A Prewrath Rapture question

[truth7t7]

14 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Hello Truth 7t7-

Yes, everybody, both good and bad, from Adam until the Second Coming will be resurrected and judged on the last day at the Second Coming. 

 

There is one resurrection in which both good and bad are resurrected on the same day...All that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth...not the righteous hear his voice at one time and come out of their graves, and then later the wicked hear his voice at another time and come forth. 

The example is the good and bad fish analogy, wherein the net was let down at one time and drawn in only once when the net was full of good and bad fish...it wasn't let down to get good fish, then let down again at another time for the bad fish..

The saints are considered in the first resurrection because they are in Christ who was the first that rose from the dead and was glorified. So the resurrection unto life is considered the first, or the best resurrection compared to the resurrection unto damnation. The word 'first' is 'proto' in the Greek and was translated 'best' when it says the father of the prodigal son in Luke 15:22 said 'Bring in hither the 'best' robe..." It is a comparative statement being used in this context...not that this was the only robe he had, but this one was the best one. This is also alluded to when it says they refused deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection.

Daniel 12 describes it in a similar way...many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake...some to life, which would be the better resurrection, and some to everlasting shame. Here again, the righteous did not awake at one time and the unrighteous awake at a different time...they all heard the voice of the Son of God and came forth as in John 5:28.

Paul described it that there would be 'a (singular) resurrection of the dead, both of the just and of the unjust. Not there would be two resurrections, one for the righteous and another for the wicked at a different time. There is no time gap between the resurrection of the two groups. Both are resurrected on the last day at the Second Coming at the same time.

 The scripture does say there is a first resurrection, but it does not say the resurrection of the wicked is the second resurrection. It does say there is a second death, but that does not mean there was a second resurrection.

When it says all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth, it does not specify the righteous came forth first...if it would be argued from silence one could say the wicked dead came forth first.. what it does say is 'all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth..."

 

 After Armageddon, it states in Zech. 14:16 that "...everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts and to keep the feast of tabernacles'

The nations convert at the Second Coming as shown in a number of scriptures...

Ps. 72:11 - "All kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.."

Zech. 2:11 - "...many nations shall be joined unto the Lord in that day, and shall be my people..."

Micah 4:2 -"Many nations shall come and say, come and let us go up unto the mountain of the Lord....and we will walk in his ways and he will teach us his paths...for the law shall go forth of Zion and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Is. 2:4 "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks...nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore."

Daniel 7:14 "And there was given him dominion, and glory and a kingdom, that all people nations and languages should serve him..."

So looking in particular at Is. 2:4 '...and he shall judge among the nations and shall rebuke many people..."

So what is happening here? He is going to judge the nations and rebuke them. What nations? The nations that are left after Armageddon. Does it say he rebukes the nations and kills them all? No, it does not. It says he rebukes them. And what is their response to his rebuke? They convert as it says...they beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks..."

This is the same theme in Daniel 2:35 when the Stone smites the image on the feet and the Stone becomes a great mountain and fills the whole earth.

What does that mean? The interpretation is Dan. 7:27 - "And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him." 

Of course the imagery of the Stone smiting the image on the feet with the ten toes is the Second Coming...does it say at this time that he burns up the whole earth? No, it does not. It says the kingdom that is under the whole heaven is given to the people of the saints of the most high...

It is even more specific in Rev. 11:15 when it says 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ." 

These are existing kingdoms that come under the jurisdiction of Jesus at the Second Coming. These are the nations the saints are given power over as it states in Rev. 2:26

'To him that overcomes and keeps my works unto the end will I give power over the nations..."

God does not give his saints power over nations that have been burned up...The saints and Jesus then rule over them with a rod of iron as it states in Rev. 2:27-

"And he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers..."

The saints are not ruling over nations that do not exist...these existing nations that are on the earth at the Second Coming are rebuked and come under the authority and dominion of Jesus and the saints. This is the kingdom Daniel saw that became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

In Rev. 15:4 the song of the redeemed are saying '...Who shall not fear thee O Lord, and glorify thy name, for all nations shall come and worship before thee for thy judgments are made manifest."

These are are the ones John saw out of every nation kindred and tribe that no man could number...The angel told John these were those who came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb...these are the nations who were converted at the rebuke of the Lord."

