The Last trump

[The Light]

14 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Rev. 11:18- 
"...and the time of the dead that they should be judged, and that thous shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and to them that fear thy name, both small and great...."

Will the prophets be resurrected at the 7th Trumpet?

Ah, trick question.

Those prophets that have not received their crowns will be resurrected at the 7th trumpet.

[transmogrified]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Those prophets that have not received their crowns will be resurrected at the 7th trumpet.

When do the prophets receive their crowns?

[The Light]

1 hour ago, transmogrified said:

When do the prophets receive their crowns?

That depends on what harvest they would be in. I would say John the prophet that wrote the book of Revelation will receive his crown before the 7th trumpet.

[transmogrified]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

That depends on what harvest they would be in. I would say John the prophet that wrote the book of Revelation will receive his crown before the 7th trumpet.

There is no other harvest anyone could be in. 

1) Now...(at the present time rather than in the past or future, or immediately)

2) ..is the time of the dead....('the' is the definite article that precedes the proper noun 'dead.' Articles are words that refer to nouns. The English articles are: a, an, the and some. In English, “the” is considered a definite article because it refers to a defined, specific object.

3) ...that they ( the dead, the defined, specific object identified by the definite article 'the.') 

4) ..should be judged (the dead are judged at this time, now is the time, not before or after)

5) ...and that thou shouldest give reward to thy servants the prophets (he did not say that he would give reward to some of the prophets, rather that he would give reward to 'his servants the prophets.' If they were his prophets then these are the ones he will reward.

6) ...and to the saints (he did not say he would reward the saints that had not already been rewarded...)

7) ...and to those who fear thy name, both small and great...(he did not say he would reward those who feared his name that had not already been rewarded...)

It cannot be assumed these are people that were not included in a previous harvest without establishing there was another harvest.

At the sixth seal, the men cry out 'the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?'

The word phrase 'is come' is used in a number of different settings depending on context.

God told Noah 'The end of all flesh 'is come' before me...' however God was telling Noah what was about to take place, not that it had already taken place.

In Rev. 19:6-8 the saints were in heaven and had not yet descended down to the earth with Christ where the marriage would take place, yet they said 'Let us be glad  and rejoice, for the marriage of the lamb 'is come...'

In both settings the word 'is come' is used to denote something that was about to take place.

There are other instances where the phrase 'is come' is showing something that has already come to pass such:

1) "And we know that the Son of God 'is come' and hath given to us..."

2) "..that light "is come" into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light..."

So when it says 'the great day of his wrath is come' we have to see if that means the day of the Lord had actually come at that time or if it was still a future event.

At the sixth seal...

1) a great earthquake..

2) sun became black

3) moon as blood

4) stars fell to the earth

5) heaven departed

6) every island and mountain moved

7) men cried out 'fall on us and hide us from him that sits on the throne...'

Is this the time that Jesus comes and sets up his kingdom? No, it is not. The 7th seal is opened and the 7 angels are given 7 trumpets...the kingdom of God does not come until the 7th trumpet.

How do we know this? Because it says when the 7th trumpet sounded it says 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ..."

Jesus is not on the earth  when the 7 trumpets sound...his kingdom has not yet come...at the 7th Trumpet, and not before, the 24 elders fell upon their faces and said "We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power and hast reigned..."

The last phrase '...taken to thee thy great power and hast reigned,' is translated in other versions as he had now just began to reign...

NIV - "For now you have assumed your power and have begun to reign..."

ESV - "For you have taken your great power and begun to reign..."

RSV - "and begun to reign..."

NLT - "and have begun to reign..."

CSB - "and have begun to reign.."

 

 

[other one]

The last Trump is on the left::

[The Light]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:42 AM, transmogrified said:

There is no other harvest anyone could be in. 

There is a spring barley harvest, there is an early summer wheat harvest and there is a fall fruit harvest. The Lord has feast days on these harvests. There is a reason for these feast days. 

On 3/14/2022 at 6:42 AM, transmogrified said:

It cannot be assumed these are people that were not included in a previous harvest without establishing there was another harvest.

It's not a problem proving that there is another harvest. That's never the problem. The problem is getting people to recognize what the written word says. What is written is always read right over with no understanding as to what is written.

