Why were the SACRIFICES NECESSARY BEFORE ... Will they be re-instituted again ... and if so WHY?

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

Still doesn't matter, when WE reign with Him, the Father is not around.   It's just us and Christ.  Right now, it is Christ beside the Father.   And there is no Scripture where anyone can twist that around.

Shalom, Heaven_Bound. 

WOW! IS THAT EVER NOT TRUE! Don't you realize that Yeshua` the Messiah (the Christ) is the Messiah of GOD?! He is the One Anointed BY YHWH God! He reigns FOR His Father, on behalf of His Father! Just as He was always with His Father during the First Advent, nothing will change in the Second Advent! While the Father may have entrusted the Son with all judgment, the Son still communes with His Father and runs His decisions past Him! He LOVES His Father, YHWH God, and is ALWAYS with Him, and He ALWAYS wants to do His Father's Will!

Just for the record, check out Psalm 2!

Psalm 2:1-12 (KJV)

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us!"

4 He that sitteth in the heavens (the Father) shall laugh: the Lord (the Son) shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he (the Father) speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion! 7 I will declare the decree:

"'the LORD (YHWH the Father) hath said unto me (the Son),

"'"Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."'

10 "Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth! 11 Serve the LORD (YHWH the Father) with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little! Blessed are all they that put their trust in him (the Son)!"

This will happen soon after the beginning of the Messiah's reign upon the earth. The Father YHWH shall SPEAK AUDIBLY to the United Nations meeting, who will be attempting to throw off the Messiah's judgment at the War Tribunal to follow the War for the Land of Israel! He shall stand up for His Son and warn them against doing something stupid!

Rethink your stance on this! It is NOT biblical!

[George]

7 hours ago, Marathoner said:

It's grieving to witness strife springing from eschatological clashes. There's no profit in that.

In Israel, there are VERY FEW of US that are doing the work of evangelizing!  There are roughly a total of 15,000 Jewish believers in the land.  For those of us that are fighting for the salvation of Israel ... as well as my Palestinian pastor friends that are fighting for the salvation of Ishamael ... the opposition that we all can deal with is the Orthodox Jews and the Muslims!  You EXPECT it!  However, the crazy opposition that we face are actually from believers!  So you have this camp of preterist and replacement that come from all over the world ... go to "Christ at the Checkpoint" and spew antisemitism and Israel is not special in the sight of God.   All the famed preterist preachers go there, along with a host of preachers most people would never associate with! 

They hinder NOT only our EFFORTS in Israel, but call my Palestinian brothers aiding the "zionists" because they understand God has a plan for Israel and the Jewish people!  The replacement camp with the Palestinian circles vilifies my friends!  Many of my friends have been shot, their churches burned ... and yet, those who teach hatred toward Israel are protected by the Muslims in the territories.   Ever wonder why there is ONE so called "evangelical' church in the entire Gaza Strip?  What happened to all my evangelical friends?  Take a guess!

Then you have the host of "Christian Zionist" who support the nation state of Israel ... but literally finance the anti-missionaries that are actively paid to attack us!  The orthodox DO NOT WORK ... they are paid by the gov't to have kids and study torah... and their side income is from anti-missionary groups ... and a LOT of those funds come from "Christian" Zionist organizations!  This is why I have a REAL issue with Dual covenant theology!

If anyone is claiming to be a organization for Israel ... and NO WHERE on their MANDATES is the need for Israel's salvation -- THEY ARE NOT FOR ISRAEL!  I'm sorry -- our KING needs to be the center of whatever we do -- and His message our core message!  They literally prostitute Israel for their own benefit citing passages in the Old Testament ... I will bless thee ... and miss the very FIRST commandment given by Jesus ... Go forth and make disciples ... Paul's message, to the Jew FIRST and also to the GREEK!

So any group that is actively trying to HINDER my efforts in sharing the gospel ... I will stand up to ... and face it head on!   

The reality most of these camps from which these bad doctrines come from are DEAD CHURCHES!  They haven't had a move of God in so long because it's without POWER!   Most of these proponents come from dead Methodist, Presbyterian, Orthodox branches of Christianity ... 

