

BUT it changes.  

The churches of today are worshipping our Father who art in heaven.  

Soon there will be someone PROCLAIMING TO BE GOD HERE ON THE EARTH. 

Someone the whole world will worship after believing him to be Our Lord and Saviour returned(having been deceived a man)

We know for sure there is a 'FALLING AWAY' before the TRUE LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS returns

So the churches of the tribulation will be here on earth but they will no longer be worshipping OUR FATHER WHO ART and STILL will be in heaven.  

THAT is, I BELIEVE, where the church will be for the 'tribulation'.  

If you want to be KEPT from that hour - know that 'kept' is something that comes from WITHIN
If you don't want Gods wrath to fall upon you,  then make sure you are wearing the gospel armor to withstand the fiery darts of Satan
If you want to be delivered - read about how Paul was delivered. 

If you don't think 'the church' will be tested, find a verse that says just that.  
If you still think it will go pre trib then find one verse WHERE IT IS WRITTEN.  ONE.  JUST ONE. 

Neither myself nor anyone else can tell you if this is truth or not on the HOLY SPIRIT CAN do that.  And that takes some knee time sometimes.  

d
 

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Since the church isn't mentioned after Rev 4, it must be 'taken up to heaven' for the marriage.  Is that a TRUTH found in the words of God?

What if that isn't what IS WRITTEN? 

Reading Chapters 2 and 3 a couple of the churches are in some pretty bad shape and a couple in some good shape. How would that effect a pre trib rapture status?  Can the body be divided?  What about those with sins they have not repented of?  Or trespasses?  Are sins taken to heaven?
Do these words describe what a 'bride' of Christs would/should look like?  Do those descriptions describe the priests and those to rule and reign with Christ for the Lords Day to you?  Churches who hold doctrines that God ACTUALLY hates?  

Breaking it down....


WHO IS GIVING US THE INFO
These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand,
who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks 
These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive  
These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges
These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars  
These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David,
he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;


WHAT DOES HE KNOW?
I know thy works,
and thy labour,
and thy patience,
and how thou canst not bear them which are evil
and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars
and hast borne,
and hast patience,
and for my name's sake hast laboured
and hast not fainted. 
that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
I know thy works,
and tribulation,
and poverty, (but thou art rich)
and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.  
I know thy works,
and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is:
and thou holdest fast my name,
and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
I know thy works,
and charity,
and service,
and faith,
and thy patience,
and thy works
and the last to be more than the first.
I know thy works

WHAT PROBLEMS DOES HE FIND?
thou hast left thy first love 
thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication,
and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication
and she repented not.
thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich
and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear
and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten be zealous therefore, and repent.
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel,
to eat things sacrificed unto idols,
and to commit fornication.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.


WHAT DOES HE SEE AS GOOD?
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works
But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. 
Thou hast a few names which have not defiled their garments
they shall walk with me in white for they are worthy.
behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie
behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer:
behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried;
and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death,
and I will give thee a crown of life.



WHAT ARE THE WARNINGS HE GIVES?
I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.  
I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
I will kill her children with death and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts and
I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief,
and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Repent or else I will come unto thee quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

 

 WHAT INSTRUCTIONS DOES THE SPIRIT SAITH UNTO THE CHURCHES?
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron
AS THE VESSELS OF A POTTER SHALL THEY BE BROKEN TO SHIVERS
EVEN AS I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER 
And I will give him the morning star.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,
but I will confess his name before my Father,
and before his angels.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,
and he shall go no more out:
and I will write upon him the name of my God,
and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God:
and I will write upon him my new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
EVEN AS I ALSO OVERCAME AND AM SET DOWN WITH MY FATHER IN HIS THRONE
He that hath an ear, let him hear 

 

The SPIRIT tells THE ANGELS OF
the churches - where 2 or more are gathered in His name/the gatherings OF THE HE'S AND HIM'S/the assemblies of the he's and him's/ the congregations of the he's and him's  

Not once is A CHURCH promised anything.  Not once is a GROUP of people promised anything.  The only promises are given to INDIVIDUALS of a gathering place. 

 

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

SO in answer to where does the church go, IT DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE.

BUT it changes.  

The churches of today are worshipping our Father who art in heaven.  

Soon there will be someone PROCLAIMING TO BE GOD HERE ON THE EARTH. 

