The Saved don't wait to be resurrected (like the unsaved do)

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Death holds us prisoner in Hades. It is true that we must wait for the "redemption of our bodies" in resurrection (Rom.8:22-23). Why we are not raised after three days like Christ I cannot tell. I can venture a guess though. Our new bodies are needed for the Kingdom, and thus they are only needed at Christ's coming. But it is a weak guess. Just think, David has now been waiting in Hades for 3,000 years.

Please understand there is nothing that can be said to me to make me ever go into any hole in the ground.  Only thing about me going into the grave is the OLD DEAD CARCASS I am presently walking around in.  I WILL have long departed from it, as I will have been received by Christ and taken to the Father in heaven so I can be where He is in the place He went to prepare for me. 

Do what you are going to do in the grave or Hades or where ever you are going.  ME, I am dying without sin, PRAISE YOU MY LORD AND SAVIOUR CHRIST JESUS FOR all the work you did on the cross to set me free from the bondage of sin and death.  I am for sure putting off THIS TABERNACLE ASAP.  To be absent from THIS BODY OF SIN is to be with the Lord and in an incorruptible body because to every seed....

When were the graves closed back up and by whom?  

 don't you understand  HE DWELLETH IN ME AND I IN HIM and NEITHER THE GRAVE NOR HADES CAN HOLD HIM SO IT CAN'T HOLD ME.  IT ISN'T POSSIBLE TO BE HELD IN BONDAGE BECAUSE WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST.  CHRIST IS RISEN.  FIRST OF THE FIRST FRUITS OF THEM WHO HAD DIED.  THE GRAVES WERE OPENED BECAUSE THEY ACCEPTED THE LORD AND SAVIOUR AND SO THE GRAVES COULD NO LONGER HOLD.  

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 6:56 He that eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, dwelleth in Me, and I in him

 There is no reason for me to sleep. God is not short on space or time or energy.   I didn't receive eternal life to have it taken away for 'a little NAP' and then have it returned to me.  THAT is insane.  Either we have faith or we don't.  

1Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
I say YES, there is PRESENTLY a RESURRECTION of the dead.  
YOU say there WILL BE A FUTURE resurrection of the dead.  There presently is no resurrection of the dead

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen
If presently there is no resurrection of the dead THEN CHRIST CAN NOT HAVE RESURRECTED
There is not presently a resurrection of the dead BUT CHRIST IS RISEN ANYWAY?

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ: whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

I do say the dead do rise, the dead rise now
You say 'the dead do not rise now, but they will be rising' some day (in 2000 years) 

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised
If the dead are not presently rising then Christ is not presently raised
The dead do not rise now YET SOMEHOW CHRIST IS STILL RAISED?

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
OF THEM THAT SLEPT. 
 
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
IT HAS COME, IT HAS ARRIVED, IT IS HERE, THE GRAVES OPENED, THE CAPTIVITY WAS LED CAPTIVE
 

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order
Christ, 
the firstfruits, 
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

d

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The principle of resurrection is that you rise according to how you were planted

I am rising according to WHEN that seed was planted and my flesh has been dead for a long time so my spiritual 'plant' is nearly full grown already.  Wheat perhaps?

[AdHoc]

10 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Please understand there is nothing that can be said to me to make me ever go into any hole in the ground.  Only thing about me going into the grave is the OLD DEAD CARCASS I am presently walking around in.  I WILL have long departed from it, as I will have been received by Christ and taken to the Father in heaven so I can be where He is in the place He went to prepare for me. 

Do what you are going to do in the grave or Hades or where ever you are going.  ME, I am dying without sin, PRAISE YOU MY LORD AND SAVIOUR CHRIST JESUS FOR all the work you did on the cross to set me free from the bondage of sin and death.  I am for sure putting off THIS TABERNACLE ASAP.  To be absent from THIS BODY OF SIN is to be with the Lord and in an incorruptible body because to every seed....

