Angels

[Starise]

15 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Compare what is said in this verse with these verses-

Job 2:2

And the LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

Does that sound like someone locked up?

1 Peter 5:8

Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Luke 22:31

31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

 

[Starise]

20 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Malachi Speaks of the priests as angels of the Lord also.

Mal 2:1   And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
2  If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
3  Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it. {corrupt: or, reprove } {spread: Heb. scatter } {one … : or, it shall take you away to it }
4  And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
5  My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.
6  The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.
7  For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.
8  But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

 

In referring back to @Omegaman 3.0 comments on the differing uses of the term angel, sometimes it means one thing and sometimes it means another.

[Anne2]

9 minutes ago, Starise said:

In referring back to @Omegaman 3.0 comments on the differing uses of the term angel, sometimes it means one thing and sometimes it means another.

Yes. I thought the priesthood however laid some additional (or clearer) context others do not.

[Starise]

I appreciate your input here @Anne2.

As you are probably aware sometimes these posts come off different than the way they were intended. I hope I didn't seem dismissive of your post. This was not my intention. I was simply trying to maximize the benefit of @Omegaman 3.0 post because I would have probably just repeated it. 

Your mention of this text brings up a few associated things to me. Another word sometimes used in different contexts is the word 'prophet'. In some contexts that word refers to simply a preacher who preaches the word. In other contexts the word more refers to a person who foretells a future event, usually a bad one. In both cases these men are only mouth pieces for the Holy Spirit to speak through, and there is nothing saying a man can't be commissioned to do both, but I'll digress here because some of this drifts into an argument that would have anything prophetic as no longer occurring against the argument that men still are given a prophetic word. While I don't see men dedicated to foretelling the future as called only into that capacity any more since we have the future in our bibles and nothing is to be added to them that supersedes what it says......I see people getting a word from the Lord in visions and dreams even today. 

"Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Jesus promises the Spirit in John 14:26, But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." I am of the opinion that angels often play a part in these revelations. 

We see the tribe of Levi as entrusted with priestly duties. Before Christ in the OT the priests functioned in a similar capacity as pastors so far as getting a word from the Lord to share with the people. There were both corrupt ones and good ones. They were also messengers but not angels.

We can draw some similarity to how angels and men can be used of the Lord to do things that they could never do in and of themselves. Samson had super human strength and killed hundreds of soldiers with the jaw bone of an ass. David through faith killed Goliath with one stone from his slingshot. 

So, I see God giving angelic like traits to men at times when he decided to do so and for his purposes. 

 

[other one]

Those Angels that are locked away in chains are the 200 or so that left their places and came here in the physical world and mated with human women.    The other 30 million or so along with Satan, are still free to do whatever...

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Okay then I have a question about Jude

I have no problem that 1/3 of the angels fell, I am just not sure they are free to mess with men, as Satan is

Jude seem to suggest they are not

 Jude 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Personal thoughts on your question, I don’t claim to be correct:

The Bible is a supernatural book from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation chapter 22.

We don’t know when Satan and his followers fell, other than sometime before Eve & Adam sinned. I estimate that the angels of Jude 6 reference the angels of Genesis 6:1-4. Who married (sexual intercourse) human women that bear their seed Nephilim (fallen ones)? It is clear a seed war is declared between God and Satan from the start:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I believe most rebels are yet free to roam, torture, kill, deceive, and tempt. The book of Job and many other scriptures make that clear.

The sins of Genesis 6 were so grievous and destructive the Lord made an ensample of them to discourage any future mingling with humanity. It appears the four angels in verse below also sinned severely to warrant immediate imprisonment.

Revelation 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

The following verse is puzzling, considering the preceding seed wars mentioned above. Daniel's explanation pertains to the end times, specifically Nebuchadnezzars's ten toes of his colossus dream.   

Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

descendant ⇔ seed n. — a descendant, understood as the scattering of seed which will grow and bear fruit. (zě·rǎʿ): n.masc.; ≡ Str 2233; TWOT 582a—1. LN 3.35 seed, i.e., a kernel part of a plant that propagates the species (Ge 1:11); 2. LN 8.70–8.77 semen, i.e., the product of the male genitals (Lev 15:16); 3. LN 9.41–9.45 child, i.e., one that is the direct offspring (Ge 15:3).