In Dan 12 we can see at the time of Great Tribulation, which is before the sixth seal. When the 6th seal is opened Jesus returns and many of them that sleep in the ground will be raised. I have pointed out this before, but as most other things, the written word is simply ignored. It does not say ALL the dead are raised, it says MANY that sleep in the ground will be raised. That in itself proves that there has to be another harvest.

On 3/14/2022 at 6:42 AM, transmogrified said:

At the sixth seal, the men cry out 'the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?'

The word phrase 'is come' is used in a number of different settings depending on context.

God told Noah 'The end of all flesh 'is come' before me...' however God was telling Noah what was about to take place, not that it had already taken place.

In Rev. 19:6-8 the saints were in heaven and had not yet descended down to the earth with Christ where the marriage would take place, yet they said 'Let us be glad  and rejoice, for the marriage of the lamb 'is come...'

In both settings the word 'is come' is used to denote something that was about to take place.

There are other instances where the phrase 'is come' is showing something that has already come to pass such:

1) "And we know that the Son of God 'is come' and hath given to us..."

2) "..that light "is come" into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light..."

So when it says 'the great day of his wrath is come' we have to see if that means the day of the Lord had actually come at that time or if it was still a future event.

At the sixth seal...

1) a great earthquake..

2) sun became black

3) moon as blood

4) stars fell to the earth

5) heaven departed

6) every island and mountain moved

7) men cried out 'fall on us and hide us from him that sits on the throne...'

Is this the time that Jesus comes and sets up his kingdom? No, it is not. The 7th seal is opened and the 7 angels are given 7 trumpets...the kingdom of God does not come until the 7th trumpet.

Exactly. Jesus does not come at the 6th seal to set up His kingdom. He remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. THEN the wrath of God begins when the 1st trumpet is blown and ends when the 7th trumpet is blown.

On 3/14/2022 at 6:42 AM, transmogrified said:

How do we know this? Because it says when the 7th trumpet sounded it says 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ..."

Jesus is not on the earth  when the 7 trumpets sound...his kingdom has not yet come...at the 7th Trumpet, and not before, the 24 elders fell upon their faces and said "We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power and hast reigned..."

The last phrase '...taken to thee thy great power and hast reigned,' is translated in other versions as he had now just began to reign...

NIV - "For now you have assumed your power and have begun to reign..."

ESV - "For you have taken your great power and begun to reign..."

RSV - "and begun to reign..."

NLT - "and have begun to reign..."

CSB - "and have begun to reign.."

 

 

You seem to have trouble grasping the FACT that Jesus comes at the 6th seal. He is not coming to set up his kingdom at this time. He is gathering the elect PRIOR to the wrath of God. He comes immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Can't you see these things? Jesus comes at the 6th seal to gather the elect prior to the wrath of God.

2 Thes 2

 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by The Light

[transmogrified]

19 hours ago, The Light said:

There is a spring barley harvest, there is an early summer wheat harvest and there is a fall fruit harvest.

In Exodus 23:16 and 34:22 it shows two feasts. The first one was called 'The feast of weeks which was the first fruits of the wheat harvest..and then there was the harvest at the end of the year called the feast of ingathering, or Tabernacles.

Ex. 23:16- "And the feast of harvest, the first fruits of thy labours, which thous hast sown in the filed; and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field."

Ex. 34:22 -"And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the years end."  

Where is there 'an early summer wheat harvest?'  

[choir loft]

On 2/8/2022 at 4:39 PM, kenny2212 said:

The purpose of this thread is to address the question of whether the last trump mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:51 is the same as the seventh trumpet sounded by an angel in Revelation 11:15-19.

        I subscribe to the school of thought that they are not. Why? I'll explain - 

There's a trump of God. 

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 NKJV(emphasis mine) - For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Exodus 19:13 NKJV (emphasis mine) -   Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.’ When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain.”

Now, who blew this trumpet? We're not told. But it seems where God is there is the sound of the trumpet. Even in the old testament at the capture of Jericho priests blew trumpets and God came on the scene mightily(see Joshua 6:1-21).

Even in the book of Revelation when the glorified Jesus appeared to John, Jesus' voice was said to sound like a trumpet. 

