Lord: Rise Now and Judge the World

[Keras]

11 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Why was it stated they were not all the same trumpet in the first post?

I perceive that your questions are designed to entrap me. 

Why? Does what I post conflict with your beliefs? 

There will be a Trumpet blast when Jesus Returns and another after the Millennium to call up all the dead for Judgment. Simple really. 

 

[transmogrified]

8 hours ago, Keras said:

I perceive that your questions are designed to entrap me. 

No,  sometimes I have inadvertently said something that I didn't really mean, and I apologized even though it was not intentional just for my own conscience sake.

 

9 hours ago, Keras said:

There will be a Trumpet blast when Jesus Returns and another after the Millennium to call up all the dead for Judgment. Simple really. 

The error here is that Paul did not break up the resurrection into two groups of saints at two different times...he specifically said we would ALL be changed in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the Last Trump...

He did not say part of the saints would be changed at one trumpet, and another part changed later at another trumpet... No. One group of all the saints. One Trumpet. At the same time. In a moment. In a twinkling of an eye.

Both scriptures about the rest of the dead and what Paul is saying about all being changed at the Last Trumpet are inspired of God and are true...there are many scriptures about all the saints being both resurrected and returning with Jesus at the Second Coming.

1 Thess. 3:13 states he will return will all his saints...he cannot return with all his saints, if only those who die during the tribulation are included.

Zech. 14:5 "....and the Lord my God shall come and ALL the saints with thee."

This coming is when he sets his foot on the Mt. of Olives...it does not happen at the end of the 1000 years.

Jesus said 'ALL that believe on him will be resurrected on the last day...' What is being put forth is that only SOME of the believers will be raised on the last day, and then the other believers will be raised 1000 years later....this is not what Jesus said.

We have Paul saying

1) ALL will be changed at one time...

Jesus is saying

2) All will be resurrected on the last day

Zechariah saying

3) He will come with ALL the saints

Paul is saying

5) He comes with ALL his saints

Paul is saying

6) Christ the first-fruits, afterward they that are Christ's AT HIS COMING

Those that are slain during the tribulation are not the only ones who belong to Christ...God gave Jesus ALL that were his...not just those that were killed during the tribulation

The statement about the rest of the dead is true, but it does not make these scriptures void...they do not read:

1) Some will be changed at one time, and some at another time

2) Some will be resurrected on the last day and some will be resurrected at the end of the 1000 years

3)He will come and part of the saints with thee..

4) He will come with part of his saints..

5) Christ the first-fruits, and part of those that belong to Christ at his coming

These are quotes from 1) The apostles...2) The prophets 3) And from Jesus Christ...this is what the foundation Paul said we are to build on...

We are built upon the foundation of the apostles, prophets, and Jesus Christ being the chief cornerstone...

An interpretation of any prophecy that brings a person into contradiction with this foundation is false.

Blessings to you- Gary

 

[Keras]

3 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Those that are slain during the tribulation are not the only ones who belong to Christ...God gave Jesus ALL that were his...not just those that were killed during the tribulation

But they are the only ones who will be resurrected when Jesus Returns,  Rev 20:4

ALL the people found worthy, will be changed - at the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium. 

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

We're not just people. We are Christians. We don't need to be "warned" about judgment, especially not the world's judgment. 

Paul sys; we Christians should not be in the dark about God's Plans for our future.     1 Thess 5:4

From what I gather of the understanding of God's Plans among Christians that I know and on the forums;  they are very confused and simply do not know what the future holds. Or have fanciful and unscriptural beliefs. 

The Prophesies which I have posted on this thread and elsewhere, do tell the story of how the Lord will, once again - reset our civilization. This time by fire.             God has not given us such detailed Prophetic information for no reason.   His intentions are plainly stated; take note and be prepared, physically and physically.  Isaiah 26:20-21

 

[transmogrified]

3 hours ago, Keras said:

7 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Those that are slain during the tribulation are not the only ones who belong to Christ...God gave Jesus ALL that were his...not just those that were killed during the tribulation

But they are the only ones who will be resurrected when Jesus Returns,  Rev 20:4

How can all the saints come with Jesus at the Second Coming if all of them were not resurrected? None of the scriptures that were brought up were commented upon...Rev. 20:4 is of course true, but it can not be understood in a manner that contradicts other scriptures..