When were the graves closed back up and by whom?  

 don't you understand  HE DWELLETH IN ME AND I IN HIM and NEITHER THE GRAVE NOR HADES CAN HOLD HIM SO IT CAN'T HOLD ME.  IT ISN'T POSSIBLE TO BE HELD IN BONDAGE BECAUSE WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST.  CHRIST IS RISEN.  FIRST OF THE FIRST FRUITS OF THEM WHO HAD DIED.  THE GRAVES WERE OPENED BECAUSE THEY ACCEPTED THE LORD AND SAVIOUR AND SO THE GRAVES COULD NO LONGER HOLD.  

John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 6:56 He that eateth My flesh, and drinketh My blood, dwelleth in Me, and I in him

 There is no reason for me to sleep. God is not short on space or time or energy.   I didn't receive eternal life to have it taken away for 'a little NAP' and then have it returned to me.  THAT is insane.  Either we have faith or we don't.  

1Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

12 Now if Christ be preached that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
I say YES, there is PRESENTLY a RESURRECTION of the dead.  
YOU say there WILL BE A FUTURE resurrection of the dead.  There presently is no resurrection of the dead

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen
If presently there is no resurrection of the dead THEN CHRIST CAN NOT HAVE RESURRECTED
There is not presently a resurrection of the dead BUT CHRIST IS RISEN ANYWAY?

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ: whom He raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

I do say the dead do rise, the dead rise now
You say 'the dead do not rise now, but they will be rising' some day (in 2000 years) 

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised
If the dead are not presently rising then Christ is not presently raised
The dead do not rise now YET SOMEHOW CHRIST IS STILL RAISED?

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
OF THEM THAT SLEPT. 
 
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
IT HAS COME, IT HAS ARRIVED, IT IS HERE, THE GRAVES OPENED, THE CAPTIVITY WAS LED CAPTIVE
 

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order
Christ, 
the firstfruits, 
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming.

d

I am rising according to WHEN that seed was planted and my flesh has been dead for a long time so my spiritual 'plant' is nearly full grown already.  Wheat perhaps?

Did you notice two things about your response to me?

1. Most of your statements don't have scriptures attached, especially the one about going to heaven.

2. The very scripture you quoted says when the resurrection of Christians is. It is in verse 23 which you did not highlight. You will be resurrected "WHEN HE COMES"

The example you gave shows the opposite to what you say. "Captivity" is the state of being captive. If "captivity is lead captive" it does not mean you go anywhere. It means that some else is your jailer. Let's take Israel as an example. In about 730 BC Assyria deported the ten northern Tribes of Israel. They became "captives" in Assyria. Some decades later, Babylon defeated Assyria. Where did the Captives in "Captivity" go? Nowhere. Just the boss of Assyria had changed to Babylon. Babylon now owned and managed the "Captivity". Some years later, Babylon defeated and deported Judah to Babylon. A New "Captivity" occurred. Some decades later Persia defeated Babylon. Where did the Captive Judaeans go? NOWHERE! Captivity was led captive of a new jailer.

But Cyrus of Persia was favorable to the Jews and freed them to return to their Land and City. Now Captivity was NO LONGER CAPTIVE. "Captivity " no longer EXISTED. When men are freed from Captivity it cannot be called "captivity"! But 97% of the Jews in Babylon loved it so much that they did not return. Their jailor had freed them but they took the freedom to STAY in the same place. Now the Judaeans where FREE but still did not go anywhere.

Your above example supports the fact that death, of which Hades is the prison, was not over turned. Satan was defeated and Jesus took possession of the "KEYS". But He only open these Gates of Hades "WHEN HE COMES"

But, hey, sister, 98% and more of Christianity hold the doctrine you expressed above. I don't blame you. It is a nice cosy thought. It is a comforting doctrine. That is exactly why it is embraced despite there being no scripture to support it. I don't blame you and make no judgment. But ..... isn't it nice to know the truth. The doctrine of heaven is unsustainable, that's why you started this thread. It's bothering you that the doctrine of going to heaven has so many anomalies.

