The Saved don't wait to be resurrected (like the unsaved do)

[DeighAnn]

I've always believed that one of the best things about being a Christian was not suffering in the grave but going immediately to be with the Lord, where He is.  Nice resting place until we return to work the Lords Day with Him.

Some how after the graves were opened they got shut again.  By whom and when I have no clue.  Wasn't the 'law of sin and death' done away with because IT COULD NOT FORGIVE?  Why would being 'forgiven' even matter at death if nothing but death happened until Christ returned.  And I can't figure out why when leaving the earth body to go to heaven the 'heaven' body needs to be mentioned?  Every seed has a body.  I never even gave that a second thought either.  So many things that seem so very simple have become confusing while the confusing or hard to figure out things don't ever seem to be discussed.  So,  here are some more

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent  52 And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose  53 And CAME OUT OF THE GRAVES AFTER HIS RESURRECTION , and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Why? to PROVE TO THE UNBELIEVERS THAT CHRIST HAD INDEED ENDED THE BONDAGE TO DEATH FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM. No longer did anyone who received the GIFT OF SALVATION need to fear the death of the flesh.  We are made ONE with Christ.  If the grave can't hold Christ, the grave cant hold us.  The law of death was changed.  As everyone could see.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life.

2192. echó 
Strong's Concordance
echó: to have, hold
Original Word: ἔχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: echó
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-o)
Definition: to have, hold
Usage: I have, hold, possess.
166. aiónios 
Strong's Concordance
aiónios: agelong, eternal
Original Word: αἰώνιος, ία, ιον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: aiónios
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-o'-nee-os)
Definition: agelong, eternal
Usage: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.
2222. zóé 
Strong's Concordance
zóé: life
Original Word: ζωή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: zóé
Phonetic Spelling: (dzo-ay')
Definition: life
Usage: life, both of physical (present) and of spiritual (particularly future) existence.
HELPS Word-studies
2222 zōḗ – life (physical and spiritual). All life (2222 /zōḗ), throughout the universe, is derived – i.e. it always (only) comes from and is sustained by God's self-existent life. The Lord intimately shares His gift of life with people, creating each in His image which gives all the capacity to know His eternal life.
1519. eis 
Strong's Concordance
eis: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)
Original Word: εἰς
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: eis
Phonetic Spelling: (ice)
Definition: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, purpose, result)
Usage: into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.
HELPS Word-studies
1519 eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.
2920. krisis 
Strong's Concordance
krisis: a decision, judgment
Original Word: κρίσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: krisis
Phonetic Spelling: (kree'-sis)
Definition: a decision, judgment
Usage: judging, judgment, decision, sentence; generally: divine judgment; accusation.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2920 krísis (a feminine noun derived from 2919 /krínō, "to separate, distinguish, judge") – judgment, emphasizing its qualitative aspect that can apply either to a positive verdict (for righteousness) – or more commonly, a "negative" verdict which condemns the nature of sin that brings it on. See 2919 (krinō).[2917 (kríma) stresses the results that go with a particular judgment (of blessing or pain depending on the choice).]
3327. metabainó 
Strong's Concordance
metabainó: to pass over, withdraw, depart
Original Word: μεταβαίνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metabainó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-ab-ah'-ee-no)
Definition: to pass over, withdraw, depart
Usage: I change my place (abode), leave, depart, remove, pass over.
1537. ek or ex 
Strong's Concordance
ek or ex: from, from out of
Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.
HELPS Word-studies
1537 ek (a preposition, written eks before a vowel) – properly, "out from and to" (the outcome); out from within. 1537 /ek ("out of") is one of the most under-translated (and therefore mis-translated) Greek propositions – often being confined to the meaning "by." 1537 (ek) has a two-layered meaning ("out from and to") which makes it out-come oriented (out of the depths of the source and extending to its impact on the object).
2288. thanatos 
Strong's Concordance
thanatos: death
Original Word: θάνατος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: thanatos
Phonetic Spelling: (than'-at-os)
Definition: death
Usage: death, physical or spiritual.
HELPS Word-studies
2288 thánatos (derived from 2348 /thnḗskō, "to die") – physical or spiritual death; (figuratively) separation from the life (salvation) of God forever by dying without first experiencing death to self to receive His gift of salvation.

