The dead in the graves and all but the alive and remaining killed, WHO DO WE RULE AND REIGN OVER?

[DeighAnn]

?

[transmogrified]

Not everyone is killed at the Second Coming....he comes and rebukes the nations and they repent...those nations that are left go up from year to year to worship the Lord in Jerusalem..It says the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord...those that are converted are the great multitude that no man could number of every nation, tongue and tribe...they came out of great tribulation and washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb...in other words, they converted at the Second Coming...it says 'many nations will be jointed to the Lord in that day...

Blessings to you- 

[Diaste]

The Nations.

"26And to the one who overcomes and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. 27He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like potterya —just as I have received authority from My Father." Rev 2

" 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!" 1 Cor 6

"Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles."      Zech 14

 

[DeighAnn]

10 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Not everyone is killed at the Second Coming....he comes and rebukes the nations and they repent...those nations that are left go up from year to year to worship the Lord in Jerusalem..It says the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord...those that are converted are the great multitude that no man could number of every nation, tongue and tribe...they came out of great tribulation and washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb...in other words, they converted at the Second Coming...it says 'many nations will be jointed to the Lord in that day...

Blessings to you- 

Thank you Please put what Scripture you are using to back that position OR if it is a conclusion,  the various verses that when combined, lead you to than conclusion. 

Here are a couple of the verses that lead me to my stated position.  While I believe ALL experience the 1ST DEATH, (which is just death of the flesh body) MANY soul and spirits rise in the 'imperishable but mortal' (still face 2nd death) body that lives 1000 yrs till THE GWTJ.  I also believe there are souls who DON'T RISE, who remain in the dust until the end of the 1000 yrs then face judgment. 


Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,


Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Revelation 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 19:13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And He hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

Revelation 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


This of course can not be a 'spiritual' death,  as all these are spiritually dead already.  

[DeighAnn]

4 hours ago, Diaste said:

"Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles."      Zech 14

But do you find it POSSIBLE that those addressed  as 'survivors' are those who are DEAD IN CHRIST (because they have never been saved) who 'rise' having experienced their first death?   IF 'survivors' don't have a FIRST death, how can they have a 2nd, logically speaking.  

[transmogrified]

 

 

56 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Not everyone is killed at the Second Coming

Ps. 22:27 "All the ends of the earth shall remember, and turn unto the Lord, and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.'

Ps. 72:11 "Yea, all kings shall fall down before him; all nations shall serve him."

Isaiah 2:2 "And it shall come to pass in the last day the mountain of the Lord of hosts shall be established above the hills...and all nations shall flow unto it.'

Daniel 7:14 "And there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion..."

Zech. 2:11 "And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people and I will dwell in the midst of the..."

Zech. 8:22 'Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem and to pray before the Lord."

These are just some of the scriptures showing the nations get converted at the Second Coming...they were not all suddenly destroyed or they would not still be here at the Second Coming.

Rev. 2:26 "He that overcomes and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations."

Rev. 15:4 - "Who shall not fear thee, O Lord...for all nations shall come and worship before thee, for ty judgments are made manifest."

Who are these nations that we rule over during the 1000 years if everybody gets suddenly destroyed after the rapture? Everyone does not get suddenly destroyed after the rapture...there are many nations that will repent and be joined to the Lord at the Second Coming...

54 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

But do you find it POSSIBLE that those addressed  as 'survivors' are those who are DEAD IN CHRIST (because they have never been saved) who 'rise' having experienced their first death?

It is impossible to be dead in Christ and not be saved...

59 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

MANY soul and spirits rise in the 'imperishable but mortal' (still face 2nd death) body that lives 1000 yrs till THE GWTJ. 

It is impossible to have an imperishable but mortal body...the definition of mortal is 'subject to death,' just the opposite of 'immortal..' 

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

I also believe there are souls who DON'T RISE, who remain in the dust until the end of the 1000 yrs then face judgment. 

Everyone, both good and bad are resurrected at the Second Coming...Jesus said the hour comes in which ALL that are in the graves will hear his voice and come forth....not the good hear his voice at one time, and then the bad hear his voice and come forth at another time...

The good and the bad fish are all gathered at one time....the net is let down one time and is gathered when it is full of good and bad fish...( Matthew 12:47-50) the wheat and the tares both grow together until the harvest...the wheat is resurrected and rewarded at the same time the tares are resurrected and rewarded...the harvest is the end of THIS age...not the end of the 1000 years...(Matthew 13:37- 43) 

 

[Selah7]

1 hour ago, DeighAnn said:

But do you find it POSSIBLE that those addressed  as 'survivors' are those who are DEAD IN CHRIST (because they have never been saved) who 'rise' having experienced their first death?   IF 'survivors' don't have a FIRST death, how can they have a 2nd, logically speaking.  

