Is "The Law" a Curse?

[appy]

@Alive

This thread is in response to the following statement by me which is spoken of in Galatians 3.

 

On 12/28/2021 at 6:40 AM, appy said:

Those who put themselves back under the law put themselves right back under a curse. In fact scripture says if you do so, you are “severed from Christ”,

 

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, appy said:

@Alive

This thread is in response to the following statement by me which is spoken of in Galatians 3.

 

Thanks, appy.

I was responding to something else.

The language Paul uses can be misunderstood, because nobody can be justified or earn righteousness by the law because nobody but one hasd ever fully kept the law and not sin...Christ.

To break one law, no matter how small, is to have failed--law kills because it can't be kept by fallen man who would seek righteousness through the works. This led us to Christ. In this sense and others, the Law was a gracious act of God. Always Grace. Always.

In what I posted of Romans--Paul is in part addressing the arrogance of the Jews having the law and creating a context between the Jews with the law and the gentiles without. It is a wonderfully masterful work of the Spirit through Paul.

I get carried away because Romans is an absolute jewel. All of Romans.

LOL

[appy]

@Alive

Yes I agree with you about what the book of Romans had to say.  But it doesn't seem to find a home in those who say that if one doesn't worship on the sabbath only.  They are not keeping the 10 commandments as a whole.  They insist that in order to appease God, keeping the sabbath is necessary.

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, appy said:

@Alive

Yes I agree with you about what the book of Romans had to say.  But it doesn't seem to find a home in those who say that if one doesn't worship on the sabbath only.  They are not keeping the 10 commandments as a whole.  They insist that in order to appease God, keeping the sabbath is necessary.

Yes---it is an old story isn't it?

And yet scripture is so clear in that regard.

[MrBear]

3 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Don’t we sin every day?

 

Yes we do But before Jesus’s death we would have to go offer sacrifice as atonement for our sins, with Jesus’s sacrifice he ascended to become our high priest in heaven and the barrier or shroud  between us and God was torn  so we can pray for forgiveness and Jesus being our high priest mediates for us.. he lived as a we did and faced all of our temptations so he is our perfect mediator, it won’t stop us from sinning but we are no longer under the condemnation if we come to him in prayer meaningful in our hearts 🥰 

We as former worldly people growing up in the world have been programmed to respond instinctively in worldly ways and as believers we are no longer under the old master 🌎, so our goal as believers is to reprogram ourselves to respond as our new master our Father would deem Righteous 😇

It is a journey we all as believers must embark on, but God is understanding and he gives us a guide in the form of the Holy Spirit who can lead us in the right path if we choose to listen

Its a complete system.. Our guide ( the Holy Spirit) our mediator or high priest ( Jesus) And our Father who is waiting for us to be joined with him, together he set this system in place knowing we would struggle with worldly influences and sin

And praise God he did 🥰 and I thank him daily for that 🙏

SHALOM❤️

[Selah7]

According to my understanding, the curse in Galatians 3:10 is to live under a set of laws and regulations that prevent you from ever truly receiving salvation. The curse can only be lifted by Jesus Christ.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith."

- Galatians 3:10-11 (NKJV)

According to Deuteronomy 27:26, the law cannot carry you through; if you break one portion of the law, you break the entire law.

'Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law.' And all the people shall say, 'Amen!'

- Deuteronomy 27:26 (NKJV)

It is only in Christ Jesus that the curse is removed.

[adamjedgar]

5 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The Sinai Covenant it was not for all the children of Issac and not for all the children of Abraham, 

it was for Abraham's children through Issac, and for Isaac's son Jacob and all his household, and only for those who kept the Covenant of Circumcision.  

Faith was not required because the children at eight days old cannot or have no idea what was going on at the time of Circumcision. 

Even the parents did not have to confess faith at the time of Circumcision, we could have unbelieving parents Circumcising their children. They did what was required by the Law and that's all about it.

They were under the Law and they were judged by what the Law was asking them to do, and that was to obey in keeping their religious Calendar. 

Someone maybe without sin, but he can be cut off from God and the people because he did not keep a religious ordinance. 

All his life he may be perfect but one time he disobeyed the Passover and he was out in the cold till the next year.

He was not allowed to continue in the Law till next years Passover,

The Sinai Covenant was ratified quite long time thousands years before the Farisees were formed.  

God made his covenant with the children of Israel.

The promise originally given to Abraham is that he would become a nation.  ..ie the Israelites ..is children of Israel.