If someone wonders why those of us get attacks from all sides ... its' because I teach people the need to REPENT and why it's important to live a lifestyle of Repentance!  The need to walk filled with an anointing of the Holy Ghost on a daily basis!  Teaching the true understanding of what a disciple does ... to carry their cross daily ... to be a living sacrifice to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

If a doctrine hinders that ... I'm going to call it out ... and won't stop doing so!  In the past, we had really solid posters that did so ... however, it seems that many have left for whatever reason.  So I'll take up the issue ... and continue to teach the entire WORD of GOD ... only the Word of God can recover someone in error!

[missmuffet]

18 minutes ago, George said:

In Israel, there are VERY FEW of US that are doing the work of evangelizing!  There are roughly a total of 15,000 Jewish believers in the land.  For those of us that are fighting for the salvation of Israel ... as well as my Palestinian pastor friends that are fighting for the salvation of Ishamael ... the opposition that we all can deal with is the Orthodox Jews and the Muslims!  You EXPECT it!  However, the crazy opposition that we face are actually from believers!  So you have this camp of preterist and replacement that come from all over the world ... go to "Christ at the Checkpoint" and spew antisemitism and Israel is not special in the sight of God.   All the famed preterist preachers go there, along with a host of preachers most people would never associate with! 

They hinder NOT only our EFFORTS in Israel, but call my Palestinian brothers aiding the "zionists" because they understand God has a plan for Israel and the Jewish people!  The replacement camp with the Palestinian circles vilifies my friends!  Many of my friends have been shot, their churches burned ... and yet, those who teach hatred toward Israel are protected by the Muslims in the territories.   Ever wonder why there is ONE so called "evangelical' church in the entire Gaza Strip?  What happened to all my evangelical friends?  Take a guess!

Then you have the host of "Christian Zionist" who support the nation state of Israel ... but literally finance the anti-missionaries that are actively paid to attack us!  The orthodox DO NOT WORK ... they are paid by the gov't to have kids and study torah... and their side income is from anti-missionary groups ... and a LOT of those funds come from "Christian" Zionist organizations!  This is why I have a REAL issue with Dual covenant theology!

If anyone is claiming to be a organization for Israel ... and NO WHERE on their MANDATES is the need for Israel's salvation -- THEY ARE NOT FOR ISRAEL!  I'm sorry -- our KING needs to be the center of whatever we do -- and His message our core message!  They literally prostitute Israel for their own benefit citing passages in the Old Testament ... I will bless thee ... and miss the very FIRST commandment given by Jesus ... Go forth and make disciples ... Paul's message, to the Jew FIRST and also to the GREEK!

So any group that is actively trying to HINDER my efforts in sharing the gospel ... I will stand up to ... and face it head on!   

The reality most of these camps from which these bad doctrines come from are DEAD CHURCHES!  They haven't had a move of God in so long because it's without POWER!   Most of these proponents come from dead Methodist, Presbyterian, Orthodox branches of Christianity ... 

If someone wonders why those of us get attacks from all sides ... its' because I teach people the need to REPENT and why it's important to live a lifestyle of Repentance!  The need to walk filled with an anointing of the Holy Ghost on a daily basis!  Teaching the true understanding of what a disciple does ... to carry their cross daily ... to be a living sacrifice to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

If a doctrine hinders that ... I'm going to call it out ... and won't stop doing so!  In the past, we had really solid posters that did so ... however, it seems that many have left for whatever reason.  So I'll take up the issue ... and continue to teach the entire WORD of GOD ... only the Word of God can recover someone in error!

Well said George. Thank you.

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Heaven_Bound said:

I know what the Scripture states.

 

I am merely pointing out how the 1,000 year Reign of Christ is explained in the BIBLE.   It says we who have been risen from the grave, we who have been caught up will change in a Twinkling of an Eye from corrupt bodies to Immortal bodies.   Then it explains we will Reign along side with Christ Yeshua.   But nowhere does it say when we Reign with Yeshua, we are reigning along side with the Father.   

Why is that important?

Because as of this Moment since Yeshua has ascended He has been with the Father.   And since He Reigns without the the Father being physically present during the 1,000 years, He cannot be Reigning what we know as the Mill Reign [now] because we are not Reigning with Him + the Father is still physically present with Yeshua.

I like your post but I cannot support it. 