D, the dead in Christ are those saved Christians who died in this flesh age (like say, my Christian mom has already passed away, so she would be referred to as "dead in Christ."  Get it?

[DeighAnn]

56 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

D, the dead in Christ are those saved Christians who died in this flesh age (like say, my Christian mom has already passed away, so she would be referred to as "dead in Christ."  Get it?

Until you can tell me how someone who has received eternal life can then be dead, I can't agree.  
 

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Do you see the verse above?  Do you realize these are those who DIED UNDER THE LAW as so are DEAD THAT VERY MINUTE AND IN THE GRAVES?

Do you connect the THOUGH HE WERE DEAD with the 'and the graves that are about to be opened? and many were seen walking around (and many were not as the walking around was for PROOF that the bonds of death had been LOOSED FOR those who are saved/gift of salvation/eternal life when Christ offered LIFE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT and led the captivity (bound by sin in death) to heaven?  


NOW LOOK at the next verse.   THESE are those who are going to die AFTER CHRIST tastes death for every man.  Those who die AFTER HIS WORK IS FINISHED,  DON'T EVER DIE, DON'T ever 'remain' in the grave like those who died UNDER THE LAW DID.
 

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die.


WHAT THE LAW could not do?  The law could not FORGIVE.  So anyone with sin WAS BOUND to death by that sin.  Didn't matter if it was the absolute tiniest sin or the breaking of ALL the sins, if you died in sin you were bound in the dust of the earth.  WE KNOW there were even some back then who IN FAITH by passed the law of sin and death but not many.  

What happens if you die (the death of Adam) but WITHOUT SIN?  Without sin you CAN'T BE BOUND TO DEATH as death requires sin for binding.  THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB SLAIN washes us so that even at death, if we had a sin, it is washed clean and so we CAN'T BE BOUND BY DEATH and so we 'pass through' meaning the flesh dies as in Adam but WE ARE RAISED UP AS IN CHIRST AND WE ARE RAISED UP IN OUR SPIRITUAL BODY.  

so there CAN BE NO ONE WHO HAS BEEN SAVED 'DEAD' IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH TO RISE UP.  

Then who are these dead in Christ?  Those who died NOT HAVING BEEN SAVED but NOT because they heard the TRUTH OF THE WORDS OF GOD and rejected them for the ways of the world but those  WHO NEVER HEARD TRUTH.  For the 1000 years they will hear and learn GODS truth and at the end will 


Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Some of them will be found to be JUST, their names in the book of life.  Some of them will be found to be unjust, lake of fire for them.  


But THE REST OF THE DEAD....rest of what dead?  SOME OF THE DEAD WEREN'T TAUGHT.  SOME OF THE DEAD DIDN'T RISE.  SO ONE 'THE REST' those who didn't rise STAY in the dust of the earth till the end.  


So how you put them in the dust of the earth and dead with the unsaved.   I don't get it.     

I don't see the connection that you see.  I totally understand how the UNSAVED are dead and remain dead but not how the living can be dead.

 

 

[Selah7]

22 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Until you can tell me how someone who has received eternal life can then be dead, I can't agree.  
 

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

Do you see the verse above?  Do you realize these are those who DIED UNDER THE LAW as so are DEAD THAT VERY MINUTE AND IN THE GRAVES?

Do you connect the THOUGH HE WERE DEAD with the 'and the graves that are about to be opened? and many were seen walking around (and many were not as the walking around was for PROOF that the bonds of death had been LOOSED FOR those who are saved/gift of salvation/eternal life when Christ offered LIFE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT and led the captivity (bound by sin in death) to heaven?  


NOW LOOK at the next verse.   THESE are those who are going to die AFTER CHRIST tastes death for every man.  Those who die AFTER HIS WORK IS FINISHED,  DON'T EVER DIE, DON'T ever 'remain' in the grave like those who died UNDER THE LAW DID.
 

John 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die.


WHAT THE LAW could not do?  The law could not FORGIVE.  So anyone with sin WAS BOUND to death by that sin.  Didn't matter if it was the absolute tiniest sin or the breaking of ALL the sins, if you died in sin you were bound in the dust of the earth.  WE KNOW there were even some back then who IN FAITH by passed the law of sin and death but not many.  

What happens if you die (the death of Adam) but WITHOUT SIN?  Without sin you CAN'T BE BOUND TO DEATH as death requires sin for binding.  THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB SLAIN washes us so that even at death, if we had a sin, it is washed clean and so we CAN'T BE BOUND BY DEATH and so we 'pass through' meaning the flesh dies as in Adam but WE ARE RAISED UP AS IN CHIRST AND WE ARE RAISED UP IN OUR SPIRITUAL BODY.  

so there CAN BE NO ONE WHO HAS BEEN SAVED 'DEAD' IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH TO RISE UP.  