Your claim the Sinai covenant didn't apply to them all is ridiculous.

 

The covenant to the Israelites builds upon the promise given to Adam and Eve. I don't know how you can be so blind to the point of these promises and covenants?

The point was, God was going to send a saviour to redeem his people back to him for their transgression. Do you not understand that this happened BECAUSE GODS ETERNAL LAW HAD BEEN BROKEN!

All have sinned and fall short because of Adam. The covenants were promises of salvation. You seem to think these promises were exclusive...that is because the wivestails you have been taught tell you that prior to Jesus death only Israelites could be saved. That is a bogus theology...how on earth do you think the mixed multitude also left Egypt and were given the same 10comnandment speech by Moses at Sinai? Do you not make the connection between them, the parable of the good Samaritan, and the Gospel going to the Gentiles? They are all required to be under the covenant given at Sinai because it's based on the same promise given to Abraham and to Eve!

You keep saying the two covenants are different ..quote proof of that please and I will then show you exactly why you are listening to wives tails.

[adamjedgar]

5 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Also about the word "coursed" in the context Paul use it.

There is a distinction to be made between the courses listed in the book of Leviticus for those under the Law who did not do what the Law was asking them to do....

And a out the context Paul use the same word in a different context that is that the Law could not depart Life, the life of God to them , to removed the separation or bring the Vail down, or removed the vail between God and them selves , the practitioners of the Law. 

How about the rest of the world, what about them? 

God is promising that the Gentiles will worship him and the Law could not do that too.

At the time of Jesus Christ death we find out how was that done, the vail between God and the rest of the world turned, out of the way for everyone Jew or Gentile. 

 

The law is not cursed.. the law is perfect 

The wages of sin (transgression of the law) is a universal truth that applies to all creation. You keep thinking that without sin the is no law.

You have it backwards! 

I repeat a text I have quote that proves the historical wives tails about this completely bogus.. 

Genesis Chapter 2...

God "COMMANDED" Adam ...

do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. In the day you eat it, you shall die (death is transgression of the law).

 

What no one here has yet pointed out is that none of this is about 10 rules, or 600 bylaws.. it's about a single one...obedience!

 

Samuel said to king Saul, to obey is better than to sacrifice. God wants obedience...that is all he has ever wanted.

 

This nonsense about the law being a curse is in all honesty going to prevent people from being saved! God cannot save anyone who follows in the footsteps of Cain, nadab and abihu, king Saul, or indeed Ananias and Sapphira!

The truth is, you cannot be saved by a set of rules because you cannot perfectly keep them...but, that does not change the absolute irrefutable fact that the rules are there!

You are saved because Jesus, the one man who could keep them perfectly, places his costume on you...essentially that sinful dirty evil little person(you) now looks like Jesus...so the gatekeeper lets him in!

That is how this thing called the cloak of Jesus righteousness works...it's the most wonderful form of magic there is...true magic that can only come from the being that created everything from nothing and who has always existed. 

[adamjedgar]

I have an illustration that i think better explains what the cloak of Jesus righteousness actually is and why the new covenant is not about Jesus throwing out the law.

Modern christians who worship Sunday (and its almost exclusively this group) are forced to take the new covenant line because its the only way they think they can rationalise the theology that one does NOT have to keep the Sabbath. 

It is a universal con that is of the devil and Revelation 14:12 proves it

"12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus." (these are all the commandments of God, not just 1 or 2 of them)

 

Now for my illustration...

If you read my previous post, you notice i say that the cloak of Jesus righteousness is a magic trick...the gatekeeper thinks that the sinner before him is actually Jesus and therefore the sinner is judged righteous and let in.

If you recall the story of Jacob and Esau, how did Jacob steal Esaus birthright?

He placed animal skins over himself such that Isaac thought that Jacob was in fact really Esau (even though his voice was clearly the voice of Jacob). Isaac ignored the voice of a person who did not deserve the be given the birthright and in doing so gave the blessing to Jacob! 

That ignoring of the voice of Jacob is the entire point of all of this...

- We are sinners

- We (like Jacob) are not worthy or deserving of the birthright that is rightfully to be only given to the firstborn 

- Jesus is the firstborn of all creation, only to him is the birthright to be given, only he is worthy to receive it because only he has kept the law perfectly.

