The Three Parables Of Matthew 25

[not an echo]

Hello all,

In Matthew 25, we have the only account of three parables that Jesus spoke at the time of His Olivet Discourse---parables which relate to the last days.  These are commonly referred to as the Parable of the Ten Virgins, the Parable of the Talents, and the Parable of the Sheep and Goats.  Following are some of the thoughts that I have had concerning these...

THE PARABLE OF THE TEN VIRGINS

In this parable, Jesus likens the workings of the Kingdom of Heaven (as this spiritual dimension of God overlaps our world) to a story of ten virgins that are going forth with their lamps to meet the bridegroom.  Five are said to be wise and five are said to be foolish.  The reason that five are said to be foolish has to do with their not having enough oil for their lamps, meaning, they were not as prepared as they thought they were to meet the bridegroom---who could come at any time.  Since all are virgins, it could be supposed that they were morally upright.  But, being morally upright does not make one prepared or saved.  However, five were prepared and were able to go in with the bridegroom to the marriage, after which "the door was shut" (vs. 10).  Later, the five foolish virgins arrive at the door, but are not allowed to enter.  Rather, the bridegroom replies to them, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" (vs. 12).  With this, Jesus expresses the thrust of His parable with these words:  "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (vs. 13).

Whatever may be believed about the minute details of this parable, it cannot be allowed to nullify the main thrust, which Jesus expresses in verse 13.  The main thrust is the importance of being at all times watchful and ready for His coming, especially in consideration of one's not knowing when this might be.  This certainly bespeaks the imminency of Christ's return.  In harmony with the rest of Jesus' Olivet Discourse (as expounded further in The Revelation), I see Christ's Second Advent (Rev. 19:11-21;  Matt. 24:26-28) being preceded by a sign appearance and the gathering of the Church (Rev. 6:14-16;  Matt. 24:30-31), and it is to the event of the latter that I believe this parable speaks.  Relating to the five foolish virgins, it is not hard to imagine that the day the Church is raptured, there will be those who felt they were ready, who will suddenly be in a scramble, making their appeals skyward to be allowed to enter Heaven.  There are other reasons to believe that this parable relates to the rapture, but presently, I would ask the reader to carefully consider the following...

In verse 13 of this parable, Jesus essentially repeats what He had said just a few moments earlier in His discourse concerning the importance of being ready for His return (Matt. 24:42).  At that time, He illustrated this with words concerning the days of Noah (Matt. 24:36-39).  We know that in Noah's day, everyone was going about their normal activities without any regard for his message of pending judgment.  But, before any sign that the flood was about to begin, God called Noah and his family to enter into the ark (Gen. 7:1-4ff).  In Jesus' parable of the ten virgins, if He was reinforcing the importance of being prepared for His Second Advent (instead of His sign appearance and the rapture), this would be relative to a time after much of God's judgment had already begun.  This would be tantamount to God's calling Noah and his family to enter into the ark after the flood waters were already upon the earth.  We know that just prior to Christ's Second Advent, the seven angels will have begun to pour out the vials of God's wrath upon the earth (Rev. 16).  This is not to mention everything else that will have taken place up to that time.  Factoring all of this in, I submit that none will be going about any normal activity at that time.  Also, because of the timelines that are given relating to Daniel's 70th Week, the day of Christ's Second Advent will be able to be calculated---and will be.  This is evidenced by what John wrote in Revelation 19:19, "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army."  On the other hand, we know that presently, the unsaved (including unsaved religious people) are indeed going about their normal activities, without any regard for the Church's message of pending judgment.  But, at any time, the trumpet may sound.  "Watch therefore..."

THE PARABLE OF THE TALENTS

In this parable, Jesus likens the workings of the Kingdom of Heaven to that of a man who travels into a far country, who calls his servants unto him and imparts to them "his goods" (vs. 14).  He divides his goods among them, imparting to one five portions, to another two, and to another one, after which he takes his journey.  Then it is shown what each servant does with what is given to him and the reckoning that takes place upon their master's return.  At the time of the reckoning we see that two of the servants have performed well and are praised and blessed accordingly.  But, the last servant has done evil and is rebuked and punished.