Truly truly I say to you that the [one] the word of Me hearing and believing the {One] having sent Me he has life eternal and into judgment not comes but has passed out of death into life

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live  26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself  27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man  28 Marvel not at this for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice  29 And shall come forth they that have done good unto the resurrection of life and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits OF THEM THAT SLEPT   21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

IF 'them that slept' DIDN'T IMMEDIATELY follow in resurrection, this would BE A LIE.  He wouldn't have been the first fruits of them THAT SLEPT but the first fruits OF ALL WHO WOULD EVER SLEEP.   

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Do we believe that JESUS died and rose? If so, we best believe they did too!!!
Do we believe on THE LORDS DAY that Satan/death will have ANY PART IN HIS REIGN? 

 How did the prophecies go? 

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death in victory and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

26:19 Thy dead men shall live, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE  Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.  20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.  21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Hosea 13:11 I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath.  12 The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid  13 The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him: he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children  14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes 15 Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels  16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Knowledge of the heavens rolling up like a scroll and those blinded heirs to the promise explains this taking place at a different  time still similar in action

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So far this seems to be working out

Before Christ PERFECT under the law not held in grave, all the rest were.  All the nations held in grave
After Christ PERFECT through faith not held in grave, all the rest are.  All the nations remain held in grave.
When Christ returns a few of those who died during the great tribulation and some of those held in graves rise
Some to join their brethren, some rise remaining 'spiritually' dead till the final exam

[Selah7]

Hi there, D.  Well let’s see now…. to start off, do you believe that ALL people when they die go to heaven?  

[Selah7]

7 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Do you?

 

Quite honestly I haven’t got a clue, I would love to think so, but, is that God’s word?

 

What does God say?..

 

I’m looking to learn something.🙏

Hi there, Rjp…

God says:

Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed, Or the golden bowl is broken, Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain, Or the wheel broken at the well. Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

- Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 (NKJV)

[Selah7]

And here’s another good scripture that lets us know that when we die (the good and the bad), we will go to heaven.

We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

- 2 Corinthians 5:8 (NKJV)

[Selah7]

14 minutes ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

Hello, selah , 🙏 Is that saying all will return to God?

 

Yes.   ….but we won’t be judged until the Great White Throne Judgment.

I don’t want to derail D’s new thread, but maybe someone will start a thread regarding this fascinating subject.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Selah7

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I've always believed that one of the best things about being a Christian was not suffering in the grave but going immediately to be with the Lord, where He is.  Nice resting place until we return to work the Lords Day with Him.

Some how after the graves were opened they got shut again.  By whom and when I have no clue.  Wasn't the 'law of sin and death' done away with because IT COULD NOT FORGIVE?  Why would being 'forgiven' even matter at death if nothing but death happened until Christ returned.  And I can't figure out why when leaving the earth body to go to heaven the 'heaven' body needs to be mentioned?  Every seed has a body.  I never even gave that a second thought either.  So many things that seem so very simple have become confusing while the confusing or hard to figure out things don't ever seem to be discussed.  So,  here are some more

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent  52 And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose  53 And CAME OUT OF THE GRAVES AFTER HIS RESURRECTION , and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Why? to PROVE TO THE UNBELIEVERS THAT CHRIST HAD INDEED ENDED THE BONDAGE TO DEATH FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN HIM. No longer did anyone who received the GIFT OF SALVATION need to fear the death of the flesh.  We are made ONE with Christ.  If the grave can't hold Christ, the grave cant hold us.  The law of death was changed.  As everyone could see.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life.