When it states 'and the dead in Christ shall rise first,' it does not say 'and those who were killed by the beast will rise first...' it is easy to see why...because those that were killed by the beast were included in the same group called 'the dead in Christ, but the point is they were not broken up into two different resurrections that took place at two different times with two different trumpets.... 

All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness.....why? That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

The route to get to perfection is by using all of the scriptures...like Jesus said...he did not say man shall live by some of the words that proceed out of the mouth of God, but rather that he should live of EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

When it says God will bring with him those who sleep in Jesus at the Second Coming, he is not talking about just bringing those who were killed by the beast...Those who sleep in Jesus are his servants the prophets, and the saints, and them that fear his name, both small and great...

Look at Caiphas when Jesus said he would see him when he comes in the clouds of heaven...which is the second coming.

For him to see Jesus he has to be first resurrected...but there is not just a resurrection for Caiphas at the Second Coming, for it says 'he cometh with clouds (Second Coming) and every eye shall see him, even those who pierced him.'

For every eye to see him, even those that pierced him, there has to be a resurrection of everyone both good and bad at the Second Coming for this is the time frame. And does the scripture say as much? Yes. 2 Tim. 4:1 states '...and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and kingdom..."

The quick refers to all the living, and the dead refers to all the dead. The dead does not just include the righteous people, nor does it just mean the wicked people, the dead includes both good and bad people.

The timing is when? It is AT his appearing and kingdom. When does the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord? At the 7th Trumpet, not at the end of the 1000 years. 

When does he appear? He appears at the Second Coming when every eye sees him...this does not happen at the end of the 1000 years. In order for him to judge 'the dead' (meaning both good and bad) they must first be resurrected. So when it says he will JUDGE them at his appearing, it is obvious they cannot be resurrected 1000 years later, as the resurrection has to occur BEFORE they would be judged.

The meaning then of who the rest of the dead are, does not mean only the tribulation martyrs were resurrected as it would disannul   what Paul just said in 2 Tim. 4:1

2 Tim. 4:1 should have said '...and the Lord Jesus Christ who shall judge the living and those slain by the beast at his appearing and kingdom..' but it didn't. It said he would judge the living and the dead which is inclusive of everyone that ever lived or died up to that time, as everyone is either in the alive group or in the dead group. 

So who are the rest of the dead? Picture the timing of the Second Coming, and Caiphas sees Jesus coming in the clouds. What has happened here? Both the wicked and the righteous have been resurrected for Caiphas, who was wicked, is now alive on the earth seeing Jesus returning with his saints in the clouds. All the saints are returning with Jesus so they have also been resurrected. 

Seeing both the good and the bad have been resurrected who would be 'the rest of the dead? Go back in context to the second coming...Jesus and the saints are returning to the earth, but what are they coming to do? They are coming to execute judgment on the Beast and his armies at Armageddon. What is going to happen? 

There will be a huge slaughter at Armageddon and God calls the fowls of the air to this great supper where they feast on the bodies of captains and mighty men. When will this happen? At the Second Coming, on the last day of this age, not at the end of the 1000 years. 

What do we have now? We have both the good and the bad resurrected on the Last Day, but we also have Armageddon with all the dead bodies of the captains and the mighty men. When will these be resurrected?  These are 'the rest of the dead' who were killed by Jesus and his armies on this same Last Day, but because they were killed after the resurrection of both the good and the bad had already taken place, they will not be resurrected until the 1000 years are finished.

This is shown in Isaiah 24:21

"And it shall come to pass in that day (Second Coming) that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high (Armageddon) and the kings of the earth that are upon earth (The ten kings who rule one hour with the beast) And they shall be gathered together as prisoners are gathered in the pit (they are killed by Jesus and his armies) and shall be shut up in the prison (bottomless pit) and after many days (1000 years) they shall be visited (resurrected and judged at the Great White Throne) 

These are the 'rest of the dead' who had died on the same day both the righteous and the wicked were resurrected, but because they were killed and had died after the resurrection of both groups had already taken place, they will not be resurrected until the next resurrection at the end of the 1000 years at the Great White Throne. 

Blessings to you- Gary

 

 

 

[Keras]

TM;

You say we must not cerate a Biblical anomaly or contradiction.  But saying that Jesus will resurrect all the Christians at His Return, IS a contradiction of Revelation 20:4.

What Paul has said about the Christians rising from the dead, all pertain to the GWT Judgment; AFTER the Millennium. 

There are several mentions of when the righteous dead will be resurrected and will receive immortality.  John 11:24 ...on the Last Day.  As Revelation 20:11-15 makes clear. 