The thrust of this parable concerns what we do with what the Lord imparts to us and the importance of realizing that there is coming a day of reckoning for us, whether we be saved or unsaved.  It is easy to discern that the "man travelling into a far country" would point to Christ.  His "goods" or "talents" would represent substance of great worth, which I think of as being spiritual substance, which is of the greatest worth.  I can also see the reckoning with the first two servants paralleling the Judgment Seat of Christ, which (as is commonly believed) can happen in Heaven at some time after the rapture and will be for God's children.  As is also commonly believed, this will be a judgment to determine rewards.  But what about the last servant?  As there are both true and false prophets, there are both good and evil servants, and this last servant is in the category of the latter.  He is referred to by his master as being both "wicked and slothful" (vs. 26) and is consigned to be cast "into outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (vs. 30).  This certainly has overtones of Hell (Matt. 13:42, 22:13, 24:51;  II Pet. 2:17;  and Jude 6).

Something further that may need to be reinforced concerning this parable and its relation to the rapture and the Judgment Seat of Christ is this:  Because of all the destruction that will take place on the day of the rapture---which I believe happens with the opening of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:12-17)---an untold multitude of unsaved people will no doubt lose their lives at that time as well.  Those who die at that time will not be in the mix of the just raptured Christians as they stand in the presence of God, nor will they have part in the event of the Judgment Seat of Christ.  Rather, they will be immediately separated to Hell, or Hades, which would parallel the case of the last servant in the parable and also the rich man of Luke 16:19-31.  This would be pending that time further in their future (after Christ's Millennial Reign) when they will be judged at the Last Judgment, to be finally cast into the Lake of Fire, or Gehenna (Rev. 20:11-15).

THE PARABLE OF THE SHEEP AND GOATS

In this parable, Jesus speaks about the fact and the time of His return to set up His Millennial Kingdom and of a judgment that will take place at that time.  At this judgment, all the "nations" of people (or Gentiles) will be gathered before Him, and He will "separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats" (vs. 32).  When all the sheep are to His right hand and all the goats are to His left, He will begin His decree.  In real time, those to His right He blesses and grants the privilege of being a part of His Millennial Kingdom and tells them that this is because of the various ways they had cared for Him.  They ask when it was that they had cared for Him so, and He explains that when they had cared for His brethren (the Jews and possibly any Daniel's 70th Week overcomers), they had cared for Him.  Then He turns to those to His left and banishes them to everlasting fire, explaining that this is because of the various ways they had not cared for Him.  When these ask when it was that they had not so cared for Him, He explains that when they had not cared for His brethren, they had not cared for Him.

It is understandable how that some might believe that this parable conveys that one's judgment is based upon works or how one treats others.  But, genuine good will towards others springs from something deeper than such works and is merely reflective of what is within one's heart.  And, no one can judge a heart like Jesus Christ.  Also, it needs to be remembered that the first and great commandment does not concern how we love others---it concerns our love for God.  But, as someone has rightly said, "When we love God the most, we can love others more."  This is because God is love (I Jn. 4:16).

I would like to make it clear that I do not believe the judgment of this parable to be the Last Judgment spoken of in Revelation 20:11-15.  Rather, I believe this judgment will occur soon after Christ's Second Advent, at the time of the beginning of His thousand year reign.  This means that this judgment will occur just after the end of Daniel's 70th Week.  We know that those during that time who by faith choose to die rather than take the mark of the beast will be saved as a result of being overcomers (compare Rev. 12:11, 15:2-4, and 20:4 with I Jn. 5:4-5).  Who then are those who are alluded to as the sheep and goats?  In my concept of the seven year period of Daniel's 70th Week, I can see there being some who will be able to flee and survive for a time, or some in remote areas who will be able to evade being found.  No doubt, there will be those who will be able to help others who are fleeing and those who will help the Jews when they flee (e.g., Matt. 24:15-20ff;  Lk. 21:20-24;  and Rev. 12:14-17).  Those who by faith help and minister to others who are fleeing (and especially the Jews) are the sheep of the parable.  Those who care for none but themselves are the goats of the parable.  These would not have even cared for Christ (Matt. 25:44-45).  They, as the "wicked and slothful servant" in the previous parable, will likewise be separated to Hell (Hades) immediately, to be ultimately cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna), as revealed in Revelation 20:11-15 (esp. vss. 13-14).