[kwikphilly]

5 hours ago, George said:

In Israel, there are VERY FEW of US that are doing the work of evangelizing!  There are roughly a total of 15,000 Jewish believers in the land.  For those of us that are fighting for the salvation of Israel ... as well as my Palestinian pastor friends that are fighting for the salvation of Ishamael ... the opposition that we all can deal with is the Orthodox Jews and the Muslims!  You EXPECT it!  However, the crazy opposition that we face are actually from believers!  So you have this camp of preterist and replacement that come from all over the world ... go to "Christ at the Checkpoint" and spew antisemitism and Israel is not special in the sight of God.   All the famed preterist preachers go there, along with a host of preachers most people would never associate with! 

They hinder NOT only our EFFORTS in Israel, but call my Palestinian brothers aiding the "zionists" because they understand God has a plan for Israel and the Jewish people!  The replacement camp with the Palestinian circles vilifies my friends!  Many of my friends have been shot, their churches burned ... and yet, those who teach hatred toward Israel are protected by the Muslims in the territories.   Ever wonder why there is ONE so called "evangelical' church in the entire Gaza Strip?  What happened to all my evangelical friends?  Take a guess!

Then you have the host of "Christian Zionist" who support the nation state of Israel ... but literally finance the anti-missionaries that are actively paid to attack us!  The orthodox DO NOT WORK ... they are paid by the gov't to have kids and study torah... and their side income is from anti-missionary groups ... and a LOT of those funds come from "Christian" Zionist organizations!  This is why I have a REAL issue with Dual covenant theology!

If anyone is claiming to be a organization for Israel ... and NO WHERE on their MANDATES is the need for Israel's salvation -- THEY ARE NOT FOR ISRAEL!  I'm sorry -- our KING needs to be the center of whatever we do -- and His message our core message!  They literally prostitute Israel for their own benefit citing passages in the Old Testament ... I will bless thee ... and miss the very FIRST commandment given by Jesus ... Go forth and make disciples ... Paul's message, to the Jew FIRST and also to the GREEK!

So any group that is actively trying to HINDER my efforts in sharing the gospel ... I will stand up to ... and face it head on!   

The reality most of these camps from which these bad doctrines come from are DEAD CHURCHES!  They haven't had a move of God in so long because it's without POWER!   Most of these proponents come from dead Methodist, Presbyterian, Orthodox branches of Christianity ... 

If someone wonders why those of us get attacks from all sides ... its' because I teach people the need to REPENT and why it's important to live a lifestyle of Repentance!  The need to walk filled with an anointing of the Holy Ghost on a daily basis!  Teaching the true understanding of what a disciple does ... to carry their cross daily ... to be a living sacrifice to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

If a doctrine hinders that ... I'm going to call it out ... and won't stop doing so!  In the past, we had really solid posters that did so ... however, it seems that many have left for whatever reason.  So I'll take up the issue ... and continue to teach the entire WORD of GOD ... only the Word of God can recover someone in error!

Blessings George...

 I was very happy to read what you said and for me personally I received confirmation that Ive asked & prayed for..... Glory to God Most High!

 Ive always sent contributions to support " Christians for Israel" organizations( I wont name them, probably dont have to after what you said, lol) Anyway, I never gave it much thought which is a huge mistake but pretty recently I started to realize something was terribly wrong with supporting organizations that are advertising all these physical needs & misleading Christians into supporting Jewish customs, traditions and remaining bound by Mosaic Law..... How could " I" a Christian be duped into donating to such a tragic scam!!!???Over the past year Ive crossed them off my list one by one and another solicits me in their place! They are peddling Scripture for profit, its deplorable

 Now youve exposed them for what they are & in more depth than I even imagined..... I want to Bless Israel George, please email me Worthy org info for donating real Christian Ministrys for Isreal.... I dont do anything online so snail mail addresses please

Thank you for this!!!

With love in Christ, Kwik

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

 

And we are talking about when we Reign with Him!

The FATHER is not around.

Right now, it is Christ and the Father.

So we are not Reigning with just Him nor have we since His Ascension.

 

This passage below is in context of the resurrection of the dead, and the end of the world, AT THE COMING OF CHRIST.  It shows He is reigning now and will deliver the kingdom back to the Father at His coming, becoming once more subject to the Father:

1Co 15:22-29

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

This below clearly says Christ will judge the living and the dead AT HIS APPEARING.  When He comes it is judgment day for EVERY SOUL, so how can there be any "survivors" of God's individual judgment of every unsaved soul to "live on" into a future millennial kingdom?  It's at His coming that He roots out of His kingdom all the wicked and casts them into the lake of fire.  A quick work will the Lord make on the earth, not a protracted 1000 year work.