Someone the whole world will worship after believing him to be Our Lord and Saviour returned(having been deceived a man)

We know for sure there is a 'FALLING AWAY' before the TRUE LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS returns

So the churches of the tribulation will be here on earth but they will no longer be worshipping OUR FATHER WHO ART and STILL will be in heaven.  

THAT is, I BELIEVE, where the church will be for the 'tribulation'.  

If you want to be KEPT from that hour - know that 'kept' is something that comes from WITHIN
If you don't want Gods wrath to fall upon you,  then make sure you are wearing the gospel armor to withstand the fiery darts of Satan
If you want to be delivered - read about how Paul was delivered. 

If you don't think 'the church' will be tested, find a verse that says just that.  
If you still think it will go pre trib then find one verse WHERE IT IS WRITTEN.  ONE.  JUST ONE. 

Neither myself nor anyone else can tell you if this is truth or not on the HOLY SPIRIT CAN do that.  And that takes some knee time sometimes.  

d
 

You address a very important point here. Well have you said that the Churches are largely apostate. To summarize then; Five Churches are rebuked, only one is commended. Four Churches are threatened by Christ's coming - that is, they, or their condition will last until the Second Coming. But even more decisive is that the Lord addresses them concerning their WORKS. Their faith is never questioned. They are called "Churches" - that is "Ekklesia" - the "gathering of the called-out-ones". Each Church has its angel. Each Church must receive all seven letters. That is, there is danger that each Church could, and will, have all the problems. And since their status as Churches is not called into question, then. What is called into question is (i) their staus as Christ's Testimony - His Lampstand, and their status in regard to REWARD.

This is no mre clearly seen than in the Church that is not found guilty - Philadelphia - the Church of brotherly love. And what is the REWARD? We read in verses 10-11 

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

From these few words comes a rich revelation:

1. "Because"! This word means that man did something and God will act to. It makes the whole text CONDITIONAL
2. "the word of my PATIENCE"! What can this mean? It means that Christ delayed and warned of this delay. IN  Matthew the parables of the King receiving His Kingdom, all show a delay. The tragic turn of "that servant" from a faithful servant to evil servant in Matthew 24:45-50 was because "his Master delays ...". Saul lost his kingship because he could not wait for the priest to offer (1st Sam.13:13-14). Nearly all problems in Churches to day are because of some degree of impatience.
3. "I will keep you FROM"! It is NOT, "I will keep you IN"! What the Lord will do is preserve these Overcomers by taking them away from the scene of trouble.
4. "FROM the HOUR"! Not only will the saints be kept FROM by distance, but the will not be there when it happens. They will be missing during the TIME of trouble
5. The hour of "temptation", or "TRIAL"! It means a sever TEST which includes pain
6. It shall come upon "ALL the world". There is not a single safe corner of earth. The Holy Spirit wrote "ALL" and that means "ALL".
7. "To try them that dwell upon earth"! No man is exempt if he dwells on earth. The dead are safe in Hades and the angels are safe in heaven. But if you are anywhere on earth you are doomed.
8. "Behold I come quickly" The word "suddenly can equally mean "SUDDENLY". The Lord's Second Coming will sudden and unexpected
9. "let no MAN ... ". The danger is not from angels or demons, but MEN. Men entice, men are subtle, men are evil, men deceive men. And meant here is MEN of the Church - those that surround you on a daily basis. Look at the other Churches. What stumbled them? Men!
10. "take your crown"! A Crown is for RULING. Here then is the second REWARD. God man man to rule THE EARTH (Gen.1:26-28). As a  man you are part of a plan that God has never given up. As a Believer you are son of Abraham for he is the "father of them that believe". And if seed of Abraham, then heirs to the Promise! What promise? Romans 4:13 tells - ownership of the earth! In Luke our Lord Jesus is "Son of Adam" to show He is a Man. Hebrews Chapter 1 is clear. To no angel is dominion given. The Scepter is for the Man Jesus. It is the Son Who was "begotten this day" showing Jesus's humanity. And man is for the earth. There is no problem in heaven. God's will is done there. But the "earth lies in the wicked one" - "Thy Kingdom COME (from heaven to earth)". In Matthew Jesus is "Son of Abraham and Son of David". To Abraham is promised the earth making Jesus heir to the title of King of kings. To David is promised rulership over combined Israel - making Jesus King of the Jews. In both cases He is a MAN. Only in John is He Son of God the Creator and OWNER of all that is made.
11. But John is the one who tells us that rebirth is for the kingdom (Jn.3:3-5). The "Crown" is valid at rebirth. It is yours to execrise when Jesus has been crowned. But you can LOSE IT! Beware: Prince Charles of Great Britain is BORN royal. The crown is his by birth. But if he is wanton and breaks the laws of England, His mother will disown him and he will have his crown taken away. He is king by BIRTH. He can lose it by WORKS.