The same group are identified in Rev. 19:5 "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations...and he shall rule them with a rod of iron..."

Here again he smites the nations, but that does not mean he kills them all, for the very next phrase says 'he shall rule them with a rod of iron...'

These are the nations the saints are given power over...his 'smiting' them does not mean he killed them, it means he rebuked them and then he rules over them.

There is a judgment for both the living and the dead at the second coming, and they are not the same. The living nations get rebuked and converted at the Second Coming, but when the wicked dead are resurrected there is no opportunity to change...The sheep and goats, wheat and tares, and good and bad fish, and others,  are all referring to the resurrection of the dead, both good and bad. The wicked dead are cast into the fire in these contexts, but those who are alive at the Second Coming still have opportunity to repent. 

So when do the saints rule over the nations? If the nations are all killed at the Second Coming there are no nations to rule over. If there are no nations to rule over then God would not have made them kings and priests. A king and a priest needs people to rule over and to intercede for. There are many more scriptures on this. 

Yes

 

As we just went over some of the scriptures it is plain to see the nations and this world are not burned with fire at the Second Coming, for when Jesus comes he sets up his kingdom on this earth and the saints rule with him over the nations...if the existing earth is dissolved by fire at the Second Coming, then there would be no nations to rule over...no nations would be left after Armageddon, but it specifically states the nations that are left will go up to Jerusalem to worship the King.

In Rev. 20:7 it states the devil will be loosed out of his prison after the 1000 years are finished...and then what does it say? It says he "goes out to deceive the nations that are in the four quarters of the earth..."

How is he going out to deceive the nations that are in the four quarters of the earth that has been burned up 1000 years before? He doesn't because the earth was still here 1000 years after Jesus came.

The devil gathered these nations together...(they were still existing at the end of the 1000 years) and then what happened? They went up upon the breadth of the earth (that was still in existence and had not been burned up at the Second Coming) and compassed about the camp of the saints, (the camp that was upon the earth that was still in existence from the beginning of the 1000 years) and fire came down from heaven and destroyed them all...

So the fire did not come down from heaven and destroy nations that were not in existence because they had already been destroyed 1000 years before.

There are many other scriptures on this.

Yes, it is true God will create a new heaven and a new earth but it will not be at the Second Coming, but rather at the end of the 1000 years.

There is another resurrection for people who lived and died during the 1000 year period, which is called the Great White Throne. This is not the same resurrection and day of Judgment that happens at the second coming, but rather occurs 1000 years after the Second Coming.

The resurrection and judgment that takes place at the end of the 1000 years cannot be the same one that happened 1000 years before. It is impossible. The scripture specifically states 'the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished.' Without going in to the identity of who the rest of the dead are, it stands to reason, you can not have one resurrection take place and then another one taking place 1000 years later be the same resurrection happening at the same time.

Yes the heavens shall pass away and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, and it will happen in the day of the Lord...however this is the portion of scripture that Peter tells us not to be ignorant of that one day is as a 1000 years and 1000 years as one day...To say the heavens and the earth are dissolve in the day of the Lord is still scriptural because it does happen at the end of the 1000 years...still within the Day of the Lord.

Just because John saw a new heaven and a new earth, or that he said 'I make all things new,' is not proof it happens at the Second Coming...He is just writing that he saw this take place...its up to us to locate when it took place.

There is no mention of John seeing a new heaven and a new earth until after the 1000 years...as it reads at the end of Rev 19 it is describing the battle of Armageddon and the fowls eating the flesh of the captains and kings...what happens next?

Rev. 20:1  says a mighty angel came and bound the Devil for a thousand years...then what did he see? He saw thrones and they sat upon them...Who is this? These are the saints sitting upon thrones ruling the nations for a thousand years...what happens after that? He sees the devil is loosed at the end of the 1000 years...what happens next? The devil goes about to deceive the nations that are on the earth...then Gog and Magog...then the devil is cast into the lake of fire...then what happens?

He sees a great white throne and it from HERE that he sees the heaven and earth flee away...not 1000 years before this. THIS is where he sees the new heaven and earth and there was no more sea. THIS is where he sees death and hell give up the dead...this is 1000 years later than the Second Coming...this resurrection is NOT THE SAME ONE as at the Second Coming...THIS is where death and hell are cast into the lake of fire...not 1000 years before.

