Charlie744 Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,699 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 863 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 37 minutes ago, MrBear said: I believe the Scriptures tell us the Jews (not all) will come to accept their Messiah at the end times- perhaps this is a majority or some significant number (???), but both Jew and Gentiles (so many more Gentiles) will still reject Jesus and see death. i sure hope they do come to know Christ but there are many like the Rabbi in this video that go BALLISTIC over the idea of Jesus as Messiah if you watch this .. and I encourage you to it’s interesting infact the comment on this was - this reminds me of what Paul would have been like before his conversion- I couldn’t agree more, very aggressive very stiff necked at the very thought of Jesus the Messiah of the Jewish people “IS JESUS THE JEWISH MESSIAH?(debate)” Dr Michael Brown vs Rabbi Freitag” I really hope all jews come to Christ I pray for this Rabbi God bless you and thanks! I have watched this video a few times and to be honest, I can not watch it again.... there are a few other Rabbi's that have attempted to debate Michael.... all have failed miserably which is why Rabbi Stover will not go near him. To be honest, I don't believe ANY of those that have debated him, including Slomo.... (to me he is a characterture), are the top of the Rabbi food chain. There are simply too many Rabbi's that really understand the Tanakh inside and out and can not accept Jesus. I believe they COULD accept Jesus but they CAN NOT AND WILL NOT accept Christianity - and to be candid, I would not either. The Jews were driven from the early church and the church (RCC) changed and corrupted HIS 10 commandments. The Jews made not have been able to keep them the way God intended (but who could) but they would NEVER change His Laws. So there are two MAJOR reasons why they COULD NOT get around accepting Jewish - 1) they were and continue to be mistreated, hated, etc., by the church because they are Jews, and 2) this Christian church has changed God's Laws. It is an absolute miracle that ANY Jew could or would find the Messiah...... I have mentioned this a few times... I am in the process of studying Daniel... and THERE IS NO DOUBT THE LITTLE HORN OF DANIEL IS THE PAPACY / RCC ORGANIZATION. The damage they have done to God's people and the Gentiles is beyond an atrocity. Charlie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,699 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 863 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 6 minutes ago, other one said: then why did he break the fourth? Jesus NEVER broke any commandment ... not even once. When the Jews continued to disobey God and turn to idolatry, God sent them to Babylon for 70 years as a punishment. When they returned to Jerusalem, they realized many of their errors and began writing down a gazillion laws SURROUNDING the 10 commandments in a earnest effort to prevent them from repeating the same mistakes.... Babylon did teach them an important lesson however, these 'laws' (small l) became a tremendous burden to the Jews. They became what others call ' a fence' around the 10. They were going to ensure no Jew would breach this outer fence (hedge of thorns if you will) and possibly disobey the 10. Their INTERPRETATION of how to protect themselves from repeating the idolatry and disobedience to God was the best they knew how.... let's make some laws that we THINK the 'LAWS' mean. But they had NO idea how God thought of His LAWS - they did what any man would do .... try and figure out what God might mean by not working on the Sabbath.... even today they will not push elevator button on the Sabbath because they 'deemed it work'. Consequently, on the Sabbath they have the elevators go to each floor automatically with no buttons to push. The same thing occurred in the time of Jesus - they watched Him and found that He healed someone on the Sabbath - well, according to my 20,000 page book on 'how to keep the Sabbath', here on page 16,549 it clearly tells us that healing someone on the Sabbath is indeed a violation. Therefore, they said that Jesus broke the 'LAW' while what He actually did was break THEIR 'law' (small l). If Jesus broke even ONE commandment or disobeyed His Father's wishes He could not have met the requirements of being: the sacrificial lamb (without blemish), the High Priest (cleansed before the services), the Holy Temple (which also MUST be deemed 'clean' by the High Priest before services or the Temple MUST be torn down. And of course, if Jesus sinned ONCE He would NEVER be allowed to return to heaven to be seated at His Father's right hand. Let me know how you feel about this, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,264 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,993 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2022 Ex 20:8-11 Quote 8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. ESV Quote John 5:15-17 15 The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. 