If the Church isn't raptured pre trib, then where does it go after Revelation 4?

[JoeCanada]

On 12/4/2021 at 9:54 AM, DeighAnn said:

Since the church isn't mentioned after Rev 4, it must be 'taken up to heaven' for the marriage.  Is that a TRUTH found in the words of God?

What if that isn't what IS WRITTEN? 

Reading Chapters 2 and 3 a couple of the churches are in some pretty bad shape and a couple in some good shape. How would that effect a pre trib rapture status?  Can the body be divided?  What about those with sins they have not repented of?  Or trespasses?  Are sins taken to heaven?
Do these words describe what a 'bride' of Christs would/should look like?  Do those descriptions describe the priests and those to rule and reign with Christ for the Lords Day to you?  Churches who hold doctrines that God ACTUALLY hates?  

Breaking it down....


WHO IS GIVING US THE INFO
These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand,
who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks 
These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive  
These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges
These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars  
These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David,
he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;


WHAT DOES HE KNOW?
I know thy works,
and thy labour,
and thy patience,
and how thou canst not bear them which are evil
and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars
and hast borne,
and hast patience,
and for my name's sake hast laboured
and hast not fainted. 
that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
I know thy works,
and tribulation,
and poverty, (but thou art rich)
and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.  
I know thy works,
and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is:
and thou holdest fast my name,
and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
I know thy works,
and charity,
and service,
and faith,
and thy patience,
and thy works
and the last to be more than the first.
I know thy works

WHAT PROBLEMS DOES HE FIND?
thou hast left thy first love 
thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication,
and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
And I gave her space to repent of her fornication
and she repented not.
thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked
I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich
and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear
and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten be zealous therefore, and repent.
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel,
to eat things sacrificed unto idols,
and to commit fornication.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.


WHAT DOES HE SEE AS GOOD?
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works
But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. 
Thou hast a few names which have not defiled their garments
they shall walk with me in white for they are worthy.
behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie
behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer:
behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried;
and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death,
and I will give thee a crown of life.



WHAT ARE THE WARNINGS HE GIVES?
I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.  
I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
I will kill her children with death and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts and
I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief,
and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Repent or else I will come unto thee quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

 

 WHAT INSTRUCTIONS DOES THE SPIRIT SAITH UNTO THE CHURCHES?
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations
And he shall rule them with a rod of iron
AS THE VESSELS OF A POTTER SHALL THEY BE BROKEN TO SHIVERS
EVEN AS I RECEIVED OF MY FATHER 
And I will give him the morning star.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment
and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,
but I will confess his name before my Father,
and before his angels.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God,
and he shall go no more out:
and I will write upon him the name of my God,
and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God:
and I will write upon him my new name.
He that hath an ear, let him hear 
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
EVEN AS I ALSO OVERCAME AND AM SET DOWN WITH MY FATHER IN HIS THRONE
He that hath an ear, let him hear 

 

The SPIRIT tells THE ANGELS OF
the churches - where 2 or more are gathered in His name/the gatherings OF THE HE'S AND HIM'S/the assemblies of the he's and him's/ the congregations of the he's and him's  

Not once is A CHURCH promised anything.  Not once is a GROUP of people promised anything.  The only promises are given to INDIVIDUALS of a gathering place. 

 

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

SO in answer to where does the church go, IT DOESN'T GO ANYWHERE.

BUT it changes.  

The churches of today are worshipping our Father who art in heaven.  

Soon there will be someone PROCLAIMING TO BE GOD HERE ON THE EARTH. 

Someone the whole world will worship after believing him to be Our Lord and Saviour returned(having been deceived a man)

We know for sure there is a 'FALLING AWAY' before the TRUE LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS returns

So the churches of the tribulation will be here on earth but they will no longer be worshipping OUR FATHER WHO ART and STILL will be in heaven.  

THAT is, I BELIEVE, where the church will be for the 'tribulation'.  

If you want to be KEPT from that hour - know that 'kept' is something that comes from WITHIN
If you don't want Gods wrath to fall upon you,  then make sure you are wearing the gospel armor to withstand the fiery darts of Satan
If you want to be delivered - read about how Paul was delivered. 

