it is what it is

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Paul tells us: "we uphold the law." In Romans chapter 19 there is a long discussion about how "we uphold the law" by faith, not by works. David teaches us that the law was give for our benefit and well being. If we do not want to be taken to the wood shed then we need to live right before God. He wants us to live right before Him so that our life is a sweet aroma. There are over 100 scriptures on this. 

Hebrews 12:8 "If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all."

Thanks for your reply. It would help if you gave the scriptures. I know its probably a typo, but there is no Romans 19

 

2 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

We are adopted into the family of Abraham to receive the promises that God gave to Abraham and his descendants. 

 17Now if some branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others to share in the nourishment of the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, remember this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.…Romans 11

I agree that we have been adopted in order to be eligible for the Promises, but this by being Christ's (Gal.3:29). A Tree in parable is a king and his kingdom, not a family. The Olive Tree is Christ's Kingdom which, at the moment is missing the natural branches, and which is a adorned with wild branches. The Root is Christ. He is the only "holy" one (Lk.1:35 - "... therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."). Neither Abraham, nor Israel is "holy".

[JohnR7]

18 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Thanks for your reply. It would help if you gave the scriptures. I know its probably a typo, but there is no Romans 19

It was Romans 3:19. But you really have to read all of chapter 3. Paul is quoting David in the Psalms. David is using the words good and right. Paul just uses the word right or righteousness that comes through faith, not works.  I had some help in understanding this but I am not allowed to talk about that on here. Paul makes it clear that we are to be righteous before God. 

[JohnR7]

27 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

I agree that we have been adopted in order to be eligible for the Promises, but this by being Christ's (Gal.3:29). A Tree in parable is a king and his kingdom, not a family. The Olive Tree is Christ's Kingdom which, at the moment is missing the natural branches, and which is a adorned with wild branches. The Root is Christ. He is the only "holy" one (Lk.1:35 - "... therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."). Neither Abraham, nor Israel is "holy".

Galations 3:29 "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise".  Talks about the covenant that God has with Abraham. Even the "Jewish" people believe that the gentiles receive a special provision if they study under the Rabbi. But they do not tell the gentiles that. I learned this from a "Jewish" student - they teach them that. The new Jerusalem is 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. I think I will be given a condo or something there where I can stay when I go to visit. As a gentile I am adopted into the family of Abraham. Because the descendants of Abraham receive a place in the land that God promised to Abraham. This is the entire Arab continental plate. The sons of Hagar takes up most of land today. The sons of Sarah are given very little and they want to take that away from them. 

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

It was Romans 3:19. But you really have to read all of chapter 3. Paul is quoting David in the Psalms. David is using the words good and right. Paul just uses the word right or righteousness that comes through faith, not works.  I had some help in understanding this but I am not allowed to talk about that on here. Paul makes it clear that we are to be righteous before God. 

Thank you. All clear now. And yes, I agree with you. Here is my summary of the matter in Romans 3. But some background on Romans is needed to create the context.

The Church at Rome came into being without Paul. The gospel went faster than Paul and a Church formed in Rome. Naturally, as Ephesians 2:15 says, it was made OUT OF TWO peoples - (i) Jews in dispersion and (ii) Gentiles. But no one had taught them what Ephesians 2:15 also says - the Law is abolished for this New Man. The reason for this is that the Law forbids Jews to have relations with Gentiles and so when the Church is created OUT OF the TWO, the Law is nailed to the cross. But this problematic for the ex-Jew. He stands on his heritage and history and the Law was the basis of worship, diet and social life. And, added to this, it was the basis for fellowship with God.

So Chapter 3 introduces a new and superior basis for fellowship with God. The Jew as well as the Gentile, are each, within God's  dealing with them, found to be UNWORTHY. So what God does is establish a righteousness through His Son Jesus (i) Inside of Law because Jesus kept the whole Law, and (ii) OUTSIDE the Law because Jesus was obedient to a wish that that innocent die for the guilty - something the Law cannot require. Then, God takes this righteousness as his own (that's why it is called "the righteousness of God), and IMPUTES it to any man who believes Who Jesus is and What He did. 

This IMPUTED righteousness is NOW the standard for (i) allowing God to dwell IN a man, and (ii) allowing fellowship between God and man. So, although the Law is good, spiritual and God-given, it cannot overcome man's fallenness. It can only condemn the man. And the Gentile never even had the Law. So Paul concludes that BOTH ex-Jew and ex-Gentile MUST STAND on this new established righteousness - not one of their own making.

God is too holy for a man to come near Him - let alone become the Temple of God. The Law, because the flesh was weak, ended up doing the opposite that it was designed for. It did not make a man righteous. It made him a criminal. And the Gentile was already offside from God. This wonderful new and perfect righteousness, established by Christ and IMPUTED to the believer by God - is the ONLY way to reach God and have fellowship with Him.

[Riverwalker]

On 4/10/2022 at 9:55 AM, missmuffet said:

Yes, all Christians will be judged at the Bema Seat of Christ. We will already be saved so salvation is not an issue. We will be judged for everything we did while we were in these earthly bodies. Some will have rewards and some will not have rewards. Pray to God and ask Him to help you with your temptations. You can not do it alone. 

