WOMEN PASTORS

[Fiosh]

Three "minor" points.

People make two arguments concerning the passage in Timothy:

1) That Paul was addressing a cultural issue and that women were lower in his culture, thus his rule.

2) Paul wrote that in Christ we are all equal.

THe problem with this line of thought is that it defeats itself and proves itself wrong. If we buy that Paul was merely pleasing the patriarchial society then he would not have written what he did in Galatians, stating that men and women are equal in Christ. In essence, the position itself is defeated by its own logic. Thus, my three points as the alternative:

1) We are equal in Christ but this does not seperate the fact that we each have different callings in life. Equal does not mean we all do, or can do, the same thing. This might be on the individual level or on the gender level. Such as, God has called certain women to be mothers, which is an honorable calling. Raising and caretaking over a human being and dedicating one's life to service of this human being is extremely valuable. Thing is, this is a calling solely for women as it is quite difficult for men to have maternal instincts. This is not to say all women are to be homemakers birthing babies and cooking us dinner. I am saying some women might be called to that whilst others are called to be a CEO of a company. Either way, the fact remains, we each have different callings and certain aspects of our gender can prohibit us from the calling of another gender. Equal in Christ means that we each come to the cross as equal and none of us are blessed inherently more than the other. Grace is the same for all and the calling of Christ is the same for all.

2) Paul is discussing a calling issue in 1 Timothy when saying women are not to be in authority over men within a church setting. Paul is stating that, because of the fall, men have a calling to leadership concerning "spiritual" matters. Thus the pastorate (the job as the shepherd of the church) is something that fulfills a man's calling and not a woman's. This is why Paul limited the job of shepherd (authority) and teaching with authority (this is what the Greek means) to men. This is not to say women cannot share the Gospel or even preach from the pulpit a Gospel message, this is different than authority. However, because of the fall, men and women must hold to this different calling.

3) This does not place men above women simply because men are calling to the pastorate. If we hold to this view then we become quasi-Gnostic at worst and a misplaced metaphysical dualist at best. How so? By asserting only men being in the pastorate makes them "higher" we place a higher importance on the pastorate. We state that anyone who is in the pastorate is somehow better than anyone else and more spiritual. Fact is, the pastorate is merely another vocational calling and holds no significance over someone who collects trash for a living. Thus if men are solely called to the pastorate it doesn't make them more important or higher, it just means they have a different role to fulfill. If my friend is called to be a pastor and I am not, does this mean him and I are unequal? Of course not. THen the logical question must be asked, why does it make women unequal?

The entire issue requires a massive paradigm shift by people on both sides, specifically dealing with the issue of "equal" and "authority".

Praise God! I agree with you, SJ.

[apothanein kerdos]

You'd be even more suprised that I believe the Roman Catholic Church, when concerning this view, has almost the best practice. Women are still allowed to serve and share the Gospel (nuns) and thus allowed to fulfill their role as a Christian. Many fundamentalist churches do not allow this or look down upon it for some odd reason.

[Avidan]

Gentle, the Bible forbids women pastors.

1Ti 2:11

Edited November 5, 2005 by Avidan

[mrcorey]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[yomotalking]

A married couple is ok

[Avidan]

A married couple is ok

A married couple is ok?

The "Pastors". Where is the scripture to validate your opinion?

[yomotalking]

A married couple is ok

A married couple is ok?

The "Pastors". Where is the scripture to validate your opinion?

Because the woman is to be under the man in leading it.

Where is yours?

Sorry, the thread is huge, and I have limited time.

[RustyAngeL]

God is very clear that women are not to be over a man. God never intended for women to be pastors..simple

[yomotalking]

God is very clear that women are not to be over a man. God never intended for women to be pastors..simple

Not even to be joint?

[Fiosh]

You'd be even more suprised that I believe the Roman Catholic Church, when concerning this view, has almost the best practice. Women are still allowed to serve and share the Gospel (nuns) and thus allowed to fulfill their role as a Christian. Many fundamentalist churches do not allow this or look down upon it for some odd reason.

It's nice we can at least agree on some things.