According to my understanding---and in a nutshell---this is how the parables of Matthew 25 relate to the last days:

#1---The first parable relates to the time of Christ's coming for the Church.

#2---The second parable relates to the time of the Judgment Seat of Christ.

#3---The third parable relates to the time of Christ's Millennial Reign.   

Finally, my understanding of the above is part of A Totally Different Pre-Daniel's 70 Week Rapture Interpretation that I have.  Here is a link to my master thread by this same title (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/253935-a-totally-different-pre-daniels-70th-week-rapture-interpretation/).  In the second post of that thread, I keep a running list of other threads that pertain to my different interpretation.

Edited February 4, 2023 by not an echo

[WilliamL]

On 4/17/2022 at 9:47 PM, not an echo said:

Since all are virgins, it could be supposed that they were morally upright.

I think a more defined metaphorical use of "virgin" is: someone who has not been corrupted by false religious belief.

However, just because someone has believed the true faith does not necessarily mean that they have been diligent in practicing it.

[AdHoc]

On 4/18/2022 at 5:47 AM, not an echo said:

Hello all,

In Matthew 25, we have the only account of three parables that Jesus spoke at the time of His Olivet Discourse---parables which relate to the last days.  These are commonly referred to as the Parable of the Ten Virgins, the Parable of the Talents, and the Parable of the Sheep and Goats.  Following are some of the thoughts that I have had concerning these...

THE PARABLE OF THE TEN VIRGINS

In this parable, Jesus likens the workings of the Kingdom of Heaven (as this spiritual dimension of God overlaps our world) to a story of ten virgins that are going forth with their lamps to meet the bridegroom.  Five are said to be wise and five are said to be foolish.  The reason that five are said to be foolish has to do with their not having enough oil for their lamps, meaning, they were not as prepared as they thought they were to meet the bridegroom---who could come at any time.  Since all are virgins, it could be supposed that they were morally upright.  But, being morally upright does not make one prepared or saved.  However, five were prepared and were able to go in with the bridegroom to the marriage, after which "the door was shut" (vs. 10).  Later, the five foolish virgins arrive at the door, but are not allowed to enter.  Rather, the bridegroom replies to them, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" (vs. 12).  With this, Jesus expresses the thrust of His parable with these words:  "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (vs. 13).

Whatever may be believed about the minute details of this parable, it cannot be allowed to nullify the main thrust, which Jesus expresses in verse 13.  The main thrust is the importance of being at all times watchful and ready for His coming, especially in consideration of one's not knowing when this might be.  This certainly bespeaks the imminency of Christ's return.  In harmony with the rest of Jesus' Olivet Discourse (as expounded further in The Revelation), I see Christ's Second Coming (Rev. 19:11-21;  Matt. 24:26-28) being preceded by a sign appearance and the gathering of the Church (Rev. 6:14-16;  Matt. 24:30-31), and it is to the event of the latter that I believe this parable speaks.  Relating to the five foolish virgins, it is not hard to imagine that the day the Church is raptured, there will be those who felt they were ready, who will suddenly be in a scramble, making their appeals skyward to be allowed to enter Heaven.  There are other reasons to believe that this parable relates to the rapture, but presently, I would ask the reader to carefully consider the following...

In verse 13 of this parable, Jesus essentially repeats what He had said just a few moments earlier in His discourse concerning the importance of being ready for His return (Matt. 24:42).  At that time, He illustrated this with words concerning the days of Noah (Matt. 24:36-39).  We know that in Noah's day, everyone was going about their normal activities without any regard for his message of pending judgment.  But, before any sign that the flood was about to begin, God called Noah and his family to enter into the ark (Gen. 7:1-4ff).  In Jesus' parable of the ten virgins, if He was reinforcing the importance of being prepared for His Second Coming (instead of His sign appearance and the rapture), this would be relative to a time after much of God's judgment had already begun.  This would be tantamount to God's calling Noah and his family to enter into the ark after the flood waters were already upon the earth.  We know that just prior to Christ's Second Coming, the seven angels will have begun to pour out the vials of God's wrath upon the earth (Rev. 16).  This is not to mention everything else that will have taken place up to that time.  Factoring all of this in, I submit that none will be going about any normal activity at that time.  Also, because of the timelines that are given relating to Daniel's 70th Week, the day of Christ's Second Coming will be able to be calculated---and will be.  This is evidenced by what John wrote in Revelation 19:19, "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army."  On the other hand, we know that presently, the unsaved (including unsaved religious people) are indeed going about their normal activities, without any regard for the Church's message of pending judgment.  But, at any time, the trumpet may sound.  "Watch therefore..."