 

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Did you notice two things about your response to me?

1. Most of your statements don't have scriptures attached, especially the one about going to heaven.

Did you notice it was Scripture with explanation in between each verse?  I am not sure what that says. 
 

 

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

But, hey, sister, 98% and more of Christianity hold the doctrine you expressed above. I don't blame you. It is a nice cosy thought. It is a comforting doctrine. That is exactly why it is embraced despite there being no scripture to support it. I don't blame you and make no judgment. But ..... isn't it nice to know the truth. The doctrine of heaven is unsustainable, that's why you started this thread. It's bothering you that the doctrine of going to heaven has so many anomalies

Hey brother, how about those graves being opened?  Anything on when they were closed?  

With the dead not rising and still being in Hades, how did Christ rise?   Or is there a verse I missed?  

[DeighAnn]

23 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Having said that, let us call into question the doctrine that we go to heaven at death.

I am skipping the conjecture on what is a soul from Gen 2:7 as that corrupts everything that follows it which is apparent because  none of the questions false doctrine renders void, are ever addressed  But that's ok, it's seems to be the trend of the day

I have posted Scripture and will be commenting on some of the verses to draw the attention to WHERE DO WE GO once the flesh bodies die.  SOME don't go to Hades as you will soon see.  Can't go wrong when we use Gods words as our base.  

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

Not going to  qualify where Jesus is going at this point, He will make it perfectly clear in a second.  BUT WHERE EVER that turns out to be ONE THING FOR SURE,  we shalt follow Him afterwards.  
 

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

Can't go now as there is still work for the Lord to finish.  BUT LATER is a go. 

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I must admit, I don't understand HOW this isn't the clearest thing ever written.  I GO PREPARE, WILL COME GET YOU MYSELF, YOU WILL BE WITH ME.  I AM GOING TO HEAVEN
 

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto Him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

AT least the 'where He goes is no longer a problem' as the HOW CAN WE KNOW THE WAY remains to be. 

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

GOD is in heaven,  Jesus is going to heaven and NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER (who is in heaven) BUT through the Lord and Saviour.  THERE is NO discussion about any return to earth and gathering up.  
 

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

For SURE we know where Christ is talking about.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth Me no more; but ye see Me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Not die, live.  Not sleep, live.  Not hades, but with HIM IN HEAVEN, where He is

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

WHAT DAY?  The day HE COMES to meet me so I can be WHERE He is.  And I will know as He brings me to the FATHER
 

John 14:21 He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

NOT A Church, not a group, but A MAN. 

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

John 16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

HAVE YOU ASKED THIS QUESTION?

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Why will we be able to see HIM? BECAUSE HE GOES TO THE FATHER AND SO DO WE

John 17:24
FATHER I WILL THAT THEY ALSO WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME BE WITH ME WHERE I AM THAT THEY MAY BEHOLD MY GLORY WHICH THOU HAST GIVEN ME FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD


When Christ returns He will be amongst everyone, not just those 'though hast given me' so it can't be at that point a resurrection takes place.  These verses CAN'T be made to fit with anything OTHER THAN immediate resurrection, raising up from the dead, passing through death AND changing bodies IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE 

THE DEAD are those who didn't receive LIFE.  They don't get to see Christ in His glory.  They don't get to go to heaven.  Christ will not be brining them to the Father.  They will not be RETURNING with Him either. 

They DO WAIT and will be 'raised' when He returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.  

PRAISE YE THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY

Romans 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that He might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

 

 

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

Did you notice it was Scripture with explanation in between each verse?  I am not sure what that says. 
 

 

Hey brother, how about those graves being opened?  Anything on when they were closed?  

With the dead not rising and still being in Hades, how did Christ rise?   Or is there a verse I missed?  

 

5 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I am skipping the conjecture on what is a soul from Gen 2:7 as that corrupts everything that follows it which is apparent because  none of the questions false doctrine renders void, are ever addressed  But that's ok, it's seems to be the trend of the day

I have posted Scripture and will be commenting on some of the verses to draw the attention to WHERE DO WE GO once the flesh bodies die.  SOME don't go to Hades as you will soon see.  Can't go wrong when we use Gods words as our base.  

