Hell

[Riverwalker]

13 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Hades and hell is eternal torment. If a person dies without God and has had a horrible illness their suffering has just begun if they do not go to heaven. In fact it is worse than any suffering they have experienced on earth. 

I have never found eternal torment in the bible,

The fire is eternal

The smoke there of is eternal

(and the lake of fire was meant for the devil and His angels who will suffer forever)

The punishment (the second death) eternal but cannot find torment

Also the scripture I quoted clearly states that hell gives up its dead to be judged and the final disposition is in the lake of fire

 

And then I see no justice in the eternal torment of a human being for being foolish. They wanted no God, they get no God, just enteral death....forever

[Hobie_]

28 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

To my understanding hell is the grave, the place the lost await judgment day, the outer darkness, and the torment is all self inflicted.  "Great weeping and gnashing of teeth"  is the ultimate sign of regret, meeting God and then being cast into the outer darkness, with the knowledge that you could have had all the peace, joy fulfillment et al....had you just not been so foolish 

But at the end of things, the lost are brought forth and judged. And if there name is not in the lambs book of life, they are tossed into the lake of fire (which was reserved for the devil and his angels) and meet the second death

Revelation 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

His angles are reserved in ever lasting chains

 

Jude 6:⁶ And the angels who did not keep their ^[c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 

 

 

Yes, but the Greek translation throws many people off. You have to look closely to see their original meaning:

Hades was the Greek work used in some translations for the Hebrew term, Sheol or grave as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.

Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.

Tartaro occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, and basically means the abyss or oblivion.

The Hebrew word Abaddon, meaning to perish or "destruction", is sometimes used and basically means the same as the abyss or oblivion.

In most translations they often translate Gehenna as "Hell" which was the Greek closest to the meaning. Young's Literal Translation is a notable exception, simply using "Gehenna".

In the Hebrew text it teaches that when people die they go to Sheol, the grave or Gehenna which is the consuming by fire of the wicked. So when the grave or the eternal oblivion of the wicked was translated into Greek, the word Hades was sometimes used, which is a term for the realm of the dead. However the meaning depending on context was the grave, death, or the end of the wicked in which they are ultimately destroyed in the specific way in which scripture shows at the end, which is a consuming fire which destroys them for eternity, basically the "lake of fire" we see in Revelation 20:15...

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Hobie_

[Riverwalker]

7 minutes ago, Hobie_ said:

Yes, but the Greek translation throws many people off. You have to look closely to see their original meaning:

Hades was the Greek work used in some translations for the Hebrew term, Sheol or grave as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.

Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.

Tartaro occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, and basically means the abyss or oblivion.

The Hebrew word Abaddon, meaning to perish or "destruction", is sometimes used and basically means the same as the abyss or oblivion.

In most translations they often translate Gehenna as "Hell" which was the Greek closest to the meaning. Young's Literal Translation is a notable exception, simply using "Gehenna".

In the Hebrew text it teaches that when people die they go to Sheol, the grave or Gehenna which is the consuming by fire of the wicked. So when the grave or the eternal oblivion of the wicked was translated into Greek, the word Hades was sometimes used, which is a term for the realm of the dead. However the meaning depending on context was the grave, death, or the end of the wicked in which they are ultimately destroyed in the specific way in which scripture shows at the end, which is a consuming fire which destroys them for eternity, basically the "lake of fire" we see in Revelation 20:15...

Revelation 20:15

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The lake of fire COMES AFTER judgment day

¹³ The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. ¹⁴ Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second ^[d]death.

[missmuffet]

21 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

I have never found eternal torment in the bible,

The fire is eternal

The smoke there of is eternal

(and the lake of fire was meant for the devil and His angels who will suffer forever)

The punishment (the second death) eternal but cannot find torment

Also the scripture I quoted clearly states that hell gives up its dead to be judged and the final disposition is in the lake of fire

 

And then I see no justice in the eternal torment of a human being for being foolish. They wanted no God, they get no God, just enteral death....forever

Matthew 25:41

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Luke 16:23-24

 

And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

²⁴ “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

2 Thessalonians 1:9

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Revelation 14:10-11

he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by missmuffet

[Riverwalker]

23 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Matthew 25:41

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Luke 16:23-24

 

And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

²⁴ “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

2 Thessalonians 1:9

These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Revelation 14:10-11

he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

 

 

 

 

Yes the fire is forever

The smoke is forever...

the torment is not

 

[missmuffet]

6 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Yes the fire is forever

The smoke is forever...

the torment is not

 

Why is the torment not forever?