But if the crown is your birthright, what is the REWARD? The REWARD is to be someplace else than the "whole" earth when the hour of trial comes. Man can only be in three places. (i) Normally, he is on the earth. Gravity sees to that. (ii) When he dies his soul goes to Hades under the earth. But 2nd Corinthians 5:1-5 says we "groan" when we are naked of our bodies. Lazarus must be "comforted" IN DEATH (Lk.16). Death is God's enemy. Hades must be, but it is not first choice to escape the Great Tribulation. (iii) The last place a man can be is in the air. God's wrath is about to "TRY all the earth" and "TRY all those who dwell on the earth". No place is exempt. 1st Thessalonians 5:9 tells us that we have not been appointed to wrath. And the preceeding verses tell us how to be "comforted". The escape is to be "caught away to the air and the clouds (4:14-17). What will we do there? MEET THE LORD!

Luke 21:36 says the same thing. Trials will come on ALL the earth. What is the escape. "To STAND BEFORE the Son of man - Jesus". Where is He at that time. IN THE AIR! But wait! What does Luke 21:36 also say? "One must be ACCOUNTED WORTHY"! it is, like Revelation 3:10 CONDITIONAL! You have to earn it. 

 

[DeighAnn]

6 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The REWARD is to be someplace else than the "whole" earth when the hour of trial comes.

What reward?  The rewards come after one has endured and overcome.  Can't overcome the OVERCOMER until he has been cast out of heaven to earth to overcome.  IF we leave BEFORE we have not OVERCOME anything or anyone at least Nothing everyone else hasn't had over come before.  

DOES the  CHURCH need to be REWARDED for living like every other generation before it has?  What makes them so special?  Shoot the critiques of the CHURCHES are almost worse than what was wrong with the Pharisees and Sadducees back in the day.  If the Church was 'the power' back then,  I am pretty sure they would have done the same thing. 
One way to find out who they really are is a bit of tribulation.  That will tell God where one stands.  Almost like He planned it.  Well we know He planned it He said so. 

He was the one who gave Satan a 'crown' sent him to earth.  Seems a shame to have studied all these years and been given power over all our enemies and then to just 'fly away' to safety instead of seeing how powerful God is when working through us.  I know I have the faith to make a stand.  

 

34 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

but what I DON'T SEE IT THE TRIP TO HEAVEN PRE TRIB AS THE WAY IN WHICH THIS WILL BE ACCOMPLISHED.  SURELY YOU HAVE A SCRIPTURE IN GODS WORDS 

Going to the Greek
BECAUSE YOU HAVE KEPT THE WORD OF THE PATIENT ENDURANCE OF ME I ALSO WILL KEEP OUT OF THE HOUR OF THE TRIAL BEING ABOUT TO COME UPON THE INHABITED WORLD WHOLE TO TRY THOSE DWELLING UPON THE EARTH

So I looked for the trip to heaven here and didn't find it

KEPT  
5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.

PATIENT ENDURANCE
5281. hupomoné ►
Strong's Concordance
hupomoné: a remaining behind, a patient enduring
Original Word: ὑπομονή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hupomoné
Phonetic Spelling: (hoop-om-on-ay')
Definition: a remaining behind, a patient enduring
Usage: endurance, steadfastness, patient waiting for.
HELPS Word-studies
5281 hypomonḗ (from 5259 /hypó, "under" and 3306 /ménō, "remain, endure") – properly, remaining under, endurance; steadfastness, especially as God enables the believer to "remain (endure) under" the challenges He allots in life.

WILL KEEP
5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.

