"My" New Church Being Destroyed by Liberal Politics

[AnOrangeCat]

10 hours ago, TJGospels said:

Has anyone encountered anything like this? I am beyond disappointed. 

Sort of. I've visited a lot of Christian forums on the internet. Some of the ones on Reddit have espoused a lot of ideas that are so far removed from Christianity it's a little horrifying. I've noticed a few common elements between them. Information control is prominent. They don't allow criticism of their beliefs and you have to walk on eggshells just to do so much as suggest they might not be in the right. Another thing is that much of the discussion that occurs on them is about affirming certain sins. What you end up with is a big echo chamber that emboldens people who might otherwise feel ashamed and question their position.

[B-B]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Confrontation is ABSOLUTELY necessary. Only cults use group coercion to push views not biblical and punish those who disagree.

I agree....and it is loving and godly to use assertive methods when needing to confront another. 

(Unfortunately, folks who tend or prefer to avoid confrontation, can end up using passive aggressive methods to attack/target others).

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by B-B

[Ray12614]

10 hours ago, TJGospels said:

Most of the pastors are pro

-femnism

-lgbtq+

-abortion

-black lives matter

etc.

The two pastors I respect are not, but most of the rest of the pastors are. They have less sway for now, but who knows for how long. 

Then notify the senior pastor telling him why you are leaving, and then leave.

That church has no future unless basic Christian doctrine is preached and taught in every group, not just the main church settings.

Ray . . . 

[bropro]

13 hours ago, TJGospels said:

Most of the pastors are pro

-femnism

-lgbtq+

-abortion

-black lives matter

etc.

The two pastors I respect are not, but most of the rest of the pastors are. They have less sway for now, but who knows for how long. 

Matthew 18:15-17 (KJV)
¹⁵  Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
¹⁶  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
¹⁷  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 

The above passage of scripture provides the Lord’s way in which to address such issues. If we are offended by what is being taught in a church by it’s leaders (and what you shared is reason to be offended), the process that Jesus gives is designed by Him to bring a person/s to the realization of his/their offence so that he/they may make things right and redeem himself/themselves. The whole idea of this process is to restore doctrinal purity to the church, and to redeem/restore a brother/sister who has erred from the truth. Confronting someone concerning their sin is never a pleasant task, but a needful one. Many years ago there was a man in our church that was living with a woman in the church. She wanted him to move out, but he was resisting her. I had the unpleasant task of confronting him concerning his sin, and what the Lord and the church expected him to do. I won’t go into all the details of that conversation, but he listened to what I said, and came to me that Sunday at church and told me he had moved out and broke it off with the woman. He renewed his walk with the Lord and became a worker in the church, marrying a woman some time later.

 That unpleasant task served as a wake-up call for this brother, and a reminder to those who may have known about it in the church, as to what we as a body of believers stand for. This brother may have been lost forever if the church had not responded to his need to be corrected.

Not all confrontations play out this way. Those who refuse to turn from their sin after going through all the steps in the process Jesus laid down in Matt. 18, will be removed from membership in order to maintain Christ’s integrity.

If you choose to act on Matt. 18 and the leadership does nothing to correct the situation, that would be the time to remove yourself from that church. There is the hope, however, that when you follow this process, that the issues will be addressed and taken care of in the right manner, restoring order in the church. I hope this helps in some way. Have a blessed day.

 

Gary

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by bropro

[TJGospels]

7 hours ago, Starise said:

One mission of the church is to preach the word. Any leader who fails to do this has failed at the most basic level. Confrontation is ABSOLUTELY necessary. Only cults use group coercion to push views not biblical and punish those who disagree.

If the denomination itself is already invaded by those kinds of thinkers at the top levels, what's the point in staying there? I mean if you support the church your money goes to the top to help support their ideas and causes.

Thank you for your support. I messaged one of the pastors I have some respect for at this church. I do not expect much. The church leadership has backed down on many key issues before and I expect more of the same.

Sadly, as I have explained prior, they are actually noticeably better at challenging injustice in our local area, which is not saying much at all. This is the deplorable state of affairs where churches are willing to go along with intolerable actions by government out of fear and laziness. 

[TJGospels]

4 hours ago, bropro said:

Matthew 18:15-17 (KJV)
¹⁵  Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
¹⁶  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
¹⁷  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 If you choose to act on Matt. 18 and the leadership does nothing to correct the situation, that would be the time to remove yourself from that church. There is the hope, however, that when you follow this process, that the issues will be addressed and taken care of in the right manner, restoring order in the church. I hope this helps in some way. Have a blessed day.

 

Gary

 

I appreciate this detailed and sound set of guidelines on how to proceed.

I was thinking of simply letting it go and moving on to a new church asap. 

I am familiar enough with this and with other local churches to know that there is a 100% chance that senior leadership will side with the offending staff member in spirit, and 99.9% they will side with her in practice. 

The churches around here seem incapable of accepting feedback, and the more important the issue, the less likely they are to listen. 

In the .1% chance that they accept responsibility and agree to correct the problems, they will almost certainly resent me for it and keep me at arm's length from here on out labeling me a "troublemaker."

Edited April 15, 2022 by TJGospels

[tim_from_pa]

22 hours ago, TJGospels said:

This has been tentatively speaking, my primary church for a little under a year. It had always been a great medium sized church prior to 2020 but everything went bonkers and this church went sideways very quickly like most in our very liberal state. 

Things have been "fine" more or less since 2021 with many staff and church members reaching out to me to make me feel as welcome as possible, given the circumstances. Likewise, I've tried my best to be a good citizen, and also helping out with modest but regular donations.