 

[transmogrified]

On 2/15/2022 at 2:01 AM, Keras said:

You say we must not cerate a Biblical anomaly or contradiction.  But saying that Jesus will resurrect all the Christians at His Return, IS a contradiction of Revelation 20:4.

I am sorry Keras I didn't see your post till just now...

 It plainly states at the 7th trumpet that God will reward his saints, the prophets, them that fear his name, both small and great. This scripture does not say at the 7th Trumpet God will only resurrect, judge and reward just the saints that were killed during the tribulation.

The response to this scripture was that it would contradict Rev. 20:4. This is not a valid response...what does Rev. 11: 18 mean?

He said he would reward the prophets at the sounding of the 7th trumpet but then it is said that they are not resurrected until 1000 years later. They can not be judged and rewarded at the 7th trumpet if they are not resurrected until 1000 years later. 

He said he reward his saints and them that fear his name, both small and great, which would mean all the saints would be rewarded at the 7th trumpet. Who is a saint that is not either small or great? To be rewarded means they first have to be resurrected and judged, but then it is said only those saints killed during the tribulation will be resurrected, judged and rewarded...but that is not what was said in Rev. 11:18

When Rev. 20:4 was looked at, there was an explanation given about who the rest of the dead were. When it plainly said Caiphas would see Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven it was said he would not see him coming in the clouds and the explanation given was that he would not be resurrected until the end of the 1000 years and that he would remember what Jesus said. It was not said to him as if it was something he would remember, it was said to him as something he would see happen, which he could only see if he was resurrected at the Second Coming.

The problem is not that I am saying something that contradicts Rev. 20:4...an explanation for who the rest of the dead were was given and it was not rebutted or shown to be in error. There has been no explanation given for the all the saints being rewarded in Rev. 11:18.

God would not say all the saints would be rewarded at the 7th trumpet if they were really not going to be rewarded until 1000 years after the 7th trumpet. 

If all the saints will not be rewarded at the 7th Trumpet, why did God say they would be?

Blessings to you- Gary

 

[Keras]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:29 AM, Josheb said:

We're not just people. We are Christians. We don't need to be "warned" about judgment, especially not the world's judgment. 

From what I gather from my fellow church members and those on the forums, a proper understanding of what God has planned to do to correct the world situation, which is once again; as in the days of Noah, virtually all Christians are clueless about what the Prophets have told us. 

All can see the proliferation of ideas, theories and plain guesswork, of people who try to explain the Prophesies. There is virtually no consensus between any two people of the sequence or what will actually happen.    This is a very sad thing, as Jesus castigated the Jewish Priests for their failure to recognize Him and now it looks as if His Christian people as just as bad, in our lack of understanding of the Prophesies. 

[Keras]

7 hours ago, Josheb said:

Hmmm... 

Well Josheb, you disagree with my premise that the Lord will soon; Rise and Judge the world.   That is your prerogative. 

You are correct in that Psalms 94:2 says the Lord is the Judge of the earth.  Then it says He will repay the wicked as they deserve.   This plainly relates to over 100 other prophesies, which vividly describe how the Lord will act to correct the situation as it is now.  That is: as it was in the days of Noah. 

Why should we Christians be surprised and shocked when this worldwide disaster strikes? Isaiah 2:12-21, Revelation 6:12-17, +

 

[Keras]

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

Why is the focus still on judgment, vengeance, and disaster after it has been pointed out the prophets spoke about much more than judgment and anecdotal experience is not a sound basis the selective use of scripture? 

I see no reason for me to cease warning people of the forthcoming disaster, prophesied over 100 times in our Bible.  Just because people don't like it? 

The amazing Blessings to His people, generally come after this event

11 hours ago, Josheb said:

Scripture clearly tells us, for example, to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, not its judgment or destruction. 

We are told NOT to pray for Judah. Jeremiah 11:14 & 14:1-22   The Lord intends to wipe them out and only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 29:1-4, Isaiah 22:14, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:27, +

[Keras]

4 hours ago, Josheb said:

I ask why it is judgment is the sole action being requested and not the whole of what the prophets said? 

Because the great and terrible Day of the Lord's fiery wrath  is the next prophesies event we can expect.   It will change the world and commence the things described to happen before Jesus Returns.   Rev 8 to Rev 19:10

Christians are generally completely unaware of this. 

I 'request' nothing, other than the Lord's protection; when the Lord does rise to punish His enemies.