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

Not going to  qualify where Jesus is going at this point, He will make it perfectly clear in a second.  BUT WHERE EVER that turns out to be ONE THING FOR SURE,  we shalt follow Him afterwards.  
 

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.

Can't go now as there is still work for the Lord to finish.  BUT LATER is a go. 

John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in Me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

I must admit, I don't understand HOW this isn't the clearest thing ever written.  I GO PREPARE, WILL COME GET YOU MYSELF, YOU WILL BE WITH ME.  I AM GOING TO HEAVEN
 

John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto Him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

AT least the 'where He goes is no longer a problem' as the HOW CAN WE KNOW THE WAY remains to be. 

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

GOD is in heaven,  Jesus is going to heaven and NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER (who is in heaven) BUT through the Lord and Saviour.  THERE is NO discussion about any return to earth and gathering up.  
 

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

For SURE we know where Christ is talking about.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth Me no more; but ye see Me: because I live, ye shall live also.

Not die, live.  Not sleep, live.  Not hades, but with HIM IN HEAVEN, where He is

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

WHAT DAY?  The day HE COMES to meet me so I can be WHERE He is.  And I will know as He brings me to the FATHER
 

John 14:21 He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.

John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

NOT A Church, not a group, but A MAN. 

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

John 16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

HAVE YOU ASKED THIS QUESTION?

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

Why will we be able to see HIM? BECAUSE HE GOES TO THE FATHER AND SO DO WE

John 17:24
FATHER I WILL THAT THEY ALSO WHOM THOU HAST GIVEN ME BE WITH ME WHERE I AM THAT THEY MAY BEHOLD MY GLORY WHICH THOU HAST GIVEN ME FOR THOU LOVEDST ME BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD


When Christ returns He will be amongst everyone, not just those 'though hast given me' so it can't be at that point a resurrection takes place.  These verses CAN'T be made to fit with anything OTHER THAN immediate resurrection, raising up from the dead, passing through death AND changing bodies IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE 

THE DEAD are those who didn't receive LIFE.  They don't get to see Christ in His glory.  They don't get to go to heaven.  Christ will not be brining them to the Father.  They will not be RETURNING with Him either. 

They DO WAIT and will be 'raised' when He returns as King of kings and Lord of lords.  

PRAISE YE THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY

Romans 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that He might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

 

 

OK esteemed sister. I will deal with John 14 presently, but I would like you to just, without comment, to post 2 scriptures that plainly say that man's destiny, or his destination after death, is heaven. You know, like "thou shalt not murder" which means that you shall not murder. Just two scriptures that say plainly that dead men are found in heaven, or that at death the man goes to heaven. If you have to post scriptures that don't say this PLAINLY, but that are obscure and need comment, I hope you agree to me ignoring them. This is not a lot to ask for such a prevailing doctrine.

Why I ask this is that I posted scriptures that say that our Lord Jesus went to Hades at death, Here they are again.

Matthew 40:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in HADES, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HADES, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised UP, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

These scriptures state plainly that (i) Christ went DOWN FIRST to the HEART OF THE EARTH for three days and three nights, and then was RAISED. Shortly after His resurrection (direction UP), He met Mary and said plainly that He had NOT YET ascended to His Father. David is still in Hades and his grave is still in Jerusalem and he is still DEAD. These scriptures you did not comment on.

[DeighAnn]

52 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

This is not a lot to ask for such a prevailing doctrine.

Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


 

Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

[DeighAnn]

56 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

 

OK esteemed sister. I will deal with John 14 presently, but I would like you to just, without comment, to post 2 scriptures that plainly say that man's destiny, or his destination after death, is heaven. You know, like "thou shalt not murder" which means that you shall not murder. Just two scriptures that say plainly that dead men are found in heaven, or that at death the man goes to heaven. If you have to post scriptures that don't say this PLAINLY, but that are obscure and need comment, I hope you agree to me ignoring them. This is not a lot to ask for such a prevailing doctrine.

