First Resurrection, is it of Time Place or Rank?

[DeighAnn]

26 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

D, I’ll have to get back with you on this tomorrow, okay?  

Don't ever worry or be in a hurry when it comes to responses.  I would rather wait for a thoughtful answer than a hurried one.  GOOD NIGHT,  well by now I guess it's good morning or after noon!!!

[DeighAnn]

24 minutes ago, Hobie_ said:

Once, after the Second Coming, the saints are resurrected and taken to heaven. 

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 King James Version

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Then the wicked after the thousand years..

1. Revelation 20:5
   But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    
2. Revelation 20:6
   Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

How does 'neither doth corruption inherit incorruption' fit in with that?  

[Hobie_]

55 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

How does 'neither doth corruption inherit incorruption' fit in with that?  

The saints are raised up incorruptible and taken up, so their sins are washed away by the blood of Christ, thus 'this corruptible must put on incorruption' and 'this mortal shall have put on immortality', and their will be no more death for the saints. 

1 Corinthians 15:52-54 King James Version

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Hobie_

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

THERE CAN BE NO RESURRECTION OF THE SAINTS ON A LAST DAY

John 6:39-40

"And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."

"For it is My Father’s will that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.”"

John 6:44

""No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 11:24

"Martha replied, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”"

Jesus says there is a resurrection of saints at the last day.

 

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

We must remember THERE ARE NO DEAD IN CHRIST AS ALL ARE MADE ALIVE 

 

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

They won't rise up until  Christ returns.  Since they were never saved they have always remained SPIRITUALLY DEAD.  When they rise from the graves they will still be DEAD and will remain Spiritually dead for 1000 years until they stand on Judgment day. 

Rev 20

"The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete."

anazaó: to live again
Definition: to live again
Usage: I come to life again, revive, regain life.

This word is used of those physically dead and then the flesh being reanimated. It's also a term that's used figuratively as in a return to a lifestyle. It doesn't signify a spiritual condition. There are several very good arguments by Paul for what is and isn't spiritual life in Christ and what is and isn't spiritual death apart from Christ; 'anazao' isn't used in any of them, as far as I know. 

 

[Selah7]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

17 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Hiya, you.  It’s me again!

I say there’s only one first resurrection, and this first resurrection is of the just and it takes place at the same time and place.  This happens on the Lord’s Day.  Now I need to research the scriptures for my deductions.  Be back . . .

When you say only one, of the just, and on the Lords day, could you tell me how you view this? 

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.

Do you believe that the work on the Cross changed anything about death and dying?   Is there a difference between dying 'under the law' and 'under grace'? 

The events that happened on the day that Jesus was crucified is not the first resurrection of the Saints when Jesus returns.  I believe it was a miracle to show unbelievers at the time that Jesus was the Son of God.

Let’s look at what’s written:

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.  - 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 

(No one will be resurrected UNTIL JESUS RETURNS.  We just read it at the end of 1 Corinthians 15:23.)  Read it again!

…. and look here at this next verse in Revelation:

Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

- Revelation 20:6 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Selah7

[Dennis1209]

11 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Did you notice that from kings all the way down to the small and all in between are killed and that if any 'escape' (the remnant), they are slain also?

If none of the 'dead' rise when Christ returns, THEN who will we be 'priests' for and who will we judge and reign over for the next 1000 years?  

Good morning DeighAnn,

It is a pleasure discussing my thoughts with you and @Selah7. As always, I am not preaching or teaching, thus sayeth Dennis. I am not qualified for either, and I am strictly a Bible student who studies and has a hermeneutic view. The brightest biblical minds from the beginning all had different opinions.

The early church fathers did not see eye to eye, Peter and Paul had different interpretations, and Paul had to call Peter onto the carpet, so to speak, to correct Peter’s theology and example (Acts).

With my disclaimer out of the way, my electrical-chemical gray matter neurons are at work. I will refrain from pasting scripture, as this is already lengthy, and we all interpret the same scripture differently anyway.

To paraphrase, you are asking who will enter the millennium:

A remnant of one-third of Israel will be saved alive in their physical bodies. Because they finally believed the One, they pierced and called upon the name of the Lord. These Jews (God’s chosen people) will be allowed to enter the millennium, and most will live in their physical bodies for most, if not all, the 1,000 years. With that longevity, the earth’s population will quickly recover.  

Not all will take the mark of the Beast and be eternally damned and die before the Lord’s second coming. There will be a remnant of gentiles (the nations) that believed and accepted Christ as their Savior and escaped death during the Tribulation. They will also be allowed to enter the millennium in the flesh and quickly multiply the population.

As you state, the rest (God-haters, unbelievers, and those with the M.O.B.) still alive will be physically killed. They will not yet be cast into the Lake of Fire; only the Antichrist and False Prophet currently reside there. Only believers and saints will enter the millennium.

To again paraphrase, you ask, who will judge, rule, reign, and be priests in the millennium:

I need to make an exception and use a couple of Bible verses here:

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Who are the saints Paul mentions, and the “we” that John states? I believe that all those who died and trusted Christ for their Salvation were resurrected in glorified bodies. Some shall be over ten cities, some five, some over one city, etc.

Jesus will rule and reign with a rod of iron from His throne, and King David appears to be second in command. An analogy of kings and rulers might be comparable to the president, V.P., governors, mayors, aldermen, council members, etc.

Anyhoot, I bypassed the commercials (parenthetical) and described the written play as I understood the script in the realm of my electrically charged gray matter. 😊

A cranial lightning bolt is a terrible thing to waste.  