Revelation 1:10-13 NKJV (emphasis mine) - 

I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

12 Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. 

Paul's calling the rapture trumpet the last trumpet is because it's the last trumpet for the believers. The last trumpet before their glorification and eternal bliss.

This also proves that the rapture is "pre revelation trumpets". Unbelievers will be around to hear the "revelation trumpets" but believers won't.

Moreover I believe that the seventh trumpet in the book of Revelation describes more of a "coming down" than a "going up".

Thanks for reading. Any comments?

 

THE TRUMP

The ancient musical instrument is sometimes mistranslated in gentile scriptures as trumpet.   The traditional Jewish horn used for announcements is the SHOFAR, not a trumpet.  Use of the metal trumpet has been chronicled in history as far back as 1500 BC, but the use of the ram's horn, the SHOFAR, predates it by millennia.

Use of the SHOFAR announces the beginning of battle, the end of a period of self-examination and repentance, and several other facets of Jewish ceremony and tradition.  Historically the SHOFAR was blown to announce the initiation of hostilities - of battle.   In the book of Revelation, periods of divine war upon human  debauchery is announced by the sounding of a SHOFAR.

THE HUM

Beginning in the last quarter of the twentieth century and extending into the twenty-first century a large number of reports have arisen about the sounding of a mysterious hum in the earth's atmosphere.  Some people have heard it and been frightened by it while others haven't heard it at all.  

On one occasion I was awakened in the middle of the night by my dog.  He was very upset about something and I thought his activity meant he had to be taken outside to take care of doggy business.  When we went outside he didn't do his job.  The dog continued to behave as though he was afraid of something.  Our other dog (we have two) didn't notice anything at all and continued to sleep peacefully as did my wife.  While outside I noticed a peculiar hum.  The sound wasn't particularly loud and it didn't seem to come from any specific direction.  It was everywhere.  After a few minutes I brought the dog back inside where the sound continued to manifest itself.  After a few more minutes it subsided into nothing and both I and the dog went back to sleep.  I didn't find it upsetting - merely interesting and very unusual.  The next day I began to read about the phenomena and learned it had sounded exactly like a SHOFAR.

Go to YouTube and search for SHOFAR.  Play a file with someone blowing a SHOFAR and you'll hear what it's like.  After that search for the sound of the hum.  The two sound very much alike.  It's downright creepy.

Speculation about the source of the hum has come from everywhere including those who pretend to have a scientific explanation for everything.  I'm still waiting for an explanation about why we have to suffer those who think they have all the answers.

I have only questions and no real answers.  I and my dog actually heard something.  I had never heard it before and haven't heard it since.  

It sounded like something I don't want to hear again.

that's just me, hollering from the choir loft....

Edited March 18, 2022 by choir loft

[transmogrified]

13 hours ago, choir loft said:

Speculation about the source of the hum has come from everywhere including those who pretend to have a scientific explanation for everything.  I'm still waiting for an explanation about why we have to suffer those who think they have all the answers.

Hello and greetings to you-

If you look out the window and see hail and fire, mingled with blood and a third of the trees burnt up and all the green grass burnt up, then you will know the first trumpet has sounded...there are six more after that...see Rev. 8:7 -11:18 

Blessings to you- Gary

[The Light]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:11 PM, transmogrified said:

In Exodus 23:16 and 34:22 it shows two feasts. The first one was called 'The feast of weeks which was the first fruits of the wheat harvest..and then there was the harvest at the end of the year called the feast of ingathering, or Tabernacles.

Ex. 23:16- "And the feast of harvest, the first fruits of thy labours, which thous hast sown in the filed; and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field."

Ex. 34:22 -"And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the years end."  

Where is there 'an early summer wheat harvest?'  

Lev 23

 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the Lord, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord's passover.

6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

9 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:

11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the Lord.

13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:

16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.

17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the Lord.

18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the Lord, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the Lord.

19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.

20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the Lord for the priest.

21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the Lord your God.

23 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

26 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the Lord your God.

29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.

30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.

31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

33 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord.

35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.

37 These are the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:

38 Beside the sabbaths of the Lord, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the Lord.

39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the Lord seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the Lord your God seven days.

41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the Lord seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.

42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths:

43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

44 And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.