This shows the powers of heaven being shaken..not burned up

 

This is not the Second coming or the earth being burned up...

 

Yes, those of Sodom were burned up..the whole world was not...

 

This is concerning the wicked people who were persecuting the believers at Thessalonica..Paul was saying God was going to take vengeance upon them when he comes...he is referring to these wicked people specifically and the wicked dead as a whole being resurrected and punished with everlasting fire at the Second Coming as shown in the wheat and tares, sheep and goats and others...it does not mean everyone gets killed at the Second Coming

This scripture is very illustrative of what has been referred to with the judgment of the living and of the dead...the wicked dead are resurrected and burned in the fire...those who are alive at the Second Coming will be converted, or by this analogy, being washed in the blood of the Lamb is like fullers soap...washing something does not mean you burn it up

 

The earth does not melt until the end of the 1000 years...you have to place these scriptures in their proper place...just because it says 'he uttered his voice' is not proof this is the second coming...the heathen will rage and the kingdoms will be moved at the end of the 1000 years....Gog and Magog

 

First angel sounded...fire mingled with blood

Second angel sounded...great mountain burning with fire cast into the sea

Third part of men killed by fire, smoke and by brim stone that proceeds out of their mouth

If any man hurts the two prophets fire proceeds out of their mouth and kills them

Fourth angel power was given him to scorch men with fire

Just because it says a 'fire devoured before him does not mean the earth was burned up....

The word for 'presence' is defined in Strongs #6440 here: 

This fits with what John said in Rev. 20 :11 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it from whose face the heaven and earth fled away..."

This happens at the end of the 1000 years, not at the second coming

A fire devouring before him does not mean the earth is burned up

 

Yes, there are rebukes mentioned in some of the above scriptures where men are scorched with fire, but this does not mean the earth is burned up. 

 This is what happens to the MEN at Armageddon...it does not mean the earth is burned up...

 

This is Gog and Magog at the end of the 1000 years...Fire comes down out of heaven and destroys all the sinners and the earth and the elements shall melt with fervent heat...

 

This is talking about the nations who gathered themselves together at the end of the 1000 years around the camp of the saints and fire comes down and devours THEM, not the whole earth. Although this is indeed the time frame when the earth will melt, this scripture is specifically saying fire would come down and devour the people. 

Rev. 20:3 specifically says the devil goes out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth...so there were nations, and nations are people,  and people are physical mortal humans...

Rev. 20:4 says he saw thrones and they sat upon them... Thrones would mean a kingdom, kingdom would imply they were ruling over someone, and thrones would mean someone was sitting on them by the phrase 'and they (the saints) sat upon them...

Rev. 20:6 states the saints were reigning as kings and priests...so there was a kingdom or they wouldn't be kings, and they were ruling over people, and people are physical mortal humans, and the thrones were on the earth so there were earthly thrones and an earthly kingdom.

I don't know what you mean by Rev. 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords (spiritual) angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ

If 100% percent spiritual realm means physical human beings, and a physical earth then physical no longer means physical...The 'time' element is sometimes mistaken when the KJV says 'time shall be no more...' the better translation is 'he will delay no longer...'

 

Yes.

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound From (One Specific Purpose) As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

Revelation 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

[truth7t7]

15 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Hello Truth 7t7-

Yes, everybody, both good and bad, from Adam until the Second Coming will be resurrected and judged on the last day at the Second Coming. 

 

There is one resurrection in which both good and bad are resurrected on the same day...All that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth...not the righteous hear his voice at one time and come out of their graves, and then later the wicked hear his voice at another time and come forth. 

The example is the good and bad fish analogy, wherein the net was let down at one time and drawn in only once when the net was full of good and bad fish...it wasn't let down to get good fish, then let down again at another time for the bad fish..

The saints are considered in the first resurrection because they are in Christ who was the first that rose from the dead and was glorified. So the resurrection unto life is considered the first, or the best resurrection compared to the resurrection unto damnation. The word 'first' is 'proto' in the Greek and was translated 'best' when it says the father of the prodigal son in Luke 15:22 said 'Bring in hither the 'best' robe..." It is a comparative statement being used in this context...not that this was the only robe he had, but this one was the best one. This is also alluded to when it says they refused deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection.