THE PARABLE OF THE TALENTS

In this parable, Jesus likens the workings of the Kingdom of Heaven to that of a man who travels into a far country, who calls his servants unto him and imparts to them "his goods" (vs. 14).  He divides his goods among them, imparting to one five portions, to another two, and to another one, after which he takes his journey.  Then it is shown what each servant does with what is given to him and the reckoning that takes place upon their master's return.  At the time of the reckoning we see that two of the servants have performed well and are praised and blessed accordingly.  But, the last servant has done evil and is rebuked and punished.

The thrust of this parable concerns what we do with what the Lord imparts to us and the importance of realizing that there is coming a day of reckoning for us, whether we be saved or unsaved.  It is easy to discern that the "man travelling into a far country" would point to Christ.  His "goods" or "talents" would represent substance of great worth, which I think of as being spiritual substance, which is of the greatest worth.  I can also see the reckoning with the first two servants paralleling the Judgment Seat of Christ, which (as is commonly believed) can happen in Heaven at some time after the rapture and will be for God's children.  As is also commonly believed, this will be a judgment to determine rewards.  But what about the last servant?  As there are both true and false prophets, there are both good and evil servants, and this last servant is in the category of the latter.  He is referred to by his master as being both "wicked and slothful" (vs. 26) and is consigned to be cast "into outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (vs. 30).  This certainly has overtones of Hell (Matt. 13:42, 22:13, 24:51;  II Pet. 2:17;  and Jude 6).

Something further that may need to be reinforced concerning this parable and its relation to the rapture and the Judgment Seat of Christ is this:  Because of all the destruction that will take place on the day of the rapture---which I believe happens with the opening of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:12-17)---an untold multitude of unsaved people will no doubt lose their lives at that time as well.  Those who die at that time will not be in the mix of the just raptured Christians as they stand in the presence of God, nor will they have part in the event of the Judgment Seat of Christ.  Rather, they will be immediately separated to Hell, or Hades, which would parallel the case of the last servant in the parable and also the rich man of Luke 16:19-31.  This would be pending that time further in their future (after Christ's Millennial Reign) when they will be judged at the Last Judgment, to be finally cast into the Lake of Fire, or Gehenna (Rev. 20:11-15).

THE PARABLE OF THE SHEEP AND GOATS

In this parable, Jesus speaks about the fact and the time of His return to set up His Millennial Kingdom and of a judgment that will take place at that time.  At this judgment, all the "nations" of people (or Gentiles) will be gathered before Him, and He will "separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats" (vs. 32).  When all the sheep are to His right hand and all the goats are to His left, He will begin His decree.  In real time, those to His right He blesses and grants the privilege of being a part of His Millennial Kingdom and tells them that this is because of the various ways they had cared for Him.  They ask when it was that they had cared for Him so, and He explains that when they had cared for His brethren (the Jews and possibly any Daniel's 70th Week overcomers), they had cared for Him.  Then He turns to those to His left and banishes them to everlasting fire, explaining that this is because of the various ways they had not cared for Him.  When these ask when it was that they had not so cared for Him, He explains that when they had not cared for His brethren, they had not cared for Him.

It is understandable how that some might believe that this parable conveys that one's judgment is based upon works or how one treats others.  But, genuine good will towards others springs from something deeper than such works and is merely reflective of what is within one's heart.  And, no one can judge a heart like Jesus Christ.  Also, it needs to be remembered that the first and great commandment does not concern how we love others---it concerns our love for God.  But, as someone has rightly said, "When we love God the most, we can love others more."  This is because God is love (I Jn. 4:16).