If you don't think 'the church' will be tested, find a verse that says just that.  
If you still think it will go pre trib then find one verse WHERE IT IS WRITTEN.  ONE.  JUST ONE. 

Neither myself nor anyone else can tell you if this is truth or not on the HOLY SPIRIT CAN do that.  And that takes some knee time sometimes.  

d
 

Hi DeighAnn,

Great topic sister. 

I have heard this same argument an untold number of times that the "church" is not mentioned after Rev 4. And..... true enough, the "WORD" church is absent after Rev 4.

Who is the Book of Revelation to? 

It tells us in the very first line of Rev.... "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His....(and here it is).............. His BONDSERVANTS....

Are the BONDSERVANTS the Bride of Christ...The Church?.......Indeed!

Do we see "BONDSERVANTS" anywhere past Chapter 4?

Yes we do.... In Rev 7:3.... 11:18....19:2....19:5....22:3....22:6

Paul calls the "church" ....the Saints and the Faithful....Ephesians 1:1 for example.

Do we see "SAINTS" anywhere past Chapter 4 in Revelation?....Yes:

Rev 5:8....8:3.... 8:4....11:18....13:7....13:10....14:12....16:6....17:6....18:20....18:24....19:8....20:9

Is the CHURCH the Bride of Christ?....Indeed. Do we see BRIDE OF CHRIST anywhere after Chapter 4?.... Yes:

18:23....19:7....21:2....21:9....22:17

I have to go for now.... again, great topic!

Edited December 6, 2021 by JoeCanada

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi DeighAnn,

Great topic sister. 

I have heard this same argument an untold number of times that the "church" is not mentioned after Rev 4. And..... true enough, the "WORD" church is absent after Rev 4.

Who is the Book of Revelation to? 

It tells us in the very first line of Rev.... "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His....(and here it is).............. His BONDSERVANTS....

Are the BONDSERVANTS the Bride of Christ...The Church?.......Indeed!

Do we see "BONDSERVANTS" anywhere past Chapter 4?

Yes we do.... In Rev 7:3.... 11:18....19:2....19:5....22:3....22:6

Paul calls the "church" ....the Saints and the Faithful....Ephesians 1:1 for example.

Do we see "SAINTS" anywhere past Chapter 4 in Revelation?....Yes:

Rev 5:8....8:3.... 8:4....11:18....13:7....13:10....14:12....16:6....17:6....18:20....18:24....19:8....20:9

Is the CHURCH the Bride of Christ?....Indeed. Do we see BRIDE OF CHRIST anywhere after Chapter 4?.... Yes:

18:23....19:7....21:2....21:9....22:17

I have to go for now.... again, great topic!

Hi JOE, long time, 

Feel free to drop by with more!!!  GOOD STUFF.  I think I am going to tackle all the topics by showing HOW we are delivered, kept from, escape and all the other 'conclusions and suppositions' until there is no where left but what is written.  I love the work given here.  

Thank you THANK YOU GOD.  

d

[The Light]

You say "If the Church isn't raptured pre trib, then where does it go after Revelation 4?"

Since the Church is raptured in Rev 4, no need to ask this question.

We see the Church in Rev 5, the kings and priests in heaven.

The question you should be asking is..... Since the Church is raptured in Rev 4 who are the saints that we see on earth after Rev 4?

[Justin Adams]

The OP seems to have got some things wrong about Revelation. Verse cherry-picking never works well.  

[Riverwalker]

I would say of the seven churches spoken to in revelation, only one is pure, and only one promised that will be

Rev 3: 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth

The others are outright dismissed or given a chance to repent.

But I agree with Pre-trib because of what Jesus said to the church of Philadelphia ...the the test will come upon the WHOLE WORLD (which would imply the church will not be on the earth.  (I also lean to the possibility of mid trib because it does not get real; nasty until then)

 

[Riverwalker]

21 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

The OP seems to have got some things wrong about Revelation. Verse cherry-picking never works well.  

and yet you offer nothing in return

[Justin Adams]

9 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

and yet you offer nothing in return

I have posted elsewhere about this. 

[other one]

Where does the church (Jesus's followers) go after Chapter 4.  Well they all (we all) die in Chapter 13 and return with Jesus when he comes to throw Satan in prison for a thousand years at the end of the age.