Daniel 12 describes it in a similar way...many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake...some to life, which would be the better resurrection, and some to everlasting shame. Here again, the righteous did not awake at one time and the unrighteous awake at a different time...they all heard the voice of the Son of God and came forth as in John 5:28.

Paul described it that there would be 'a (singular) resurrection of the dead, both of the just and of the unjust. Not there would be two resurrections, one for the righteous and another for the wicked at a different time. There is no time gap between the resurrection of the two groups. Both are resurrected on the last day at the Second Coming at the same time.

 The scripture does say there is a first resurrection, but it does not say the resurrection of the wicked is the second resurrection. It does say there is a second death, but that does not mean there was a second resurrection.

When it says all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth, it does not specify the righteous came forth first...if it would be argued from silence one could say the wicked dead came forth first.. what it does say is 'all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth..."

 

 After Armageddon, it states in Zech. 14:16 that "...everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of Hosts and to keep the feast of tabernacles'

The nations convert at the Second Coming as shown in a number of scriptures...

Ps. 72:11 - "All kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.."

Zech. 2:11 - "...many nations shall be joined unto the Lord in that day, and shall be my people..."

Micah 4:2 -"Many nations shall come and say, come and let us go up unto the mountain of the Lord....and we will walk in his ways and he will teach us his paths...for the law shall go forth of Zion and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Is. 2:4 "And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people, and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks...nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore."

Daniel 7:14 "And there was given him dominion, and glory and a kingdom, that all people nations and languages should serve him..."

So looking in particular at Is. 2:4 '...and he shall judge among the nations and shall rebuke many people..."

So what is happening here? He is going to judge the nations and rebuke them. What nations? The nations that are left after Armageddon. Does it say he rebukes the nations and kills them all? No, it does not. It says he rebukes them. And what is their response to his rebuke? They convert as it says...they beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks..."

This is the same theme in Daniel 2:35 when the Stone smites the image on the feet and the Stone becomes a great mountain and fills the whole earth.

What does that mean? The interpretation is Dan. 7:27 - "And the kingdom and the dominion and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him." 

Of course the imagery of the Stone smiting the image on the feet with the ten toes is the Second Coming...does it say at this time that he burns up the whole earth? No, it does not. It says the kingdom that is under the whole heaven is given to the people of the saints of the most high...

It is even more specific in Rev. 11:15 when it says 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ." 

These are existing kingdoms that come under the jurisdiction of Jesus at the Second Coming. These are the nations the saints are given power over as it states in Rev. 2:26

'To him that overcomes and keeps my works unto the end will I give power over the nations..."

God does not give his saints power over nations that have been burned up...The saints and Jesus then rule over them with a rod of iron as it states in Rev. 2:27-

"And he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers..."

The saints are not ruling over nations that do not exist...these existing nations that are on the earth at the Second Coming are rebuked and come under the authority and dominion of Jesus and the saints. This is the kingdom Daniel saw that became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

In Rev. 15:4 the song of the redeemed are saying '...Who shall not fear thee O Lord, and glorify thy name, for all nations shall come and worship before thee for thy judgments are made manifest."

These are are the ones John saw out of every nation kindred and tribe that no man could number...The angel told John these were those who came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb...these are the nations who were converted at the rebuke of the Lord."

The same group are identified in Rev. 19:5 "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations...and he shall rule them with a rod of iron..."

Here again he smites the nations, but that does not mean he kills them all, for the very next phrase says 'he shall rule them with a rod of iron...'

These are the nations the saints are given power over...his 'smiting' them does not mean he killed them, it means he rebuked them and then he rules over them.

There is a judgment for both the living and the dead at the second coming, and they are not the same. The living nations get rebuked and converted at the Second Coming, but when the wicked dead are resurrected there is no opportunity to change...The sheep and goats, wheat and tares, and good and bad fish, and others,  are all referring to the resurrection of the dead, both good and bad. The wicked dead are cast into the fire in these contexts, but those who are alive at the Second Coming still have opportunity to repent. 

So when do the saints rule over the nations? If the nations are all killed at the Second Coming there are no nations to rule over. If there are no nations to rule over then God would not have made them kings and priests. A king and a priest needs people to rule over and to intercede for. There are many more scriptures on this. 