 

[AdHoc]

@Dennis1209@DeighAnn@Selah7@Hobie_

Hi you all. The discussion has taken on a dynamic of its own and having slept, I've been left behind a bit. I would like to address some of the points made. Naturally, and correctly, all resurrections are being drawn into the discussion. What we need to do is put each on its box of TIME and PURPOSE. But first we must establish what resurrection is for.

When Adam ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, God issued a command that Adam was to be barred from the Tree of Life in case he "also" at from it and lived forever. The word "also" means that he had not yet eaten from the Tree of Life. Now, this decision of God's to allow Adam (and his seed) to die is remarkable seeing as DEATH is the great and last enemy of God. God purposefully let Adam die - and all men after him. The reason is that Adam's damaged and corrupted body was not fit for God's Kingdom (1st Cor.15:50). It may be fit for David's Kingdom, but not for God's.

So resurrection is first a SOLUTION to an inevitable death. God lets the corruptible die and come to an end, and then allows His Son Jesus to enter death and then overcome it Himself (Jn.10:17-18). Resurrection is the open display of divine power needed to bring the dead to life. And so our Lord Jesus "BECOMES the Life-Giving Spirit" in 1st Corinthians 15:45. And in 15:22 our Lord promises that just as all men who came out of Adam's loins, that is, who were IN Adam, will be resurrected. Resurrection is a sovereign display of God's power to eradicate death. It does not matter whether it is Hitler or Paul the Apostle. God will defeat death.

1st Corinthians 15:23 -26 continues and gives the ORDER of Resurrection - Christ first, then those who are His AT HIS COMING. I will deal with the resurrection of the Old Testament saints from Matthew 27:52-53 shortly. But, continuing with the ORDER, "those who are His AT HIS COMING" implies at least TWO resurrections a few years apart. Why? BECAUSE Israel is His! Our Lord Jesus is Creator and Maker of all things and thus He is OWNER and King of Israel. So when scripture says; "those who are His" it means the Church AND Israel. This sequence is easily followed. the Church is planned to be resurrected BEFORE the Great Tribulation (Lk.21:36, Rev.3:10), and Israel is to be resurrected just after the Great Tribulation (Dan.12:1-2).

1st Corinthians 15:24 onward goes on to tell us that in the ORDER of resurrection, Christ must REIGN for a while while He SUBDUES God's enemies. The last enemy is not Magog. Millions will be slaughtered at the battle with Magog so death is still active. But what we want to discern is, how long is the time between HIS COMING and the last man being resurrected. It is the time from the Churches resurrection until "the REST of the DEAD" are raised at the White Throne. Revelation 20 gives this as 1,000 years. Whether you take this number literally or representatively, the fact is there is a period where the "rest of the dead" stay in Hades until that Great Judgment.

And what is another fact is that at the White Throne THERE ARE NO CHRISTIANS OR ISRAELITES RESURRECTED! They were resurrected "when He came" 1,000 years earlier. So the Bible gives THREE BASIC resurrections:

1. Christ and then 2,000 years pass
2. The Church and Israel "when He comes" and then 1,000 years pass
3. The Rest of the dead when all enemies have been subdued

That is the Grand Picture. But WITHIN this picture are DETAILS. And this is what sometimes causes confusion. Let's start with Christ's resurrection.

Christ was the fulfillment of many things. He is the Lamb, He is the Lion of Judah, He is the Temple of God and He is also the fulfillment of the "Wave Offering" of Exodus 29, Leviticus 7 and 8 etc. And in Leviticus 23, when God regulated the HARVESTS the "Wave Offering" was to be a SHEAF OF WHEAT "waved on the MORROW after the Sabbath" (v.11). God reserves the right, as Lord of the Harvest, to the Firstfruits and Tithes of each harvest. And the "morrow after the sabbath" is the day that Jesus was resurrected and became "FIRSTFRUITS of them that slept" (1st Cor,15:20). But according to John 12:24 our Lord Jesus is ONLY ONE GRAIN - and God commanded a SHEAF! So, on resurrection day our Lord Jesus was raised as THE FIRSTFRUIT and "after" He was raised, but on the same day, a contingent of Old Testament saints were raised from the dead TO COMPLETE THE SHEAF!

So, the grand picture is Christ's resurrection. But WITHIN this picture is some detail - the fulfillment of the Wave Offering. the saints resurrected just after Jesus are for God's SATISFACTION, not to fulfill some theological treatise on resurrection. They are NOT Christ, but the were resurrected within a few hours of Christ to fulfill the wishes of the Master of the Harvest - Jehovah. They are not Christ's resurrection, but they ARE PART OF IT!

So when we come to the resurrection of the Church, there is again the principle of the harvest and, as in every harvest, multiple gatherings. When we come to Israel's resurrection, there is some detail as well. There is the GRAND PICTURE and there is the detail. Don't let them work against each other. RECONCILE THEM!

[DeighAnn]

11 hours ago, Hobie_ said:

The saints are raised up incorruptible and taken up, so their sins are washed away by the blood of Christ, thus 'this corruptible must put on incorruption' and 'this mortal shall have put on immortality', and their will be no more death for the saints. 

1 Corinthians 15:52-54 King James Version

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

If I read you right,  you believe we are raised in our incorruptible bodies.  I don't want to put words in your mouth or assume incorrectly but THE timing is my question.  Do you believe we shall never die,  so when the dead flesh body is sown into the ground the spiritual body is raised incorruptible?