The question is, who are they? They cannot be men as the scripture separates and disassociates them.

Berry, berry interesting. 😊

[Anne2]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

I appreciate your input here @Anne2.

As you are probably aware sometimes these posts come off different than the way they were intended. I hope I didn't seem dismissive of your post. This was not my intention. I was simply trying to maximize the benefit of @Omegaman 3.0 post because I would have probably just repeated it. 

Your mention of this text brings up a few associated things to me. Another word sometimes used in different contexts is the word 'prophet'. In some contexts that word refers to simply a preacher who preaches the word. In other contexts the word more refers to a person who foretells a future event, usually a bad one. In both cases these men are only mouth pieces for the Holy Spirit to speak through, and there is nothing saying a man can't be commissioned to do both, but I'll digress here because some of this drifts into an argument that would have anything prophetic as no longer occurring against the argument that men still are given a prophetic word. While I don't see men dedicated to foretelling the future as called only into that capacity any more since we have the future in our bibles and nothing is to be added to them that supersedes what it says......I see people getting a word from the Lord in visions and dreams even today. 

"Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Jesus promises the Spirit in John 14:26, But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." I am of the opinion that angels often play a part in these revelations. 

We see the tribe of Levi as entrusted with priestly duties. Before Christ in the OT the priests functioned in a similar capacity as pastors so far as getting a word from the Lord to share with the people. There were both corrupt ones and good ones. They were also messengers but not angels.

We can draw some similarity to how angels and men can be used of the Lord to do things that they could never do in and of themselves. Samson had super human strength and killed hundreds of soldiers with the jaw bone of an ass. David through faith killed Goliath with one stone from his slingshot. 

So, I see God giving angelic like traits to men at times when he decided to do so and for his purposes. 

 

No, offense taken. My only concern was Omega did say there were many more he could produce. I had hoped it did not seem to be that I thought I was adding something he missed. Rather this passage about the priesthood has always stuck out at me. As does this..

Joh 11:51  And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;.

I just kinda always like to bring these up in conversations of this kind to see if anyone has some thoughts. You did not disappoint. 

Thanks..

Edited February 24, 2022 by Anne2

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Starise.

As offered, I'm adding this information to the topic.

The subject of "angels" MUST be analyzed in light of the Hebrew language. Isaiah 6 speaks of "seraphim":

Isaiah 6:1-7 (KJV)

1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

3 And one cried unto another, and said,

"Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory!"

4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

5 Then said I,

"Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!"

6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said,

"Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged."

The word transliterated as "seraphims" (a mixture of plurals) is the plural of ...

8314 saaraaf (saw-rawf'). From saraaf; burning, i.e. (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically, a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color)
-- fiery (serpent), seraph.

Thus, it is a SNAKE with six wings and with hands!

Other places the word is found in Scripture are Numbers 21:6, 8; Deuteronomy 8:15; Isaiah 14:29; and 30:6.

Numbers 21:4-9 (KJV)

4 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass (go around) the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. 5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses,

"Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread!"

6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said,

"We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us."

And Moses prayed for the people. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses,

"Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live."

9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Deuteronomy 8:11-20 (KJV)

11 "Beware that thou forget not the LORD thy God, in not keeping his commandments, and his judgments, and his statutes, which I command thee this day: 12 Lest when thou hast eaten and art full, and hast built goodly houses, and dwelt therein; 13 And when thy herds and thy flocks multiply, and thy silver and thy gold is multiplied, and all that thou hast is multiplied; 14 Then thine heart be lifted up, and thou forget the LORD thy God, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage; 15 Who led thee through that great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought, where there was no water; who brought thee forth water out of the rock of flint; 16 Who fed thee in the wilderness with manna, which thy fathers knew not, that he might humble thee, and that he might prove thee, to do thee good at thy latter end; 17 And thou say in thine heart, 'My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.'

18 "But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day. 

19 "And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. 20 As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God."

 

Isaiah 14:28-32 (KJV)

28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

29 "Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent. 30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

31 "Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. 32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it."