Yes

 

As we just went over some of the scriptures it is plain to see the nations and this world are not burned with fire at the Second Coming, for when Jesus comes he sets up his kingdom on this earth and the saints rule with him over the nations...if the existing earth is dissolved by fire at the Second Coming, then there would be no nations to rule over...no nations would be left after Armageddon, but it specifically states the nations that are left will go up to Jerusalem to worship the King.

In Rev. 20:7 it states the devil will be loosed out of his prison after the 1000 years are finished...and then what does it say? It says he "goes out to deceive the nations that are in the four quarters of the earth..."

How is he going out to deceive the nations that are in the four quarters of the earth that has been burned up 1000 years before? He doesn't because the earth was still here 1000 years after Jesus came.

The devil gathered these nations together...(they were still existing at the end of the 1000 years) and then what happened? They went up upon the breadth of the earth (that was still in existence and had not been burned up at the Second Coming) and compassed about the camp of the saints, (the camp that was upon the earth that was still in existence from the beginning of the 1000 years) and fire came down from heaven and destroyed them all...

So the fire did not come down from heaven and destroy nations that were not in existence because they had already been destroyed 1000 years before.

There are many other scriptures on this.

Yes, it is true God will create a new heaven and a new earth but it will not be at the Second Coming, but rather at the end of the 1000 years.

There is another resurrection for people who lived and died during the 1000 year period, which is called the Great White Throne. This is not the same resurrection and day of Judgment that happens at the second coming, but rather occurs 1000 years after the Second Coming.

The resurrection and judgment that takes place at the end of the 1000 years cannot be the same one that happened 1000 years before. It is impossible. The scripture specifically states 'the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished.' Without going in to the identity of who the rest of the dead are, it stands to reason, you can not have one resurrection take place and then another one taking place 1000 years later be the same resurrection happening at the same time.

Yes the heavens shall pass away and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, and it will happen in the day of the Lord...however this is the portion of scripture that Peter tells us not to be ignorant of that one day is as a 1000 years and 1000 years as one day...To say the heavens and the earth are dissolve in the day of the Lord is still scriptural because it does happen at the end of the 1000 years...still within the Day of the Lord.

Just because John saw a new heaven and a new earth, or that he said 'I make all things new,' is not proof it happens at the Second Coming...He is just writing that he saw this take place...its up to us to locate when it took place.

There is no mention of John seeing a new heaven and a new earth until after the 1000 years...as it reads at the end of Rev 19 it is describing the battle of Armageddon and the fowls eating the flesh of the captains and kings...what happens next?

Rev. 20:1  says a mighty angel came and bound the Devil for a thousand years...then what did he see? He saw thrones and they sat upon them...Who is this? These are the saints sitting upon thrones ruling the nations for a thousand years...what happens after that? He sees the devil is loosed at the end of the 1000 years...what happens next? The devil goes about to deceive the nations that are on the earth...then Gog and Magog...then the devil is cast into the lake of fire...then what happens?

He sees a great white throne and it from HERE that he sees the heaven and earth flee away...not 1000 years before this. THIS is where he sees the new heaven and earth and there was no more sea. THIS is where he sees death and hell give up the dead...this is 1000 years later than the Second Coming...this resurrection is NOT THE SAME ONE as at the Second Coming...THIS is where death and hell are cast into the lake of fire...not 1000 years before.

This shows the powers of heaven being shaken..not burned up

 

This is not the Second coming or the earth being burned up...

 

Yes, those of Sodom were burned up..the whole world was not...

 

This is concerning the wicked people who were persecuting the believers at Thessalonica..Paul was saying God was going to take vengeance upon them when he comes...he is referring to these wicked people specifically and the wicked dead as a whole being resurrected and punished with everlasting fire at the Second Coming as shown in the wheat and tares, sheep and goats and others...it does not mean everyone gets killed at the Second Coming

This scripture is very illustrative of what has been referred to with the judgment of the living and of the dead...the wicked dead are resurrected and burned in the fire...those who are alive at the Second Coming will be converted, or by this analogy, being washed in the blood of the Lamb is like fullers soap...washing something does not mean you burn it up

 

The earth does not melt until the end of the 1000 years...you have to place these scriptures in their proper place...just because it says 'he uttered his voice' is not proof this is the second coming...the heathen will rage and the kingdoms will be moved at the end of the 1000 years....Gog and Magog

 

First angel sounded...fire mingled with blood

Second angel sounded...great mountain burning with fire cast into the sea

Third part of men killed by fire, smoke and by brim stone that proceeds out of their mouth

If any man hurts the two prophets fire proceeds out of their mouth and kills them

Fourth angel power was given him to scorch men with fire

Just because it says a 'fire devoured before him does not mean the earth was burned up....