[Hobie_]

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

Why is the torment not forever?

Because then the wicked would have eternal life, to say nothing of having the devil and his angels forever... Take a look at what would have happened to Lot if he had stayed in Sodom... 

Genesis 19:15-18 King James Version

15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, Hobie_ said:

Because then the wicked would have eternal life, to say nothing of having the devil and his angels forever... Take a look at what would have happened to Lot if he had stayed in Sodom... 

Genesis 19:15-18 King James Version

15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.

16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.

17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.

The Bible tells us that those in hell will be tormented by the fire forever and ever. That is for an eternity never ending. Just like those who are believers will be with God for an eternity. Those in hell with suffer for an eternity as well just in a different place. 

[Hobie_]

13 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

The Bible tells us that those in hell will be tormented by the fire forever and ever. That is for an eternity never ending. Just like those who are believers will be with God for an eternity. Those in hell with suffer for an eternity as well just in a different place. 

So is Sodom still burning, of course not. They burn until they are consumed, they perish, they cease to exists for all eternity, and they do not in any way continue in eternal life. Only the righteous are given that gift from God we see it throughout the Bible, thats why we much go over it as I said 'line by line, precept by precept'...

[missmuffet]

3 minutes ago, Hobie_ said:

So is Sodom still burning, of course not. They burn until they are consumed, they perish, they cease to exists for all eternity, and they do not in any way continue in eternal life. Only the righteous are given that gift from God we see it throughout the Bible, thats why we much go over it as I said 'line by line, precept by precept'...

You believe in annihilation which is not biblical.

Annihilationism is the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will instead be “extinguished” after death. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. While there are some passages that seem to argue for annihilationism, a comprehensive look at what the Bible says about the destiny of the wicked reveals the fact that punishment in hell is eternal. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: 1) the consequences of sin, 2) the justice of God, 3) the nature of hell.

In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously, if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, he/she would be almost instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate.

Eternity is another aspect which annihilationists fail to fully comprehend. Annihilationists are correct that the Greek word aionion, which is usually translated “eternal,” does not by definition mean “eternal.” It specifically refers to an “age” or “eon,” a specific period of time. However, it is clear that in the New Testament, aionion is sometimes used to refer to an eternal length of time. Revelation 20:10 speaks of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire and being tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It is clear that these three are not “extinguished” by being cast into the lake of fire. Why would the fate of the unsaved be any different (Revelation 20:14-15)? The most convincing evidence for the eternality of hell is Matthew 25:46, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in heaven for an “age.” If believers will be in heaven forever, unbelievers will be in hell forever.

Another frequent objection to the eternality of hell by annihilationists is that it would be unjust for God to punish unbelievers in hell for eternity for a finite amount of sin. How could it be fair for God to take a person who lived a sinful, 70-year life, and punish him/her for all of eternity? The answer is that our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is committed against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he stated, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight” (Psalm 51:4). David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah; how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin against Him is worthy of an eternal punishment. It is not a matter of the length of time we sin, but the character of the God against whom we sin.

A more personal aspect of annihilationism is the idea that we could not possibly be happy in heaven if we knew that some of our loved ones were suffering an eternity of torment in hell. However, when we arrive in heaven, we will not have anything to complain about or be saddened by. Revelation 21:4 tells us, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” If some of our loved ones are not in heaven, we will be in 100 percent complete agreement that they do not belong there and that they are condemned by their own refusal to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 3:16; 14:6). It is hard to understand this, but we will not be saddened by the lack of their presence. Our focus should not be on how we can enjoy heaven without all of our loved ones there, but on how we can point our loved ones to faith in Christ so that they will be there.

Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.

https://www.gotquestions.org/annihilationism.html

FOR FURTHER S

Edited January 26, 2022 by missmuffet