2192. echó 
Strong's Concordance
echó: to have, hold
Original Word: ἔχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: echó
Phonetic Spelling: (ekh'-o)
Definition: to have, hold
Usage: I have, hold, possess.
166. aiónios 
Strong's Concordance
aiónios: agelong, eternal
Original Word: αἰώνιος, ία, ιον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: aiónios
Phonetic Spelling: (ahee-o'-nee-os)
Definition: agelong, eternal
Usage: age-long, and therefore: practically eternal, unending; partaking of the character of that which lasts for an age, as contrasted with that which is brief and fleeting.
2222. zóé 
Strong's Concordance
zóé: life
Original Word: ζωή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: zóé
Phonetic Spelling: (dzo-ay')
Definition: life
Usage: life, both of physical (present) and of spiritual (particularly future) existence.
HELPS Word-studies
2222 zōḗ – life (physical and spiritual). All life (2222 /zōḗ), throughout the universe, is derived – i.e. it always (only) comes from and is sustained by God's self-existent life. The Lord intimately shares His gift of life with people, creating each in His image which gives all the capacity to know His eternal life.
1519. eis 
Strong's Concordance
eis: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, fig. purpose, result)
Original Word: εἰς
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: eis
Phonetic Spelling: (ice)
Definition: to or into (indicating the point reached or entered, of place, time, purpose, result)
Usage: into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.
HELPS Word-studies
1519 eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.
2920. krisis 
Strong's Concordance
krisis: a decision, judgment
Original Word: κρίσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: krisis
Phonetic Spelling: (kree'-sis)
Definition: a decision, judgment
Usage: judging, judgment, decision, sentence; generally: divine judgment; accusation.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2920 krísis (a feminine noun derived from 2919 /krínō, "to separate, distinguish, judge") – judgment, emphasizing its qualitative aspect that can apply either to a positive verdict (for righteousness) – or more commonly, a "negative" verdict which condemns the nature of sin that brings it on. See 2919 (krinō).[2917 (kríma) stresses the results that go with a particular judgment (of blessing or pain depending on the choice).]
3327. metabainó 
Strong's Concordance
metabainó: to pass over, withdraw, depart
Original Word: μεταβαίνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metabainó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-ab-ah'-ee-no)
Definition: to pass over, withdraw, depart
Usage: I change my place (abode), leave, depart, remove, pass over.
1537. ek or ex 
Strong's Concordance
ek or ex: from, from out of
Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.
HELPS Word-studies
1537 ek (a preposition, written eks before a vowel) – properly, "out from and to" (the outcome); out from within. 1537 /ek ("out of") is one of the most under-translated (and therefore mis-translated) Greek propositions – often being confined to the meaning "by." 1537 (ek) has a two-layered meaning ("out from and to") which makes it out-come oriented (out of the depths of the source and extending to its impact on the object).
2288. thanatos 
Strong's Concordance
thanatos: death
Original Word: θάνατος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: thanatos
Phonetic Spelling: (than'-at-os)
Definition: death
Usage: death, physical or spiritual.
HELPS Word-studies
2288 thánatos (derived from 2348 /thnḗskō, "to die") – physical or spiritual death; (figuratively) separation from the life (salvation) of God forever by dying without first experiencing death to self to receive His gift of salvation.

Truly truly I say to you that the [one] the word of Me hearing and believing the {One] having sent Me he has life eternal and into judgment not comes but has passed out of death into life

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and they that hear shall live  26 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself  27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man  28 Marvel not at this for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice  29 And shall come forth they that have done good unto the resurrection of life and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits OF THEM THAT SLEPT   21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

IF 'them that slept' DIDN'T IMMEDIATELY follow in resurrection, this would BE A LIE.  He wouldn't have been the first fruits of them THAT SLEPT but the first fruits OF ALL WHO WOULD EVER SLEEP.   

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Do we believe that JESUS died and rose? If so, we best believe they did too!!!
Do we believe on THE LORDS DAY that Satan/death will have ANY PART IN HIS REIGN? 

