WOFF

[RGR]

Hank Hannegraff, though sometimes making sense, is in a bit of financial dire straits. I read in Christianity Today that he bought a car, had his kids' computers repaired, paid his country club fees and some other stuff out of the ministry funds. The person who blew the whistle on him was allowed to, shall we say, seek other forms of employment, and not by choice. So, seems to me it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

[Guest dove2]

I was just thinking, I remember way back when, I used to watch The 700 Club regularly.

[Guest New Creature]

That is beautiful story Pasty about the nursing home. I hope that I know when it will happen for me.

On the subject on tithing, when I first came back to the Lord and didn't know anything I heard Kenneth Copeland talking about the tithe. He said that if we didn't tithe then we were stealing from God. He said that if you were married to an unbeliever who didn't tithe then we would get nothing from God because He looks at us as one flesh. Plus he said that if we didn't have a church then we should give the tithe to the place where we get fed spiritually.

Well I was devastated, I cried and cried because I believed that I was stealing from God and there was nothing I could do about it. You see I had no church and I have a husband that knows nothing about spiritual things let alone about tithing. What was I to do go behind his back. I did sometimes, but we are poor and he knows what we have for money. My mom finally convinced me that I was not living under some curse because I couldn't tithe right now. She has the same minded husband, and my mom has always had God in a very real way in her life. She has had great blessings in time of great need and never did she sow a seed first.

[Guest mom2three]

QUOTE]

We have a friend that one of the WOF teachers came straight to him in the audience and told him that the Lord told him to give $5000, well our friend put the money on the credit card and it took forever to pay it off. I have forgotten who the preacher was or I would name him.

God says, "Owe no man anything" I don't remember the rest of the scripture and need to look it up. I do know it says, "Owe no man anything." The thing being these people are still causing people to go in debt daily. Some don't pay their bills because they believe the money will be wiser spent by sending it to the ministry. Other's go in debt on credit cards to give to the Lord. This is not God's way. These teachers even encourage people to give by using their credit cards. Not only is a person giving on the credit card, then there is interest and then paying them off over a period of time. This puts one in a bind also.

Preachers even say if you can't pay your tithe then put it on a credit card. Nope! This is not what God says to do! This is pure greed on the part of the preacher and twisting the scriptures.

.

[Guest mom2three]

Another thought. Since everything we have comes from the Lord and the tithe is returning to God a tenth of that in my opinion a tenth of your time in minsitry could also be considered tithing. I could be wrong but I have always held fast to this.

Kenneth Copeland is wrong to say those things. I would also like to have idea as to where he finds this in the Bible? I know that the old testiment makes reference to the tithe in a few places but the new testinemt doesn't mention a whole lot a bout it. Wasn't tithing under the law. With Jesus redemtive work on the cross aren't we living under grace and not the law?

[Guest dove2]

There is a double standard. They only give to each other supposedly. I don' t know if they are giving to the other or just have them there supposed to start some kind of other ministry so they can take up another offering. If they are such people of faith why don't they ask God for the money and let the people give what they want instead of breaking everyone. I sound bitter. I really am not. I feel for the people that still follow these movements and listen to their doctrine. Yes, if they really believed what they taught, they would go to God for all of their needs. They would not have to take money from people who could not afford to give. Little people that are going without their medicine. That really upsets me.

[Guest dove2]

Another thought. Since everything we have comes from the Lord and the tithe is returning to God a tenth of that in my opinion a tenth of your time in minsitry could also be considered tithing. I could be wrong but I have always held fast to this.

Kenneth Copeland is wrong to say those things. I would also like to have idea as to where he finds this in the Bible? I know that the old testiment makes reference to the tithe in a few places but the new testinemt doesn't mention a whole lot a bout it. Wasn't tithing under the law. With Jesus redemtive work on the cross aren't we living under grace and not the law?

The reason I am not in bed at 4:30 in the morning and have been up alnight it because I was writing a paper about tithing. After writing it, I didn't know whether to post it or not. I didn't want this post to turn into a debate and get off the subject of WOF, even though this paper, which turned out to be 5 1/2 pages long had to do with WOF and where they get some of their doctrine from. And how they lie to us on certain things. I felt the Lord wanted me to post it and after writing it I got to questioning so put it in a folder for now. Maybe I am just tired from being up all night and can think better tomorrow on whether to post it or not. Yes, we can consider giving of our time as giving to God. You have made so many statement that makes me want to post about tithes. Tithes are under the law. You are touching on that but you don't seem to know if you are right or not. We are living under grace and not the law for a fact. In the New Testament in some verses tithe means to owe a debt. We don't owe a debt. Jesus paid all of our debts on the cross. Talk later.

[Guest dove2]

That is beautiful story Pasty about the nursing home. I hope that I know when it will happen for me.

On the subject on tithing, when I first came back to the Lord and didn't know anything I heard Kenneth Copeland talking about the tithe. He said that if we didn't tithe then we were stealing from God. He said that if you were married to an unbeliever who didn't tithe then we would get nothing from God because He looks at us as one flesh. Plus he said that if we didn't have a church then we should give the tithe to the place where we get fed spiritually.

Well I was devastated, I cried and cried because I believed that I was stealing from God and there was nothing I could do about it. You see I had no church and I have a husband that knows nothing about spiritual things let alone about tithing. What was I to do go behind his back. I did sometimes, but we are poor and he knows what we have for money. My mom finally convinced me that I was not living under some curse because I couldn't tithe right now. She has the same minded husband, and my mom has always had God in a very real way in her life. She has had great blessings in time of great need and never did she sow a seed first.

New Creature... I assure you that you are not stealing from God. If you will read Malachi and see who God is really talking to you will know who was really stealing from God. Let me give you a hint. It was the preists that God was talking to and the priests didn't put the tithes into the storehouse and they were not giving to the poor, the widow and the fatherless. They were giving God lame, blind and crippled sacrifices. God was very upset with them. They were the ones robbing God. And since they were robbing God, then they made the whole nation to sin because they were the spiritual head of the nation. Tithing is under the law. I may tell you some more after I get some sleep. And after you have time to think on this a little while.

[Faith1]

Dove my sis,

I think you should share the truths God has shown you on tithing but that is between you and the Lord :il: (just thought I would give ya a little nudge in case He lays it on your heart to post your paper

In Christ

Guessa

[The Journey]

Hank Hannegraff, though sometimes making sense, is in a bit of financial dire straits. I read in Christianity Today that he bought a car, had his kids' computers repaired, paid his country club fees and some other stuff out of the ministry funds. The person who blew the whistle on him was allowed to, shall we say, seek other forms of employment, and not by choice. So, seems to me it's like the pot calling the kettle black.

Good Morning!

The CT article goes on to say that Mr. Hannegraff has placed himself under the authority of an outiside ministry financial consultant to prevent this in the future. He is certainly not perfect.

I don't know rollingThunder if your judgement on him is correct. He is a scoffer? Because he exposes some of the rotting garbage filling our Churches? The most usual response by those "of the faith" movement is denial. Its the "you don't understand us because you don't walk by faith." Walking by faith has nothing to do with being healthy, wealthy and wise.

- Steve