 

Isaiah 30:6 (KJV)

1 "Woe to the rebellious children," saith the LORD, "that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: 2 That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt! 3 Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion. 4 For his princes were at Zoan, and his ambassadors came to Hanes. 5 They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit, but a shame, and also a reproach. 6 The burden of the beasts of the south: into the land of trouble and anguish, from whence come the young and old lion, the viper and fiery flying serpent, they will carry their riches upon the shoulders of young asses, and their treasures upon the bunches of camels, to a people that shall not profit them. 7 For the Egyptians shall help in vain, and to no purpose: therefore have I cried concerning this, Their strength is to sit still."

[Starise]

@Dennis1209

Thanks for your post.

I like that you are not afraid to approach subjects that might make others feel uncomfortable, especially in referring to the recurring subject here off and on that bad angels did bad things with women. Many will not dare even entertain such a thought as this.

For me at least, the idea challenges the thinking part of me to the brink, yet when we see the 'almost humans' often dug up in excavations many of them giant stature, it seems the puzzle pieces fit.

I took the same meaning from Daniel 2:43. It was a mix that didn't take properly. Thank God the plan will fail.

@Retrobyter

Thanks for your thoughts.

Isaiah had a vision or dream accurately depicting a scene in heaven OR maybe he was transported there. His response indicates he felt it was real enough since he almost came unglued. What makes this portion of scripture seem more like a vision to me is the fact that a coal was laid on Isaiah's mouth. It may have been a vision with realistic components that included a symbol. So I guess at this point I'm noticing the coal more than the seraphim, yet it is very revealing if we are looking at what a seraphim is according to this vision.

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

8314 saaraaf (saw-rawf'). From saraaf; burning, i.e. (figuratively) poisonous (serpent); specifically, a saraph or symbolical creature (from their copper color)
-- fiery (serpent), seraph.

Thus, it is a SNAKE with six wings and with hands!

Other places the word is found in Scripture are Numbers 21:6, 8; Deuteronomy 8:15; Isaiah 14:29; and 30:6.

Numbers 21:4-9 (KJV)

For lack of time I can't read all references now but I assure you I will.

Before you posted this emphasis on serpents I had been investigating the serpent connection. Reptilians have come up within the last several years and that idea has been propagated by David Icke who many have a word for that rhymes with boon. I don't believe this man to be a believer, yet a lot of what he says falls in line with creatures that people will swear they have seen. David describes these things as having cloaking technology and sometimes there is a glitch and you can see the creature in a person. To me it all sounds a lot more like the same ole' demonic possession. There are various videos out there most are doctored up, but isn't this always the case the evil ones mix so much weird fake stuff in that no one believes any of it. I admit the whole subject is more than strange, yet I think we can confirm something is happening. David thinks it's a class of ancient alien beings. I think it's fallen angels. 

I mentioned this before but it's not a story I enjoy telling because it isn't believable on the surface. Anyone who has studied UFOs might relate to some of it. 

Back in the day I attended a MUFON meeting. The only one I ever attended. It was more out of curiosity than anything else. In attendance was a college professor and aa Air Force person. I'm sorry I don't know his rank. I thought it was odd he was there. This was years before the so called 'disclosure' was happening. The professor was the main speaker and he told us, serious as a heart attack, that as an investigator he met a woman who claimed a large humaniod reptile entered her home late in the evening and raped her. Since this was MUFON I was taken aback that we weren't discussing UFOs. I never forgot that evening as I don't believe this person was insincere in describing not only this event but other similar events as well.

I guess if you had told me I was attending a Sci Fi story telling event I would not have been as surprised. This was all supposed to be factual information. No one flinched no one smirked and the Air Force was there. Make of that what you will.

Almost all ancient cultures include dragons and reptiles in one way or another, so I think you're onto something.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Starise

[Riverwalker]

4 hours ago, Starise said:

Compare what is said in this verse with these verses-

Job 2:2

And the LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

Does that sound like someone locked up?

1 Peter 5:8

Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Luke 22:31

31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

 

There is no doubt Satan is roaming about....the question is about the third that fell with him