 How did the prophecies go? 

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. 8 He will swallow up death in victory and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

26:19 Thy dead men shall live, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE  Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.  20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.  21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Hosea 13:11 I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath.  12 The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid  13 The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him: he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children  14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes 15 Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels  16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.

Knowledge of the heavens rolling up like a scroll and those blinded heirs to the promise explains this taking place at a different  time still similar in action

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So far this seems to be working out

Before Christ PERFECT under the law not held in grave, all the rest were.  All the nations held in grave
After Christ PERFECT through faith not held in grave, all the rest are.  All the nations remain held in grave.
When Christ returns a few of those who died during the great tribulation and some of those held in graves rise
Some to join their brethren, some rise remaining 'spiritually' dead till the final exam

The reason we die is that we inherited Adam's nature via our birth from the womb. It is NOT our sins (plural) that leads to death, but sin (singular). The body of man is so polluted that under inspiration Paul says severally; "The body of this death", "this vile body" and "no good thing dwelleth in my flesh". We groan while in this body (Rom.8, 2nd Cor.5:1-3). 1st Corinthians 15:50-54 says that this body is unfit for the Kingdom of God and must be CHANGED. Now we understand what a blessing death is. God barred Adam from the Tree of Life "lest he ALSO eat from it and live forever".

Having said that, let us call into question the doctrine that we go to heaven at death. To trace a man at death we must see how he is made. In Genesis 2:7 a body was fashioned of the earth, God's vitality was breathed into the body, and the man BECAME a living SOUL. From that moment on, man s called a "soul", or "souls". The word "BECAME" implies that it was not there before, that is why the account of Genesis 1 says God "created" man. The word "created" - bara in the Hebrew, means "made out of nothing" (see Isa.43:7 - the body is "formed", the spirit is "made of existing materials", but the soul is "created"). At death these three parts of man are driven apart. The body returns to the elements, the spirit returns to God Who gave it (Eccl.3:21, 12:7), and the SOUL, which is the man, goes to Hades, a place under the earth. 1st Thessalonians 5:23 tells us that the "whole" man, one who is alive, is body, soul and spirit.

The best documented death in history is that of our Lord Jesus. He, at the point of death, gave UP His spirit to the Father's hands (Lk.23:46). His body was laid in a tomb on the face of the earth. His SOUL descended to the heart of the earth (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8-9). Acts 2:28-34 shows two interesting things. It was Jesus' SOUL that went to Hades for three days, and the SOUL of David is still there as Peter talks to the "men of Israel" 50 days after Jesus' resurrection. The word "Hades" means "hidden". In death, a man is both naked and unclean. He must be "hidden". 2nd Corinthians 5:1-5 says that we are naked and "groan" in our nakedness.

The way of death is, on one hand, our release from this corrupted body, but it is also an unnatural condition. Man was made with a Body and this body is very important. Our Bodies make up the Body of Christ (1st Cor.6:15), so death is a loss to the Church. But Christ, when introducing the Church, said only two things about it. (I) It received the keys to the coming Kingdom of heaven, and (II) the Gates of Hades would not prevail against it. That is, Christ, Who now possesses the keys to these gates (Rev.1:9), will one day open them, first for the Believers, next for the Jew, and finally for the Nations (1st Cor.15:23, Dan.12:2, Reve.20:12-13).

I realize that I will be a minority in this, but the Roman Church's doctrine of going to heaven at death is untenable. There is not a single verse that plainly says this, and those that seem to allude to this, have perfectly normal explanations to the contrary. When scripture say that a believer goes to be with Christ at death, the explanation is simple. The Spirit of Christ is omnipresent and is in Hades (Ps.139:8 - the word "hell" is rightly "sheol" - mostly used to denote Hades).

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Hi there, D.  Well let’s see now…. to start off, do you believe that ALL people when they die go to heaven?  

Yes, to Paradise - that has two sides a good side and a bad side.  Where that exactly is I don't know.