OUT OF
1537. ek or ex ►
Strong's Concordance
ek or ex: from, from out of
Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.
HELPS Word-studies
1537 ek (a preposition, written eks before a vowel) – properly, "out from and to" (the outcome); out from within. 1537 /ek ("out of") is one of the most under-translated (and therefore mis-translated) Greek propositions – often being confined to the meaning "by." 1537 (ek) has a two-layered meaning ("out from and to") which makes it out-come oriented (out of the depths of the source and extending to its impact on the object).


TRIAL
3986. peirasmos ►
Strong's Concordance
peirasmos: an experiment, a trial, temptation
Original Word: πειρασμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: peirasmos
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-ras-mos')
Definition: an experiment, a trial, temptation
Usage: (a) trial, probation, testing, being tried, (b) temptation, (c) calamity, affliction.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3986 peirasmós (from 3985 /peirázō) – temptation or test – both senses can apply simultaneously (depending on the context). The positive sense ("test") and negative sense ("temptation") are functions of the context (not merely the words themselves).

TO TRY
3985. peirazó ►
Strong's Concordance
peirazó: to make proof of, to attempt, test, tempt
Original Word: πειράζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: peirazó
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-rad'-zo)
Definition: to make proof of, to attempt, test, tempt
Usage: I try, tempt, test.
HELPS Word-studies
3985 peirázō (from 3984 /peíra, "test, trial") – "originally to test, to try which was its usual meaning in the ancient Greek and in the LXX" (WP, 1, 30). "The word means either test or tempt" (WP, 1, 348). Context alone determines which sense is intended, or if both apply simultaneously.

3985 (peirazō) means "tempt" ("negative sense") in: Mt 16:1, 19:3, 22:18,35; Mk 8:11, 10:2, 12:15; Lk 11:16, 20:33; Jn 8:6; Js 1:13,14.

3985 (peirazō) however is used of positive tests in: Mt 4:11; Lk 22:28; 1 Cor 10:13; Js 1:12.


SO that isn't the 'pre trib rap' verse as it DOESN'T mention heaven nor pre trib at all.  Just the hour of temptation and watching and guarding over us

Anything past that would be a CONCLUSION or  SUPPOSITION 

Going to start another page to keep it short.  If you could wait till I get through you post I think it would help.  d

[DeighAnn]

55 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

• "Behold I come quickly" The word "suddenly can equally mean "SUDDENLY". The Lord's Second Coming will sudden and unexpected
• "let no MAN ... ". The danger is not from angels or demons, but MEN. Men entice, men are subtle, men are evil, men deceive men. And meant here is MEN of the Church - those that surround you on a daily basis. Look at the other Churches. What stumbled them? Men!
• "take your crown"! A Crown is for RULING.

I come quickly  LIKE LIGHTENING FROM EAST TO WEST QUICKLY 
 

5035. tachu ►
Strong's Concordance
tachu: quickly
Original Word: ταχύ
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: tachu
Phonetic Spelling: (takh-oo')
Definition: quickly
Usage: quickly, speedily.
HELPS Word-studies
5035 taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).

[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]

I think that is a draw.



Let no man  
 

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

DON'T BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN


yes, A CROWN is for ruling and that doesn't start UNTIL THE LORD RETURNS as King of kings and Lord of lords to rule and reign.  No one to RULE until then, no one to rule in heaven.  DON'T LET ANYONE take your crown by not letting anyone deceive/seduce you.  Remain faithful to God.  Don't fall away.  Don't buy and sell.  Don't worship the beast.  THOSE things will make you lose your crown.  

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

1st Thessalonians 5:9 tells us that we have not been appointed to wrath. And the preceeding verses tell us how to be "comforted". The escape is to be "caught away to the air and the clouds (4:14-17). What will we do there? MEET THE LORD!

Luke 21:36 says the same thing. Trials will come on ALL the earth. What is the escape. "To STAND BEFORE the Son of man - Jesus". Where is He at that time. IN THE AIR! But wait! What does Luke 21:36 also say? "One must be ACCOUNTED WORTHY"! it is, like Revelation 3:10 CONDITIONAL! You have to earn it. 

 

WHO does Gods wrath fall on?  Those who have been faithful and obedient and loving to HIM?  NO His wrath falls upon THEM.  THEM who are not of us.  Them who haven't taken the Messiah as their Lord and Saviour.  THEM who have deceived and taken the mark of the beast.  SO NO, OUR FAITH KEEPS GODS WRATH FROM FALLING ON US.  THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING IN US KEEPS GODS WRATH FROM FALLING UPON US.  