A very good point.....we do not seek to avoid sin to be saved...we seek to avoid sin because it is right and plasing to God

The reference scripture here is

1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The works we do, the lives we lead are not done to try and be saved, but to try and please God. That one day we may hear "Well done good and faithful servant"

as far as us continuing to pursue sin?

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

[missmuffet]

23 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

A very good point.....we do not seek to avoid sin to be saved...we seek to avoid sin because it is right and plasing to God

The reference scripture here is

1 Corinthians 3: 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The works we do, the lives we lead are not done to try and be saved, but to try and please God. That one day we may hear "Well done good and faithful servant"

as far as us continuing to pursue sin?

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Yes 

[JohnR7]

On 4/19/2022 at 12:07 PM, AdHoc said:

This IMPUTED righteousness

Paul repeated this three times. "Imputed" is a long word in the Hebrew. The point is that Abraham was not justified because he was willing to sacrifice his son on the alter. He was justified because of his faith that God was going to sacrifice His son for Abraham. He had faith to believe that God would make the sacrifice for him. 

This happens when we pray for people. We can not change their reality. We can change our perception of their reality. We then try to get them to agree with us so they can receive their healing. Or whatever it is we are praying for. People then can lose their healing if they go back to their old ways. People have to be transformed so that they  become righteous before God. So they see themselves the way He sees them.  If they do not become righteous, then nothing has been imputed. 

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Paul repeated this three times. "Imputed" is a long word in the Hebrew. The point is that Abraham was not justified because he was willing to sacrifice his son on the alter. He was justified because of his faith that God was going to sacrifice His son for Abraham. He had faith to believe that God would make the sacrifice for him. 

This happens when we pray for people. We can not change their reality. We can change our perception of their reality. We then try to get them to agree with us so they can receive their healing. Or whatever it is we are praying for. People then can lose their healing if they go back to their old ways. People have to be transformed so that they  become righteous before God. So they see themselves the way He sees them.  If they do not become righteous, then nothing has been imputed. 

Yes. The case of Abraham and Isaac is the standard. Abraham had left his home country and become a sojourner. He is promised the Land of his sojourn but almost immediately God says that he will die not having OWNED the Land. Thus, his faith is tested because he MUST now believe that God will resurrect him. But Isaac presents an even greater challenge. Let us not even debate the heaviness of heart as Abraham trudges for three days knowing what is to come. Let us look at it from the aspect of God's Word.

God promised that Abraham, as his name says, will be "father of many nations". But his wife is barren and by trying to "help" God, he goes in unto Hagar. This firstborn son, Ishmael, Abraham loved. But God is not One who builds on the efforts of the flesh, and Ishmael is to be blessed, but set aside as Heir. Some 13 years later Isaac is born because the Almighty can overcome barrenness. Now Abraham has an Heir. But at the time of God's command to sacrifice Isaac, Isaac was without seed. If he died, not only the Heir would be gone but there would be no grandson to carry the line. And even resurrection would not help because, as Luke 20:35-36 says, in resurrection there is no marriage. So Isaac's death would be s definite end to Abraham's prodigy AND the end of God's Promise.

In the face of this doom, Abraham still believes God! He has believed God for the Land. He is tested again with Ishmael. He is tested with a barren wife and now he is tested with the absolute IMPOSSIBLE. How can his lineage via Isaac be continued? Even if Isaac is resurrected, there is no having children in resurrection. In a sense, we see Abraham's dilemma, but had not God put Himself in a position that even He could not get out of? Well, we know that God is never taken by surprise and never in a corner. But think of Abraham. He had to believe, even against God's odds, that God would somehow overcome this situation.

The rest of the story, we know. But when God commended Abraham, we must be aware that Abraham had believed God even against what God had ordained. And this is the essence of our faith. Can we face a desperate situation and believe God? You say yes! Then can you face an impossible situation and believe? Yes? Well and good. But can you face a situation that God's Word has deemed impossible? This is the test of tests!

[JohnR7]

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

 

The rest of the story, we know. But when God commended Abraham, we must be aware that Abraham had believed God even against what God had ordained. And this is the essence of our faith. Can we face a desperate situation and believe God? You say yes! Then can you face an impossible situation and believe? Yes? Well and good. But can you face a situation that God's Word has deemed impossible? This is the test of tests!

Abraham believed because God opened his eyes. We are told: "On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance." Genesis 22:4 We are very close to the third day now. We know that Abraham look and he saw. This is literal but this is also symbolic. The third day is when Jesus will rule and reign for a thousand years. Some people call this the Kingdom Age. 

I was a carpenter and we did the impossible all the time. We just keep working away at it and then all of a sudden all the pieces will fall into place.  My wife says to do our best and trust the rest to God. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by JohnR7

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Abraham believed because God opened his eyes. We are told: "On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance." Genesis 22:4 We are very close to the third day now. We know that Abraham look and he saw. This is literal but this is also symbolic. The third day is when Jesus will rule and reign for a thousand years. Some people call this the Kingdom Age. 

I was a carpenter and we did the impossible all the time. We just keep working away at it and then all of a sudden all the pieces will fall into place.  My wife says to do our best and trust the rest to God. 

Wise words.

Go well.