I would like to make it clear that I do not believe the judgment of this parable to be the Last Judgment spoken of in Revelation 20:11-15.  Rather, I believe this judgment will occur soon after Christ's Second Coming, at the time of the beginning of His thousand year reign.  This means that this judgment will occur just after the end of Daniel's 70th Week.  We know that those during that time who by faith choose to die rather than take the mark of the beast will be saved as a result of being overcomers (compare Rev. 12:11, 15:2-4, and 20:4 with I Jn. 5:4-5).  Who then are those who are alluded to as the sheep and goats?  In my concept of the seven year period of Daniel's 70th Week, I can see there being some who will be able to flee and survive for a time, or some in remote areas who will be able to evade being found.  No doubt, there will be those who will be able to help others who are fleeing and those who will help the Jews when they flee (e.g., Matt. 24:15-20ff;  Lk. 21:20-24;  and Rev. 12:14-17).  Those who by faith help and minister to others who are fleeing (and especially the Jews) are the sheep of the parable.  Those who care for none but themselves are the goats of the parable.  These would not have even cared for Christ (Matt. 25:44-45).  They, as the "wicked and slothful servant" in the previous parable, will likewise be separated to Hell (Hades) immediately, to be ultimately cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna), as revealed in Revelation 20:11-15 (esp. vss. 13-14).

According to my understanding---and in a nutshell---this is how the parables of Matthew 25 relate to the last days:

#1---The first parable relates to the time of Christ's coming for the Church.

#2---The second parable relates to the time of the Judgment Seat of Christ.

#3---The third parable relates to the time of Christ's Millennial Reign.   

Finally, my understanding of the above is part of A Totally Different Pre-Daniel's 70 Week Rapture Interpretation that I have.  Here is a link to my master thread by this same title (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/253935-a-totally-different-pre-daniels-70th-week-rapture-interpretation/).  In the second post of that thread, I keep a running list of other threads that pertain to my different interpretation.

I always admire those who take the time to make a full (or fuller) argument. Thank you for your contribution. You have surely given us things to think about. After due consideration, I've decide not to go from point to point, but to give my own abbreviated understanding of these three narratives.

The Lord Jesus is answering verse 3 of Chapter 24. It is a threefold question; (i) when shall these things be, (ii) what is the sign of your Coming, and (iii) what is the sign of the end of the age? From the evening of resurrection day, when our Lord breathed the Holy Spirit into His disciples, there were suddenly OUT OF TWO Peoples, a THIRD (Eph.2:15). (i) The Nation of Israel, (ii) The Nations, and (iii) the New Man - commonly called "the Church". And our Lord Jesus, in Matthew, predicts the fate of these three peoples in three distinct divisions. They are;
That which will befall the Jews starting with the Temple in verse 1 and ending with Israel being gathered from the "four winds" in verse 31. Only Israel was scattered and only Israel was scattered and collected from the "four winds" (Jer.49:36, Ezek.37:9)
That which will befall the Church from 24:32 to 25:31. Here, parables are used and the issue is the morality of "servants".
That which will befall those of "ALL Nations" or "Gentiles" who survive the Great Tribulation based on how they treated the Lord's People who passed through the Great Tribulation

The Ten Virgins
The parable presents us Virgins who are exactly the same in seven points and different in only one. (i) ALL in their lifetime had Lamps burning. (ii) All had oil in their Lamps. (iii) ALL are Virgins. (iv) ALL "went forth to meet he Groom" in their lifetime. (v) All slept because the Groom tarried. (vi) ALL were awakened at the same time. (vii) All went on a short journey to meet the Groom who seemed to be coming from the opposite direction. It is noteworthy that the Virgins never lost their status. Even the foolish were still called Virgins after their return with the required oil.

The single difference is in their disposition. The "foolish" Virgins are called that because they thought that the oil, NOT IN THEIR LAMPS, but in their VESSELS was FOR FREE. The Lamp of a person is their spirit (Pr.20:27) and oil is a type of the Holy Spirit keeping the Lampstand of the Tabernacle burning night and day. To be awakened at the same time shows that they belong to the same resurrection and this, at the Coming of the Groom. This makes then genuine Christians (1st Cor.15:23) for besides the lamps burning and having oil in their lamps, they all belong to the same resurrection and are judged on the same criteria.