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would NOT  have you to BE IGNORANT , brethren, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

not concerNing THE CHURCH but CONCERNING THE NOW DEAD.  

That is the SUBJECT of THESSALONIANS   4

SO what ABOUT THE DEAD
 

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

THE DEAD ARE COMING BACK WITH HIM, NO CHURCH HAS BEEN RAPTURED THE ONLY THING THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE IS PEOPLE HAVE DIED AND GONE TO HEAVEN, RETURNED TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM AND THOSE PEOPLE,
THE DEAD ONES,   
WILL BE RETURNING

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

not the pre trib raptured church because WHAT IS WRITTEN IS WRITTEN OF THE DEAD, NOT THE CHURCH

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

WHEN ARE CHRISTIANS/THE BODY OF CHRIST/THE CHURCH CAUGHT UP TO MEET IN THE AIR? 

WHEN THE DEAD RETURN.  
 

1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

HOW COMFORTING TO KNOW OUR LOVED ONES AREN'T ROTTING IN THE EARTH AND THEY ARE COMING BACK TO MEET US WHEN CHRIST RETURN TO SET UP THE KINGDOM. 


AND YES, THAT IS WHEN WE WILL STAND BEFORE JESUS.  KNOW WHY?  BECAUSE WE PASSED THE TEST.  WE DID NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST.  WE PUT ON THE GOSPEL ARMOR AND WITHSTOOD.  WE ENDURED TO THE END.  WE REMAINED FAITHFULL WHEN EVERYONE ELSE WAS FALLING AWAY.  WE DIDN'T LOOK TO SAVE OUR LIVES AND IN SO DOING FOUND THEM

THE OPPOSITE OF THOSE WHO DID LOOK TO SAVE THEIR LIVES AND LOST THEM

We cant tell God WE ARE SAVED.  We can't build a tower to heaven be it with brick or scripture.  ALL MEN DEATH AND JUDGMENT.  

ONE time at the very very very END OF AN AGE will those who STOOD IN the POWER OF the FAITH of God against all adversity of the Adversary will a 'group' not suffer death but be changed.   ONCE AND only cause it has to come to a close somehow.  

[AdHoc]

40 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I come quickly  LIKE LIGHTENING FROM EAST TO WEST QUICKLY 
 

5035. tachu ►
Strong's Concordance
tachu: quickly
Original Word: ταχύ
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: tachu
Phonetic Spelling: (takh-oo')
Definition: quickly
Usage: quickly, speedily.
HELPS Word-studies
5035 taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).

[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]

I think that is a draw.



Let no man  
 

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

DON'T BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN


yes, A CROWN is for ruling and that doesn't start UNTIL THE LORD RETURNS as King of kings and Lord of lords to rule and reign.  No one to RULE until then, no one to rule in heaven.  DON'T LET ANYONE take your crown by not letting anyone deceive/seduce you.  Remain faithful to God.  Don't fall away.  Don't buy and sell.  Don't worship the beast.  THOSE things will make you lose your crown.  

WHO does Gods wrath fall on?  Those who have been faithful and obedient and loving to HIM?  NO His wrath falls upon THEM.  THEM who are not of us.  Them who haven't taken the Messiah as their Lord and Saviour.  THEM who have deceived and taken the mark of the beast.  SO NO, OUR FAITH KEEPS GODS WRATH FROM FALLING ON US.  THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING IN US KEEPS GODS WRATH FROM FALLING UPON US.  

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would NOT  have you to BE IGNORANT , brethren, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

not concerNing THE CHURCH but CONCERNING THE NOW DEAD.  

That is the SUBJECT of THESSALONIANS   4

SO what ABOUT THE DEAD
 

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

THE DEAD ARE COMING BACK WITH HIM, NO CHURCH HAS BEEN RAPTURED THE ONLY THING THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE IS PEOPLE HAVE DIED AND GONE TO HEAVEN, RETURNED TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM AND THOSE PEOPLE,
THE DEAD ONES,   
WILL BE RETURNING

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

not the pre trib raptured church because WHAT IS WRITTEN IS WRITTEN OF THE DEAD, NOT THE CHURCH

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

WHEN ARE CHRISTIANS/THE BODY OF CHRIST/THE CHURCH CAUGHT UP TO MEET IN THE AIR? 