Then who are these dead in Christ?  Those who died NOT HAVING BEEN SAVED but NOT because they heard the TRUTH OF THE WORDS OF GOD and rejected them for the ways of the world but those  WHO NEVER HEARD TRUTH.  For the 1000 years they will hear and learn GODS truth and at the end will 


Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Some of them will be found to be JUST, their names in the book of life.  Some of them will be found to be unjust, lake of fire for them.  


But THE REST OF THE DEAD....rest of what dead?  SOME OF THE DEAD WEREN'T TAUGHT.  SOME OF THE DEAD DIDN'T RISE.  SO ONE 'THE REST' those who didn't rise STAY in the dust of the earth till the end.  


So how you put them in the dust of the earth and dead with the unsaved.   I don't get it.     

I don't see the connection that you see.  I totally understand how the UNSAVED are dead and remain dead but not how the living can be dead.

 

 

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)

D, in Christ, where do the dead go? Right; they have already gone to be with Him. So don't even imagine people "rising" from graves. They aren't to be found there.  Why?  They are already in the presence of Christ. Take your Strong's concordance and check out the Greek word and its prime roots for "rise.”  It means to stand up or present.  When Christ returns, those who have died believing in the Lord and are now with Him will show themselves or stand up first.

(17) KJV) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Selah.

 

[DeighAnn]

55 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)

D, in Christ, where do the dead go? Right; they have already gone to be with Him. So don't even imagine people "rising" from graves. They aren't to be found there.  Why?  They are already in the presence of Christ. Take your Strong's concordance and check out the Greek word and its prime roots for "rise.”  It means to stand up or present.  When Christ returns, those who have died believing in the Lord and are now with Him will show themselves or stand up first.

(17) KJV) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Selah.

 

The dead bury their dead.  The rich man was buried.   The Living, Lazarus, was taken to heaven.  

Luke 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried

So WHY would LAZARUS BE found where the rich man is when Christ returns?   


HE HAS ALREADY RISEN.  He did so immediately.   You saw the angels take him UP.  True,  he left his carcass on the earth but since we know there are 2 bodies and every seed a body by the process of elimination WE KNOW HE RAISED UP IN HIS SPIRITUAL BODY.

  If you don't believe that then there is a reason.  
1.  You don't believe GOD gave every seed a body
2.  You don't believe that when one body is sown the other is raised
3.  You don't believe we never see death
4.  You don't believe we just pass through life
5.  You don't believe we go to heaven
6.  I don't know

YOU SAY
It means to stand up or present. When Christ returns, those who have died believing in the Lord and are now with Him will show themselves or stand up first.

It is THE DEAD who rise first. Is Lazarus DEAD?  NO, he is with Christ alive and well and on a horse returning with Christ. 

Who is dead and buried?  THE RICH MAN.  The rich man did not raise up and have the angels take him to heaven.  He remained dead and in the dust.  He remained in the dust to see corruption and decay.  

Those WITH CHRIST ARE ALREADY being seen.  PEOPLE are running to have mountains fall on them.  Once the two witnesses rise, the TWO WORLDS ARE BECOMING ONE.  The spiritual would is taking over.  The just a few moments ago unseen world is being seen.  THE BRIGHTNESS OF CHRIST is changing everything.  Satan is being destroyed along with his army dropping dead.  The armies are seen as 'the dead'/rich man' rise from the dust of the earth.  NOW THAT everyone with the mark of the beast has died, we look around and ALL THOSE who have endured to the end are still standing and alive and now 'twinkle' they have received their new bodies, their immortality and have joined UP with Christ and LAZARUS in the air.   The dead who have risen from the dirt SEE CHRIST THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS and his army and His feet touch the mount of olives and NOW THE EARTH IT SELF IS CHANGING being brought back from corruption.  REMEMBER HOW THE WHOLE CREATION GROANS awaiting this moment?  


 
THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME HIS.  THE REALM OF HIS KINGDOM HAS COME TO EARTH WITH HIM.  THERE IS NO MORE A DIVISION OF THE SPRITUAL WORLD INTO THE SEEN AND UNSEEN .   THE NEW DAY HAS BEGUN.  THE TRAVAIL of the woman has BROUGHT FORTH A NEW AGE.  THE LORDS DAY.  



Tell me your whole story.  Put it into order and fill it with scripture to back it up.  Start from when we die to when He returns.  I would love to see it.  But BACK UP EACH STEP WITH SCRIPTURE, without it I can't follow what you say.