16 And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I am working." ESV Take note that he did not correct the Jews accusations, just confessed that he was working on the Sabbath. You can twist that to fit into your beliefs, but if you just let the Bible talk to, it doesn't fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,699 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 863 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, other one said: Ex 20:8-11 Take note that he did not correct the Jews accusations, just confessed that he was working on the Sabbath. You can twist that to fit into your beliefs, but if you just let the Bible talk to, it doesn't fit. I believe Jesus did address His ‘accusers’ … and there is sufficient information to understand what God and Jesus said about ‘works’. The Tanakh and the NT have spoken on this … and I have mentioned the Pharisees ‘definition’ of ‘works’ was flawed, so I do not understand why you would still label His ‘good deeds’ as WORK. Matthew 12:11 and many other verses are available online that discuss this at length. Also, can anyone obey the 10 commandments WITHOUT the power of the Holy Spirit? Of course not. And doesn’t Paul comment that faith without works is dead James 2:14-26)? Faith in Christ PRODUCES good works. By the way, these are not MY opinions or beliefs… they are available to EVERYONE through so many sites on the net with an immediate click of the button. Jesus followed ALL His Father’s LAWS and showed us how to properly think and apply them - not in the Pharisee’s way of thinking and application - Jesus desires MERCY over punishment. Consider the adulterous woman scene - Jesus showed mercy without disobeying the commandments. The Jews wanted to stone her for disobeying the Law of Moses. Once again, MY thoughts and responses mean nothing! But you have all the time and opportunity to research this issue and then make your decision. If you come away still believing Jesus AND God are ‘working’ IN THE MANNER OR IN YOUR DEFINITION OF WORK, that is fine. But I hardly doubt both God and Jesus, who created the 10 commandments, which of course includes the keeping of the Sabbath from works, would turn around at ignore their OWN commands! Therefore, just as with the Pharisees, something must be wrong with their definition and understanding of what God means as ‘WORKS. Google: God’s definition if works, Did Jesus break the 4th commandment, Faith and works, All claims (CLAIMS) against Jesus for breaking the Sabbath. The Scriptures DO explain the Scriptures but there are scholars, academics, theologians, etc., that have studied this and provided their opinions. Then YOU decide the view that you find speaks the truth. But just saying Jesus ‘worked’ because the Jews CLAIMED He did is not enough to make a claim that Jesus broke the LAWS. Thanks, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,699 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 863 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, other one said: Ex 20:8-11 Take note that he did not correct the Jews accusations, just confessed that he was working on the Sabbath. You can twist that to fit into your beliefs, but if you just let the Bible talk to, it doesn't fit. Just two more quick things: 1) Please consider the ‘Sermon on the Mount’ in response to your earlier reply, and, 2) How many times did Jesus say, YOU HAVE HEARD IT SAID….(meaning He was telling them the interpretations of the Pharisees on the LAWS (Torah), and THOSE gazillion laws (small l) and traditions THEY created, and then Jesus would continue saying, BUT IT IS WRITTEN (essentially telling them they had it all wrong- THEIR interpretations and applications were incorrect). Jesus would continue and tell them what the Torah really meant and how to apply His Torah. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2022 17 hours ago, AdHoc said: I will not dwell on Jeremiah 31. It says what it says and the only way to make it go away is to teat that page out of ones Bible. LOVE YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,699 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 863 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, DeighAnn said: LOVE YOU @AdHoc I just read DeighAnn's response to your comment to my post regarding Jeremiah 31. Consequently, I went back to your response (cut / pasted below) that speaks to the Jeremiah 31 reference and I came away feeling / thinking that I may have completely misunderstand your comment... So, would you be kind enough to 'dumb it down' or expand your comment for me so I understand whether you feel Jeremiah 31:31-33 defines the NC brought to man by Jesus? I apologize for the confusion on my part, Charlie From: ADhoc: "But Jeremiah 31:31-33 ADAMANTLY states that the New Covenant is to be made (i) "in that day" when the House of Israel and the House of Judah are one nation again, and (ii) it is a Covenant of God's Laws. What is more, through direct statements of scripture, the Church was not revealed to the prophets of old (Eph.3:5, etc.), so even if doubt is cast on who the House of Israel and the House of Judah are, it could NOT mean the Church. Now, let me deal with the automatic objection to this, as Jeremiah 31:31.33 is repeated again in Hebrews 8 - a New Testament Book. I will not dwell on Jeremiah 31. It says what it says and the only way to make it go away is to teat that page out of ones Bible." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2022 17 hours ago, AdHoc said: I will not dwell on Jeremiah 31. It says what it says and the only way to make it go away is to teat that page out of ones Bible. I believe the entire problem rests with Christians. It is either this or it is that and there is nothing in between and no more can said than was said in the 1st century or by those who came before. Not allowed to build because THAT would be NEW revelations and we can't have that EVEN THOUGH we live in an age unlike any other to where ONE mind can access in seconds what it took other minds life times to put forth. SURELY God KNEW this accelerated access would open up doors that NO ONE in all of history has ever had before (no wonder He set life at 1000 years). But just try to put together MASSIVE amounts of truth and put it forth and you will find if they didn't know about it then, WE can't see it now. Though I think it is more sheep vs wolves or chosen vs called or regular vs decaf or meat vs milk. Help with the Jeremiah problem MAYBE and just so the page doesn't get ripped out, funny funny funny... LORDS DAY in a new new age. No more flesh (REV 19), all changed (Thess) Heaven on earth fire