For better or worse, the church has encouraged smaller group participation and with a great deal of reluctance, I've dipped my feet in and holy smokes the church staff is disturbingly liberal and dogmatic. In the smaller group discussions in particular, led by some of the lower level staff, it has been nothing but liberal dogma and indoctrination with severe censorship of those expressing non-orthodoxy. The bigger discussion groups led by actual pastors have been run much more smoothly.

I have made it known that I am going to speak my mind and criticize these bizarre, anti-christian liberal positions whenever possible. The lower level staff are getting very nervous as they are attempting to maintain a polite facade while trying to shut down anyone who disagrees with them. 

Sometimes, other low level staff walk by or even sit-in and seem disturbed that ANYONE dare disagree with a fellow staff member and they are being very, very intimidating in their body language. 

I think a lot of people would be surprised (maybe not?) to see how hostile church staff can become when a lowly church member dares to disagree with them. 

I find the entire situation laughable, pathetic yet more than vaguely menacing. I am really worried that given the liberal politics of my state, I won't be able to find any better, and am likely to encounter much worse. 
I could take a time out at this point but that sounds boring. I could seek out alternative churches but they are likely to be at least as liberal if not more so. I am still shocked at how power hungry low level church staff are and how quickly they will resort to open intimidation when challenged.

Has anyone encountered anything like this? I am beyond disappointed. 

Yes, I encountered this and I have news for you.  Your church was not "all right" before 2020.  This whole mess has been festering for some time...  a long time.  You apparently did not have the discernment to see that ahead of time, and I'm sure many Christians ran into the same problem.  2020 just brought out the junk to the surface.  Years and years ago I taught prophecy trying to prepare the people for end times.  I distinctly remember seeing a certain sign back in the mid-90's.  Some here at this forum are not even that old.  Then later these days people act like "what happened"? and they are taken by surprise seeing the sudden changes.  I somewhat sarcastically ask where they been all the time I was saying this a long time ago?  A  bit irritating to say the least. And you want to know something even more amazing?  There's people who STILL do not see what's all going on and actually think things will return to "normal".  I have no solution for you immediately other than to make sure you know the bible inside and out and pray for fellow Christians to associate with, obviously not the church you are at now. One of my long ago predictions was the rise of the house church.  You may have to end up with such fellowship especially in this "cancel culture".

[Ani Tefillah]

7 hours ago, tim_from_pa said:

Yes, I encountered this and I have news for you.  Your church was not "all right" before 2020.  This whole mess has been festering for some time...  a long time.  You apparently did not have the discernment to see that ahead of time, and I'm sure many Christians ran into the same problem.  2020 just brought out the junk to the surface.  Years and years ago I taught prophecy trying to prepare the people for end times.  I distinctly remember seeing a certain sign back in the mid-90's.  Some here at this forum are not even that old.  Then later these days people act like "what happened"? and they are taken by surprise seeing the sudden changes.  I somewhat sarcastically ask where they been all the time I was saying this a long time ago?  A  bit irritating to say the least. And you want to know something even more amazing?  There's people who STILL do not see what's all going on and actually think things will return to "normal".  I have no solution for you immediately other than to make sure you know the bible inside and out and pray for fellow Christians to associate with, obviously not the church you are at now. One of my long ago predictions was the rise of the house church.  You may have to end up with such fellowship especially in this "cancel culture".

Amen and Amen! 

Can you please tell me where you have put your predictions in here? I've only been here since February. Thanks! 

[TJGospels]

Thank you all for your encouragement in seeking a new church, if things are not rectified at my "current" church.

I have checked on literally every church within an hour's drive and they are all the same: cookie cutter formula churches if you will.

All of them support all of the same liberal causes, and parrot all of the media talking points--currently Ukraine, corona for the past two years, Black Lives Matter here and there, and most are rapidly promoting female pastors. 

It's almost as if every church is controlled by a central secular authority dictating policy across the board. It is almost impossible to reach the conclusion that individual churches are acting freely of their own accord. There is clearly some degree of coordination and it is not minor. 

All of these institutions are operating in lock step: schools, churches, media, government. All are following the same party line. Whether we realize it or not, there is now massive centralized control and churches are but one facet of this globally organized and coordinated state of affairs. 

Sadly, it will not matter one iota if/when I switch churches. It will be like choosing between McDonald's and Burger King. Or more accurately,  like choosing between different locations of one chain.

Churches are now basically like fast food restaurants: homogenized, formulaic, customer friendly. Just don't look too closely at the ingredients!

[TJGospels]

On 4/15/2022 at 6:17 AM, Ray12614 said:

Then notify the senior pastor telling him why you are leaving, and then leave.

That church has no future unless basic Christian doctrine is preached and taught in every group, not just the main church settings.

Ray . . . 

What's interesting is that the pastor does not list a phone number or email. The only way to contact him is in person after service. I found it telling that he completely ignored one of the volunteers who thanked him for his sermon. This volunteer is highly active and well liked by everyone in the church as far as I can tell.

The pastor continued walking, and barely acknowledged him. I thought it was rather tactless, borderline insulting. He barely broke his pace, looked over his shoulder (may or may not have nodded), and kept on walking. 

Pre 2020, he used to make himself readily available after service, waiting in the lobby for anyone who wanted to talk. Now, even a highly active and well liked volunteer can barely get a word in edge wise. 

Everyone seems to be on edge: the lead pastor, the assistant pastors, and the congregation. The lead pastor was dismayed at one point because EVERYONE in attendance was seated in the back third of the auditorium! There is some palpable level of fear and intimidation there.

Sometimes, I wonder why people even bother. The pastors are picking up a paycheck, but why are people attending when they are afraid of the pastor?