- through our faith and belief (that the trick can work) we take on the animal skins (the cloak of his righteousness) and "boldy come before the throne" (Hebrews 4:16) to receive the birthright blessing

- The Father sees Jesus and chooses to ignore the voice of Jacob (the sinner underneath) and places his blessing upon us...we receive our birthright...salvation!

 

The birthright story in Genesis 27 is the most wonderful illustration of exactly how the cloak of Jesus righteousness really works. Jacob knew all of the commandments of God, he didnt receive the birthright because he perfectly kept all of Gods commands...he received the birthright because he had faith that the cloak being placed over him would be good enough to cover his shortcomings (ie that he was not in fact the firstborn), faith that he would be judged and deemed worthy and therefore receive it!

 

Now i the legalists will argue oh that was an awful deception! However, we are looking at this from a sinful perspective so I have to ask, are we not all doing exactly the same as Jacob when we take on the cloak of Jesus? Are we not putting our hands up for something that we are not deserving of?

That is the point actually, that is the meaning of Grace i think. WE go bodly in before the throne as pretenders, God sees through the deception just like Isaac did but he chooses to ignore "the voice of Jacob", the unworthy, is satisfied with the righteousness of Jesus covering us, and pronounces his blessing upon us anyway!

 

That story of Jacob and Esau and the birthright is a wonderful analogy given to us 2000 years before the incarnation of Jesus...righteousness by faith was not a brand new concept in the new testament...here it is found in Genesis chapter 27!

Edited December 31, 2021 by adamjedgar

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, appy said:

These discussions always come back full circle about the sabbath t I never said the law was abolished in my thread. We would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. What was intended to bring life actually brought death. Through the law we become conscious of our sin. Sin brings condemnation and death. The Old Testament said that anyone who failed to uphold the law, was cursed. Not just part of it, but all of it. (Deuteronomy 27:26) God's justice demands death in payment for sin. Any sin, not just certain sins.

“The wages of sin is death” The law is good, but we end up under a curse because man can not keep the law perfectly. No one after becoming a Christian can ever say he or she has never sinned after becoming a Christian. People in general speaking say.... but the bible says.... “if you love me, you will keep my commandments” but we are not obeying that command when we do any of the following listed below.

Does anyone really think that as long as they don't lie, don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't commit murder and keep the sabbath, that God will look the other way when they sin in other ways? That is the worst sort of lie ever.  And certainly hypocrisy.

Remaining angry for an extended time                Arrogance            
Verbally  or emotionally abusing others              Bitterness
Desiring praise from others                                 Hypocrisy
Causing divisions among others                          Quarreling
Not recognizing your own faults                         Boasting
Desiring something forbidden                             Complaining
Causing strife among others                               Conceit            
Expressing unkind thoughts of others                Greed
Betraying the trust of others                               Judging
Refusing to forgive others                                   Backbiting
Being ungrateful                                                   Slandering others       
Using foul language                                             Reviling others
Ridiculing another person                                   Foolish talk
Breaking an agreement                                        Using foul language
provoking someone else to anger                       Name calling
Secretly hating others in your heart                    Lovers of self
Being fond of gratification                                  Being deceitful
Pride                                                                     Craftiness

Hey appy,

Correct me if I have a misconception. There appears to be different rules for the various covenants, or dispensations if you will (Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic).

I don't want to take the following verse out of context, but all my commentaries are pretty much silent on an explanation pre-Moses.  

Romans 5:13 (KJV) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Paul goes on to explain it from Moses to Jesus, but doesn't seem to elaborate any from Adam through Abraham, as far as "imputed" to anyone.

Imputed = 1823 ἐλλογάω (ellogaō): vb. [see also 1824]; ≡ Str 1677; TDNT 2.516—LN 57.226 charge to an account (Phm 18+)

1677.  ἐλλογέω ĕllŏgĕō, el-log-eh´-o; from 1722 and 3056 (in the sense of account); to reckon in, i.e. attribute:—impute, put on account.

The way I'm currently interpreting the word "imputed" in Romans 5:13, and commented upon through verse 17. That prior to Moses there was no law, so legally, sin could not be charged to anyone's account?

In our secular laws, ignorance is no excuse. But when booked and charged, the specific law broken is cited, recorded and put forth, followed by sentencing if convicted.

If my understanding is close to correct, this raises a bunch of other questions? Saved by faith has always been the standard in any dispensation. But what about personal accountability of sin at the Great White Throne Judgment, for those prior to Moses? 

Any thoughts?