[DeighAnn]

3 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Yes.   ….but we won’t be judged until the Great White Throne Judgment.

I don’t want to derail D’s new thread, but maybe someone will start a thread regarding this fascinating subject.

Hey, you know me.  Where ever the Spirit leads.  I don't think truth can be found by us making rules on how to get there.  WE must allow the Holy Spirit to lead where ever that is.  It is easy to spot those who are not, just ignore them.  They have a job to do same as us.  We must rise above. (whenever we can because sometimes....)

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The reason we die is that we inherited Adam's nature via our birth from the womb. It is NOT our sins (plural) that leads to death, but sin (singular). The body of man is so polluted that under inspiration Paul says severally; "The body of this death", "this vile body" and "no good thing dwelleth in my flesh". We groan while in this body (Rom.8, 2nd Cor.5:1-3). 1st Corinthians 15:50-54 says that this body is unfit for the Kingdom of God and must be CHANGED. Now we understand what a blessing death is. God barred Adam from the Tree of Life "lest he ALSO eat from it and live forever".

Having said that, let us call into question the doctrine that we go to heaven at death. To trace a man at death we must see how he is made. In Genesis 2:7 a body was fashioned of the earth, God's vitality was breathed into the body, and the man BECAME a living SOUL. From that moment on, man s called a "soul", or "souls". The word "BECAME" implies that it was not there before, that is why the account of Genesis 1 says God "created" man. The word "created" - bara in the Hebrew, means "made out of nothing" (see Isa.43:7 - the body is "formed", the spirit is "made of existing materials", but the soul is "created"). At death these three parts of man are driven apart. The body returns to the elements, the spirit returns to God Who gave it (Eccl.3:21, 12:7), and the SOUL, which is the man, goes to Hades, a place under the earth. 1st Thessalonians 5:23 tells us that the "whole" man, one who is alive, is body, soul and spirit.

The best documented death in history is that of our Lord Jesus. He, at the point of death, gave UP His spirit to the Father's hands (Lk.23:46). His body was laid in a tomb on the face of the earth. His SOUL descended to the heart of the earth (Matt.12:40, Eph.4:8-9). Acts 2:28-34 shows two interesting things. It was Jesus' SOUL that went to Hades for three days, and the SOUL of David is still there as Peter talks to the "men of Israel" 50 days after Jesus' resurrection. The word "Hades" means "hidden". In death, a man is both naked and unclean. He must be "hidden". 2nd Corinthians 5:1-5 says that we are naked and "groan" in our nakedness.

The way of death is, on one hand, our release from this corrupted body, but it is also an unnatural condition. Man was made with a Body and this body is very important. Our Bodies make up the Body of Christ (1st Cor.6:15), so death is a loss to the Church. But Christ, when introducing the Church, said only two things about it. (I) It received the keys to the coming Kingdom of heaven, and (II) the Gates of Hades would not prevail against it. That is, Christ, Who now possesses the keys to these gates (Rev.1:9), will one day open them, first for the Believers, next for the Jew, and finally for the Nations (1st Cor.15:23, Dan.12:2, Reve.20:12-13).

I realize that I will be a minority in this, but the Roman Church's doctrine of going to heaven at death is untenable. There is not a single verse that plainly says this, and those that seem to allude to this, have perfectly normal explanations to the contrary. When scripture say that a believer goes to be with Christ at death, the explanation is simple. The Spirit of Christ is omnipresent and is in Hades (Ps.139:8 - the word "hell" is rightly "sheol" - mostly used to denote Hades).

Hi Ad,

I don't know about the Roman Church doctrine.  I do know about the word Hades and the problems that brings into the picture so just going to skip that.  So a couple quick questions...

When were the 'graves' closed back up?  

I have read the prophesy for them being opened but not any for them going back to closed.  