Why I ask this is that I posted scriptures that say that our Lord Jesus went to Hades at death, Here they are again.

Matthew 40:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in HADES, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HADES, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised UP, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

John 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

These scriptures state plainly that (i) Christ went DOWN FIRST to the HEART OF THE EARTH for three days and three nights, and then was RAISED. Shortly after His resurrection (direction UP), He met Mary and said plainly that He had NOT YET ascended to His Father. David is still in Hades and his grave is still in Jerusalem and he is still DEAD. These scriptures you did not comment on.

How about them graves?  Any idea of who shut them up and when that took place?  I realize it was mostly just a show for the PROPHECY to be fulfilled, but the effect of His work was REAL.  

I absolutely agree that Jesus went to Hades.  He went there SO WE WOULD NEVER HAVE TO like almost everyone did BEFORE the work on the cross.  HE DIED under the OLD COVENANT and it took His blood to bring in the new one and the power of death to bind us in the grave was destroyed.  

The Holy Spirit PROVES He ascended to Heaven and is there presently.  

John 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.


16  Says to her Jesus Mary Having turned around she says to Him in  Hebrew Rabboni, that is to say Teacher

17  Says to her Jesus Not Me touch not yet for have I ascended to the Father go however to the brothers of Me and say to them I AM ASCENDING TO THE FATHER OF ME and the Father of you and God of Me and God of you.

18  Comes Mary Magdalene bringing word to the disciples I have seen the Lord and these things He had said to her

19  It being therefore evening the day same the first of week and the doors having been shut where were the disciples through the fear of the Jews came Jesus and stood in the midst and He says to them Peace to you

We do AGREE when Christ told Mary 'I AM ASCENDING TO THE FATHER OF ME' he was in the PROCESS of doing just that correct?


And yes, the CARCASS of David is TO THIS DAY, still in its sepulcher I think.  Is it or has it been stolen?  IDK.

 I don't get the point you are trying to make with these scriptures.  I don't even know what the question is.  


AND the grave was HOLDING ALL WHO DIED UNDER THE LAW and so died in sin CAPTIVE.  The gift of Salvation through FAITH had to be OFFERED to all or God isn't JUST.  So all those who took Him up on the offer LEFT being bound to death and ASCENDED to the place He went to prepare...He led captive captivity.  The NOW SAVED so Hades couldn't hold em group.  

[DeighAnn]

45 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Revelation 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


 

Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psalm 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psalm 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Psalm 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Ok you said you would not respond if I didn't produce.  Any of these help?  At least give me a thumbs up or down so I know whether your requirements have been met or not

[DeighAnn]

1 minute ago, DeighAnn said:

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

 

Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psalm 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

Psalm 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Psalm 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Psalm 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

Psalm 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Ok you said you would not respond if I didn't produce.  Any of these help?  At least give me a thumbs up or down so I know whether your requirements have been met or not

Psalm 27:4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.

Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Psalm 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.


 

Psalm 15:1 Lord, who shall abide in Thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in Thy holy hill?

Psalm 15:2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.

 

Psalm 84:9 Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed.

Psalm 84:10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

 

[DeighAnn]

Just now, DeighAnn said:

Psalm 27:4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.

Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Psalm 27:6 And now shall mine head be lifted up above mine enemies round about me: therefore will I offer in his tabernacle sacrifices of joy; I will sing, yea, I will sing praises unto the LORD.


 

Psalm 15:1 Lord, who shall abide in Thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in Thy holy hill?

Psalm 15:2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.

 

Psalm 84:9 Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed.

Psalm 84:10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.

 

Ezekiel 44:15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of My sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to Me to minister unto Me, and they shall stand before Me to offer unto Me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord GOD:

Ezekiel 44:16 They shall enter into My sanctuary, and they shall come near to My table, to minister unto Me, and they shall keep My charge.