Revelation Chapter 13 -

[BlindSeeker]

If I may say something here?

While some of the people have always lived in the area, and we all know that God knew that they were there and that they were His nation, man didn't. According to man's narrow vision, Israel didn't really exist as a government from the time of the destruction of the temple until The State of Israel was declared on May 14, 1948. Otherwise, why did it have to be proclaimed to make it so? Since the destruction of the temple in the year 70 until 1948 Israel was under foreign rule.

Roman rule until 313 a.d.

Byzantine 313 - 614

Arab 636-1099

Crusader 1099-1291

Mamluk 1291-1516

Ottoman 1517-1917

British 1918-48

Sister Traveller,

I am having a hard enough time here trying to explain this . . . it doesn't help any if you are just going to confuse the issue with facts.

.

[Celt]

Just because one can make a connection by happenstance does in any way make it realitive fact. The land that God gave Isreal was still Isreal even after the Romans destroyed the temple, dispersed the people, and changed the name of the land.

Talking about a national structure or the lack of that structure as being non-existant with out the people is really quit funny. The Land Of Isreal that God gave to the Isrealite people HAS NEVER BEEN COMPLETLY VOID OF ISREALITES or their traditions or thier laws or their religion or their national structure. There have always been Isrealies in the Land as God has always left a remnant to continue on in the land. So the land has never been without a national identity.

Read the bible and learn that God has always left a remnant in the land. It really is quit simple.

Exactlythe point I was trying to make. God prophesied that He would 'always' leave one tribe in Jerusalem for His servant David's sake (1 Kings 11). And He told us His eventual plan to dwell in Jerusalem forever, with those who believe on His Son. God's Israel need not have a literal government structure setup in the Holy Land for His Israel to have existed through history. So His Israel has never stopped existing on earth, even though He allowed David's throne to be removed, and the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. The ending of that kind of national structure in 70 A.D. was about the Old Covenant anyway, and it's clear since over 2000 years our Lord has not intended for the Old Covenant structure to be setup again.

[Celt]

Old Rome was a unified region pretty much close to that of the EU today and in my opinion pretty much the resurrection of the old spirit of Rome.

That theory just doesn't fit anymore bro. The reason many used to think a revived Roman empire would spring up in the last days was because of how the Book of Daniel covers last day events linked to the fourth beast symbols. The European Union came out of the European Coal and Steel agreements, and actually, it's real ideology that Schuman (French ambassador?) suggested goes even further back in European history, with European thinkers like Victor Hugo, who proposed a union of European nations. We may surmise the ideology existed long before public proclamations were made. The EU's own history adds the idea of its foundation coming from finding a way to stop Europe's tendencies towards division and wars, which in reality was a previous goal of the League of Nations (now named the United Nations).

Just the existence and power of such supra-international bodies like the United Nations should ring a much bigger bell as to the beast system of Rev.13:1. We don't find Rome and the Roman Church trying to silence Christianity today, but we do find those supra-international bodies like the U.N. trying to. The EU functions are similar, but still do not out-weigh the political and global power of the U.N. With that kind of comparison, the E.U. is like one of the trees, while the U.N. represents the forest. Rome's involvement would represent a small twig.

The journalist and author Jerome Corsi has already gotten information released from the U.S. Government via the Freedom of Information Act about an already existing planning structure for a type of North American Union to include the U.S., Canada, and Mexico (per his articles on Worldnetdaily news). Our leaders in D.C. are not bothering to ask how the American people feel about such plans; they're simply just going forward with its planning stages. If that comes about, then what would a joint American Union and European Union represent? And further, if an Asian-Pacific Union were established eventually also, that would bring forth the tri-part plan of the Tri-lateral Commission which ex-President Jimmy Carter and Zbigniew Brezeniski sponsored in the '70's. The 'spirit' that beast system is really about, is Illuminist ideology, which has its roots from ancient Babylon.

[Massorite]

If I may say something here?

While some of the people have always lived in the area, and we all know that God knew that they were there and that they were His nation, man didn't. According to man's narrow vision, Israel didn't really exist as a government from the time of the destruction of the temple until The State of Israel was declared on May 14, 1948. Otherwise, why did it have to be proclaimed to make it so? Since the destruction of the temple in the year 70 until 1948 Israel was under foreign rule.

Roman rule until 313 a.d.

Byzantine 313 - 614

Arab 636-1099

Crusader 1099-1291

Mamluk 1291-1516

Ottoman 1517-1917

British 1918-48

Agreed. It had to be re-declared/proclaimed by men because man has tunnel vision. But are we dealing with the word of God from the prospective of men or are we dealing with the word of God from the prospective of God. Do we take into consideration the prospective of men when we read/study the bible? Yes because man is inherently wrong about his assumptions/deductions when it comes to the word of God. Which is why God tells us to study to be proved. Proved of what or who? Proved of God!

When we start coming up with stuff that is certainly not what scripture intended or is not clearly stated in the bible then we have gone the wrong way. Even if it is on one subject only, and if we teach it we are teaching wrong and cause others to understand wrongly.

There is no relationship that is clearly stated between the satan who was, but was not, yet still is and the nation of Isreal. Because in the mind of God Israel was never NOT but satan was. That is what is written in the word of God by God because it was in the mind of God when it was written. But the relationship between Israel and satan does not exist in scripture in the mind of God because it was not written in the word of God so it there is no connection all.

[Massorite]

Just because one can make a connection by happenstance does in any way make it realitive fact.

The

[BlindSeeker]

A "realitive fact" is a real provable fact. A fact that is not provable is fiction made up from the imaginations of a man and worthless. Somthing kind of like your trying to teach here. Or convince me and who every reads this thread of. Ok! Have it your way.

Oh . . . ok.

Kinda like your word "realitive" above, it is a good example of "fiction made up from the imaginations of a man . . . kind of like you're trying to teach here. Or convince me and who every reads this thread of. Ok! Have it your way."

[BlindSeeker]

Old Rome was a unified region pretty much close to that of the EU today and in my opinion pretty much the resurrection of the old spirit of Rome.

That theory just doesn't fit anymore bro. . . .

Thanks

[BlindSeeker]

Bump . . .

But if you haven't read the OP . . . maybe now is a good time before you post

[Massorite]

A "realitive fact" is a real provable fact. A fact that is not provable is fiction made up from the imaginations of a man and worthless. Somthing kind of like your trying to teach here. Or convince me and who every reads this thread of. Ok! Have it your way.

Oh . . . ok.

Kinda like your word "realitive" above, it is a good example of "fiction made up from the imaginations of a man . . . kind of like you're trying to teach here. Or convince me and who every reads this thread of. Ok! Have it your way."

Thank you very much. I will and I do.

[BlindSeeker]

Thank you very much. I will and I do.

Excellent.

Very well then . . . . bump.