burning up elements so NO MORE DEATH but by lake of fire. STANDS to reason ANOTHER NEW COVENANT would be in the works for THAT new age, just like there was a New Covenant for this age albeit not as intense a change (no physical or earth changes) as the ones now are more slow and internal spiritual more than physical. None the less a new age. Recent to my understanding and came about through prayer and study on the 'the bondage to death' and what happens to whom at death/descending/rising and on the final day is there are quite a few different ways. Two options are not nearly enough to be JUST. We can't discuss them because there is never a moment to discuss anything other than what 'what is written' means to any given individual with whatever doctrine they follow with what ever level they have been measured out truth. ANY WAY just had to say THANK YOU for starting out my morning with the best laugh I have had in a very long time. I almost still can't read it without taking another minute out. It was just so out of left field....Have a great day.... d 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,699 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 863 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, DeighAnn said: I believe the entire problem rests with Christians. It is either this or it is that and there is nothing in between and no more can said than was said in the 1st century or by those who came before. Not allowed to build because THAT would be NEW revelations and we can't have that EVEN THOUGH we live in an age unlike any other to where ONE mind can access in seconds what it took other minds life times to put forth. SURELY God KNEW this accelerated access would open up doors that NO ONE in all of history has ever had before (no wonder He set life at 1000 years). But just try to put together MASSIVE amounts of truth and put it forth and you will find if they didn't know about it then, WE can't see it now. Though I think it is more sheep vs wolves or chosen vs called or regular vs decaf or meat vs milk. Help with the Jeremiah problem MAYBE and just so the page doesn't get ripped out, funny funny funny... LORDS DAY in a new new age. No more flesh (REV 19), all changed (Thess) Heaven on earth fire burning up elements so NO MORE DEATH but by lake of fire. STANDS to reason ANOTHER NEW COVENANT would be in the works for THAT new age, just like there was a New Covenant for this age albeit not as intense a change (no physical or earth changes) as the ones now are more slow and internal spiritual more than physical. None the less a new age. Recent to my understanding and came about through prayer and study on the 'the bondage to death' and what happens to whom at death/descending/rising and on the final day is there are quite a few different ways. Two options are not nearly enough to be JUST. We can't discuss them because there is never a moment to discuss anything other than what 'what is written' means to any given individual with whatever doctrine they follow with what ever level they have been measured out truth. ANY WAY just had to say THANK YOU for starting out my morning with the best laugh I have had in a very long time. I almost still can't read it without taking another minute out. It was just so out of left field....Have a great day.... d D, thank you for writing this response... Unfortunately, I am still confused - but that should not be a revelation to anyone within this forum. I do not seem to be able (yet) to understand the Jeremiah issue or if there is one.... I am seeing what apparently others may be understanding easily. Am I to understand that the Jeremiah prophecy is NOT fulfilled by Jesus and applies to the House of Israel, Judah and the Gentiles at His first coming? If so, does that mean the Jeremiah prophecy is still YET to happen? If so, what prophecy did Jesus fulfill if not Jeremiah 31:31-33? Thanks and I appreciate anyone's willingness to clear this up for me... DeighAnn, if my questions / concerns are clear to you please offer your thoughts, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah7 Posted February 2, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,610 Content Per Day: 2.40 Reputation: 3,183 Days Won: 11 Joined: 05/25/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, Charlie744 said: So Jesus did not fulfill this NC at His coming? Did He not destroy sin and death and remove THAT bondage we were under by the Cross, AND then send the Holy Spirit to us to ‘write those Laws (God’s Laws, Moses laws, 10 commandments) on our hearts SO we will have the desire to want to keep them AND give us the power to obey our them? Unless we accept Jesus as our Messiah and accept the Holy Spirit and obey His Commandments we will NEVER see the Millennial age. If we reject Jesus don’t we also reject His payment for our sins? Did He pay for, or do away for the consequences of OUR sins or did He do away with the Law (10 commandments)? If He did away with the Law there is no longer any sin- is that correct? And if that is correct then doesn’t EVERYONE (Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists, etc.) get to heaven since all sin has been abolished? Look forward to hearing from you on this- for me, this is what Paul had written abut about so extensively in Romans- Romans 7:7 and Romans 8:1-2 (Jesus did not abolish the Law of God but he Law of sin and death). Charlie Greetings again. Sorry I’m just now getting back to you, Charlie. I’ve got the Covid. But hey, I’ve also got my stomping shoes on so no problem. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV) This takes place in the future, on the day when Christ returns to bring these things to pass. This occurs at the turn of the millennium. Edited February 2, 2022 by Selah7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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