Please explain how upon death of the flesh, having been washed clean and all sins forgiven (basically back to the state Adam was before sin) having been justified and sanctified and having received the gift of Salvation, the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, 

CAN DEATH hold us in the grave?  Doesn't that go against everything we are told is going on?  WHY did FORGIVENESS that Christ could give us but the law couldn't MATTER IF IT DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING?  

How do we give GOD PLEASURE while sleeping?  

d

[AdHoc]

7 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Hi Ad,

I don't know about the Roman Church doctrine.  I do know about the word Hades and the problems that brings into the picture so just going to skip that.  So a couple quick questions...

When were the 'graves' closed back up?  

I have read the prophesy for them being opened but not any for them going back to closed.  

Please explain how upon death of the flesh, having been washed clean and all sins forgiven (basically back to the state Adam was before sin) having been justified and sanctified and having received the gift of Salvation, the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, 

CAN DEATH hold us in the grave?  Doesn't that go against everything we are told is going on?  WHY did FORGIVENESS that Christ could give us but the law couldn't MATTER IF IT DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING?  

How do we give GOD PLEASURE while sleeping?  

d

Take your time with Hades. It will all fit together in time.

A grave is but a hole in the earth or on the earth. If we go by Acts Chapter 2 then a grave is a grave only as long as the body is there. David's soul was in Hades, his body in Jerusalem. A man only leaves the grave at resurrection - like Christ did and those of Matthew 27:53.

It is true that our flesh is washed clean (Jn.13:10). This is a ritual cleansing so that God can come and dwell IN us (in our spirits). The Tabernacle / Temple was ritually cleaned and anointed before the glory of God entered it. Aaron, before he enters the Holy of Holies on the Day of Atonement must wash AND kill sacrifices. Man is the Temple of God, but God only lives in the human spirit - which speaks for the Holy of Holies. He would be defiled if he dwelt in our Bodies. When the incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians 5 commits this sin, he defiled the body and God wants to slay him, not for revenge, but to keep the sanctity of the SPIRIT. In John 2:24 the place of God's abode is change from Jerusalem to the human spirit. The body is just the "outer court". As per my first posting, man is a tripartite being. There is a "salvation" for each part individually. The human spirit needs a rebirth (Jn.3:6). The soul needs to be transformed (2nd Cor.3:18, 1st Pet.1:9). The body must be rebuilt, not tin the womb, but in heaven (2nd Cor.5:1-5).

Death holds us prisoner in Hades. It is true that we must wait for the "redemption of our bodies" in resurrection (Rom.8:22-23). Why we are not raised after three days like Christ I cannot tell. I can venture a guess though. Our new bodies are needed for the Kingdom, and thus they are only needed at Christ's coming. But it is a weak guess. Just think, David has now been waiting in Hades for 3,000 years.

The forgiveness of Christ is for our trespasses so that man is not consigned to the trash heap of the universe - Gehenna. It enables God to judicially extend mercy. You might have to wait till Christ comes to fully appreciate what it means to be saved from the Lake of Fire. According to Isaiah 66:24 we will be able to look upon those there. Their "TORMENT" will be something to behold. We will see the Beast, the False Prophet and the goats of Matthew 25 in agony. When you see this, you will forget about a few years "resting" in Hades. Added to this, God has reserved a compartment of Hades for His chosen called "Paradise". A malefactor, with no record of good works, landed there just by confessing Jesus as king of the Jews, and thus Son of David - the Messiah. There is no Paradise on earth. So do not fear Hades. Lazarus was "comforted".

The principle of resurrection is that you rise according to how you were planted. That is, the state of your relationship with Jesus and His Father Jehovah in your last days alive is what you carry into Hades. The rich man of Luke 16 carried his lawbreaking into Hades and was tormented. Abraham was in a friendship with God and the Paradise that now is, was once called "Abraham's Bosom". Abraham is designated "Friend of God" and his name is mentioned 72 times in the New Testament. What he had with God he carried on into Hades - and is renowned for it. You want to please God in death- why, please Him in life.