The word for 'presence' is defined in Strongs #6440 here: 

This fits with what John said in Rev. 20 :11 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it from whose face the heaven and earth fled away..."

This happens at the end of the 1000 years, not at the second coming

A fire devouring before him does not mean the earth is burned up

 

Yes, there are rebukes mentioned in some of the above scriptures where men are scorched with fire, but this does not mean the earth is burned up. 

 This is what happens to the MEN at Armageddon...it does not mean the earth is burned up...

 

This is Gog and Magog at the end of the 1000 years...Fire comes down out of heaven and destroys all the sinners and the earth and the elements shall melt with fervent heat...

 

This is talking about the nations who gathered themselves together at the end of the 1000 years around the camp of the saints and fire comes down and devours THEM, not the whole earth. Although this is indeed the time frame when the earth will melt, this scripture is specifically saying fire would come down and devour the people. 

Rev. 20:3 specifically says the devil goes out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth...so there were nations, and nations are people,  and people are physical mortal humans...

Rev. 20:4 says he saw thrones and they sat upon them... Thrones would mean a kingdom, kingdom would imply they were ruling over someone, and thrones would mean someone was sitting on them by the phrase 'and they (the saints) sat upon them...

Rev. 20:6 states the saints were reigning as kings and priests...so there was a kingdom or they wouldn't be kings, and they were ruling over people, and people are physical mortal humans, and the thrones were on the earth so there were earthly thrones and an earthly kingdom.

I don't know what you mean by Rev. 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords (spiritual) angel, heaven, devil, satan, the souls, the dead, God, Christ

If 100% percent spiritual realm means physical human beings, and a physical earth then physical no longer means physical...The 'time' element is sometimes mistaken when the KJV says 'time shall be no more...' the better translation is 'he will delay no longer...'

 

Yes.

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

[transmogrified]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

We strongly disagree

As shown Revelation 20:1-6 is seen 100% in the Lords spiritual, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

Hello Truth7t7-

     Could you please re-phrase the above statement...I don't think I am understanding what you are saying..

Thank you

[truth7t7]

17 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Hello Truth7t7-

     Could you please re-phrase the above statement...I don't think I am understanding what you are saying..

Thank you

Revelation 20:1-6 Isnt A Millennial Kingdom On This Earth

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?
2.) Physical Earthly Throne?
3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time On This Earth

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Edited January 24, 2022 by truth7t7

[transmogrified]

3 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Do these that are left of the nations who came against Jerusalem now enter into eternity after the day of the Lord?

[truth7t7]

6 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Do these that are left of the nations who came against Jerusalem now enter into eternity after the day of the Lord?

Zechariah 14:16, Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Edited January 24, 2022 by truth7t7

[transmogrified]

1 hour ago, transmogrified said:

We strongly disagree

As shown Revelation 20:1-6 is seen 100% in the Lords spiritual, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

I was meaning the phrase above...Are you saying that Angels, and Heaven, the Devil, Satan, and The souls, the Dead, God, and Christ are all spiritual?

[truth7t7]

4 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

I was meaning the phrase above...Are you saying that Angels, and Heaven, the Devil, Satan, and The souls, the Dead, God, and Christ are all spiritual?

Do you believe the Angels, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The souls, the Dead, God, and Christ are representative of a literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many claim?

Edited January 24, 2022 by truth7t7

[transmogrified]

2 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Do you believe the Angels, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The souls, the Dead, God, and Christ are representative of a literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many claim?

Are you meaning that angels, heaven, the Devil, Satan, the souls, the Dead, God and Christ would take on a different meaning than they normally would mean? 

[truth7t7]

7 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

Are you meaning that angels, heaven, the Devil, Satan, the souls, the Dead, God and Christ would take on a different meaning than they normally would mean? 

I'm claiming Revelation 20:1-6 dosent represent a Millennial Kingdom on this earth for 1,000 years at the return of Jesus Christ, its very simple and easy to understand 

The 1,000 years is taking place in the Lords spiritual realm, 1,000 isnt literal but is an expression of a long period of time

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by truth7t7