2 Tim 4:1...who shall JUDGE the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING and His kingdom.

The 2 Peter 3 scriptures are all about the promise of His coming and what takes place then.....which agree with all the above as well.  It is explicitly written that the "1000 years is as a day" is talking about the time of His longsuffering not willing that any should perish....the age of GRACE which we are in now, in which the door is still open for souls to be saved before the judgment at His coming. 

 

 

[Alive]

Other than perhaps a few minor indicators of anti semitism over a couple years and more, I am not aware of anti semite members. I have more than likely read far more of the forum in this time than any other, which had given me an extensive sense of the lay of the land.

There have been several members that push lawkeeping beyond wnat is proper and two or three who have used much hebrew in posts, making it difficult to understand, but no anti semite reaction resulting.

I am grieved by the implication and its devisiveness. As worthy as this may sound to some and there is some merit, perhaps…..ultimately, it drives a wedge between brethren.

Christ at the Checkpoint? Do you refer to Bethlehem Bible College?

[Heleadethme]

8 hours ago, George said:

So any group that is actively trying to HINDER my efforts in sharing the gospel ... I will stand up to ... and face it head on!   

The reality most of these camps from which these bad doctrines come from are DEAD CHURCHES!  They haven't had a move of God in so long because it's without POWER!   Most of these proponents come from dead Methodist, Presbyterian, Orthodox branches of Christianity ... 

If someone wonders why those of us get attacks from all sides ... its' because I teach people the need to REPENT and why it's important to live a lifestyle of Repentance!  The need to walk filled with an anointing of the Holy Ghost on a daily basis!  Teaching the true understanding of what a disciple does ... to carry their cross daily ... to be a living sacrifice to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords!

If a doctrine hinders that ... I'm going to call it out ... and won't stop doing so!  In the past, we had really solid posters that did so ... however, it seems that many have left for whatever reason.  So I'll take up the issue ... and continue to teach the entire WORD of GOD ... only the Word of God can recover someone in error!

Praise the Lord for spreading the gospel there brother and for what you endure for His sake.  But we have to acknowledge there are extremes in all camps.....the devil is always trying to confuse and muddy the waters....people all too often take the things of God and wield them in their flesh, so to speak.  

My concern with Jewish roots is the extreme in that camp of idolizing Israel and all things Jewish, thinking that Jews are saved in the old covenant and don't need the gospel, and trying to Judaize the church into law-keeping.  Those ones are opposing the sharing the gospel with Israel too.

It's such a shame for so-called Christians to use any doctrine and twist it as an excuse for their own anti-semitism.

[Alive]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

 

This passage below is in context of the resurrection of the dead, and the end of the world, AT THE COMING OF CHRIST.  It shows He is reigning now and will deliver the kingdom back to the Father at His coming, becoming once more subject to the Father:

1Co 15:22-29

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

This below clearly says Christ will judge the living and the dead AT HIS APPEARING.  When He comes it is judgment day for EVERY SOUL, so how can there be any "survivors" of God's individual judgment of every unsaved soul to "live on" into a future millennial kingdom?  It's at His coming that He roots out of His kingdom all the wicked and casts them into the lake of fire.  A quick work will the Lord make on the earth, not a protracted 1000 year work.

2 Tim 4:1...who shall JUDGE the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING and His kingdom.

The 2 Peter 3 scriptures are all about the promise of His coming and what takes place then.....which agree with all the above as well.  It is explicitly written that the "1000 years is as a day" is talking about the time of His longsuffering not willing that any should perish....the age of GRACE which we are in now, in which the door is still open for souls to be saved before the judgment at His coming. 

 

 

Well done…I agree as I have opined. I see no 1000 year gap. 

[B-B]

Some folks feel God has specifically called them to reach JW"s, for others it's the Mormons, for others it's Muslims, for others it's the Chinese, for others, it's folks in the Middle East - the 'secret' Believers. Whatever God has called you to do, do it well. But let's not place burdens on others.

As Jesus said in Matthew 28

18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, 

.....whoever God is calling you to reach....do your best to reach them. You will receive your reward from the Lord, if there are any for you to receive.

(However, If we are constantly letting the world and it's dog know about all of our good works, we've already received our 'reward').

Edited April 18, 2022 by B-B