WHEN THE DEAD RETURN.  
 

1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

HOW COMFORTING TO KNOW OUR LOVED ONES AREN'T ROTTING IN THE EARTH AND THEY ARE COMING BACK TO MEET US WHEN CHRIST RETURN TO SET UP THE KINGDOM. 


AND YES, THAT IS WHEN WE WILL STAND BEFORE JESUS.  KNOW WHY?  BECAUSE WE PASSED THE TEST.  WE DID NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST.  WE PUT ON THE GOSPEL ARMOR AND WITHSTOOD.  WE ENDURED TO THE END.  WE REMAINED FAITHFULL WHEN EVERYONE ELSE WAS FALLING AWAY.  WE DIDN'T LOOK TO SAVE OUR LIVES AND IN SO DOING FOUND THEM

THE OPPOSITE OF THOSE WHO DID LOOK TO SAVE THEIR LIVES AND LOST THEM

We cant tell God WE ARE SAVED.  We can't build a tower to heaven be it with brick or scripture.  ALL MEN DEATH AND JUDGMENT.  

ONE time at the very very very END OF AN AGE will those who STOOD IN the POWER OF the FAITH of God against all adversity of the Adversary will a 'group' not suffer death but be changed.   ONCE AND only cause it has to come to a close somehow.  

I have read your response. I need time to consider your position. 

Go well sister.

[DeighAnn]

58 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

I have read your response. I need time to consider your position. 

Go well sister.

Thank you.  You also.  Truly, no hurries   d

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

SO that isn't the 'pre trib rap' verse as it DOESN'T mention heaven nor pre trib at all.  Just the hour of temptation and watching and guarding over us

Truth. And it's no less amazing to me than if it was a sudden disappearance of a vast company(that would be a stunning event).

Jesus is literally saying the whole world will be tested and yet those who keep the word of His patience will be guarded over. Ever consider how that might work out? Would there be a land ark? Scattered small groups cocooned somewhere for the duration? An exodus to a safe country? 

In any case what a great thing He does! Our King is going to commit resources to guard us while the world is being tested, while we are right in the middle of it, while the storm rages all around. IF we keep the word of His patience. 

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I come quickly  LIKE LIGHTENING FROM EAST TO WEST QUICKLY 
 

5035. tachu ►
Strong's Concordance
tachu: quickly
Original Word: ταχύ
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: tachu
Phonetic Spelling: (takh-oo')
Definition: quickly
Usage: quickly, speedily.
HELPS Word-studies
5035 taxý (an adjective, used adverbially, and derived from 5036 /taxýs, "promptly") – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).

[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]

I think that is a draw.



Let no man  
 

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

DON'T BE DECEIVED BY ANY MAN


yes, A CROWN is for ruling and that doesn't start UNTIL THE LORD RETURNS as King of kings and Lord of lords to rule and reign.  No one to RULE until then, no one to rule in heaven.  DON'T LET ANYONE take your crown by not letting anyone deceive/seduce you.  Remain faithful to God.  Don't fall away.  Don't buy and sell.  Don't worship the beast.  THOSE things will make you lose your crown.  

WHO does Gods wrath fall on?  Those who have been faithful and obedient and loving to HIM?  NO His wrath falls upon THEM.  THEM who are not of us.  Them who haven't taken the Messiah as their Lord and Saviour.  THEM who have deceived and taken the mark of the beast.  SO NO, OUR FAITH KEEPS GODS WRATH FROM FALLING ON US.  THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLING IN US KEEPS GODS WRATH FROM FALLING UPON US.  

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would NOT  have you to BE IGNORANT , brethren, CONCERNING THEM WHICH ARE ASLEEP that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

not concerNing THE CHURCH but CONCERNING THE NOW DEAD.  

That is the SUBJECT of THESSALONIANS   4

SO what ABOUT THE DEAD
 

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

THE DEAD ARE COMING BACK WITH HIM, NO CHURCH HAS BEEN RAPTURED THE ONLY THING THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE IS PEOPLE HAVE DIED AND GONE TO HEAVEN, RETURNED TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM AND THOSE PEOPLE,
THE DEAD ONES,   
WILL BE RETURNING

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

not the pre trib raptured church because WHAT IS WRITTEN IS WRITTEN OF THE DEAD, NOT THE CHURCH

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

WHEN ARE CHRISTIANS/THE BODY OF CHRIST/THE CHURCH CAUGHT UP TO MEET IN THE AIR? 

WHEN THE DEAD RETURN.  
 

1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

HOW COMFORTING TO KNOW OUR LOVED ONES AREN'T ROTTING IN THE EARTH AND THEY ARE COMING BACK TO MEET US WHEN CHRIST RETURN TO SET UP THE KINGDOM. 


AND YES, THAT IS WHEN WE WILL STAND BEFORE JESUS.  KNOW WHY?  BECAUSE WE PASSED THE TEST.  WE DID NOT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST.  WE PUT ON THE GOSPEL ARMOR AND WITHSTOOD.  WE ENDURED TO THE END.  WE REMAINED FAITHFULL WHEN EVERYONE ELSE WAS FALLING AWAY.  WE DIDN'T LOOK TO SAVE OUR LIVES AND IN SO DOING FOUND THEM

THE OPPOSITE OF THOSE WHO DID LOOK TO SAVE THEIR LIVES AND LOST THEM

We cant tell God WE ARE SAVED.  We can't build a tower to heaven be it with brick or scripture.  ALL MEN DEATH AND JUDGMENT.  

ONE time at the very very very END OF AN AGE will those who STOOD IN the POWER OF the FAITH of God against all adversity of the Adversary will a 'group' not suffer death but be changed.   ONCE AND only cause it has to come to a close somehow.  

After due consideration, I think that our positions are two far apart to discuss anything. For any discussion to have value it must have a basis. If we are to discuss Revelation 3:10, both you and I must agree on its language. If it says that a trial will come on "all the earth", or the "whole" earth, and you say, "well ... there  are some areas where God can protect us", our approach precludes discussion. If, for instance, Acts Chapter 2:27-34 tells us that David' grave is still in Jerusalem, that David has not left Hades like Jesus and that David has not ascended to heaven, and you say that the dead come from heaven, we have such a wide chasm in how we deal with words that there is no basis for discussion. To have a successful discussion, the basis must be agreed upon.

I hope you will allow me to politely withdraw, although I know you put in much effort.

 

God bless

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

Truth. And it's no less amazing to me than if it was a sudden disappearance of a vast company(that would be a stunning event).

Jesus is literally saying the whole world will be tested and yet those who keep the word of His patience will be guarded over. Ever consider how that might work out? Would there be a land ark? Scattered small groups cocooned somewhere for the duration? An exodus to a safe country? 

In any case what a great thing He does! Our King is going to commit resources to guard us while the world is being tested, while we are right in the middle of it, while the storm rages all around. IF we keep the word of His patience. 

His strength and promises
Christs work
Gospel armor

Hi Diaste,

Will you be needing anything else?

d
 

Edited December 5, 2021 by DeighAnn

[DeighAnn]

The

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

After due consideration, I think that our positions are two far apart to discuss anything. For any discussion to have value it must have a basis. If we are to discuss Revelation 3:10, both you and I must agree on its language. If it says that a trial will come on "all the earth", or the "whole" earth, and you say, "well ... there  are some areas where God can protect us", our approach precludes discussion. If, for instance, Acts Chapter 2:27-34 tells us that David' grave is still in Jerusalem, that David has not left Hades like Jesus and that David has not ascended to heaven, and you say that the dead come from heaven, we have such a wide chasm in how we deal with words that there is no basis for discussion. To have a successful discussion, the basis must be agreed upon.

I hope you will allow me to politely withdraw, although I know you put in much effort.

 

God bless

Hi Ad,
I must respect that and thank you for your time.  


just leave a few verses to ponder on and I pray we all come together as one in GODS TRUTH.   d


Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
If only God would have added 'but not GREAT' 
 

1 Pet 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.  11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Philipians 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need
Philipians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the POWER OF HIS MIGHT

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Ephesians 6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Ephesians 6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

 

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:15 I pray NOT that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

 

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given me: for Thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.


I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND HOW

CHRIST COULD HAVE PRAYED 

'not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil'

WHEN PRE TRIB TEACHES
THE CHURCH IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WORLD TO BE KEPT FROM EVIL

OR

IF HE WAS INDEED COMING TO TAKE THEM OUT OF THE WORLD.  

d