The statement of our Lord and Groom, Jesus, is that He did not "know" them. the word in Greek does not mean intellectual knowledge. It means that he did not recognize them by sight. That is, they, as Fiancé, had not spent time in the Lord's presense so that He would know them by sight. Thus, ALL EVIDENCE point to the fact that the Virgins were ALL Christians, ALL joyfully seeking the Groom and ALL being resurrected together. The lesson of the parable is that an extra portion of the Holy Spirit must be PAID FOR IN THIS LIFE. From the other parables on the Kingdom of Heaven, this PRICE must be (i) denying the soul, and (ii) taking up a cross that puts the flesh to death when it is called for ("daily").

The Talents
In this parable, the same outcome is reached when the designation "servant" is studied. ALL were "servants". ALL were "the Lord's servants". The slothful servant is still called a "servant" after he is found wanting. In verse 24 he owns the Lord Jesus. In verse 26 it is "His Lord" and in verse 30 he is still a "servant" though in torment. The talents are all the same - "the goods of the Lords" and the duty of ALL the servants was to occupy themselves with these "gifts" to the profit of the Lord. They are all judged at the same time. All must be Christians since the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" are given to the "inspired" (1st Cor.12).

In Matthew 25 the issue is to be "faithful" when given a duty in the Church (Kingdom) and in Luke 19 the issue with the "pounds" was to be "diligent" with what you are entrusted with.

The "Throne of His Glory" (Sheep and the Goats)
From at least seven scriptures we are taught that some of the Church will pass through the Great Tribulation. 1. In Matthew 24 servants can be "LEFT" to the days like those of Noah. 2. In Luke 21:35-36 one must be "counted WORTHY" to miss the Tribulation spoken of when Christ comes. 3. In Philippians 3 the "Upward Call" is a "PRIZE" to be ATTAINED TO. 4. In Revelation 3:10 Christ keeps certain Overcomers from the hour of trial "BECAUSE" they did something. All these three scriptures IMPLY that not all Christians will miss the Great Tribulation.

5. In Revelation 7 the innumerable company who have washed their garments in Christ's blood and who welcome Him like a King with palm fronds came through the Great Tribulation. 6. In Revelation 12 a company who have the "testimony of Jesus Christ" must flee to a wilderness and be helped by the earth" for 1260 days of Tribulation. 7. In Revelation 13:7 the saints are "overcome" by the Beast, which could only happen if they were on earth. 8. In Revelation 18:4 there are Christians who belong to Commercial Babylon the Great.

Having established that there is much evidence to show that a great company of Christians will pass through the Great Tribulation, which is further supported by the "apostasy" of the seven Churches of Revelation, the question is; "How do they survive without the Mark of the Beast"? We have a hint in Revelation 12:16 - "the earth helped ... ". Since Revelation 20 shows us men beheaded for not taking the Mark of the Beast, we can justifiably assume that not all Gentiles will support the Beast. As in all democracies AND Monarchies, there is a contingent of "dissenters". It seems that they will help the threatened Christians with food and clothing.

Now, the basis for any dealing with a Christian (or Jew for that matter) is a Covenant made with Abraham 430 years before God gave the Law to Moses. In this Covenant, God PROMISES to bless anyone who blessed a seed of Abraham, and to curse anyone who curses a seed of Abraham (Gen.12:3). Those of the ALL Nations who survive the Great Tribulation will be gathered to Christ's Throne when He sets it up on earth after Armageddon, and judged on how they treated Christ's brethren during the Great Tribulation. They are called "the least" of His brethren because they were the slothful "servants" who must pass through the Great Tribulation, but they are still Christ's, and thus "seed of Abraham" (Gal.3:29).

Who would have thought that you could go to the Lake of Fire for a glass of water? See Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41

[not an echo]

On 4/19/2022 at 3:29 PM, WilliamL said:

On 4/17/2022 at 10:47 PM, not an echo said:

Since all are virgins, it could be supposed that they were morally upright.

I think a more defined metaphorical use of "virgin" is: someone who has not been corrupted by false religious belief.

However, just because someone has believed the true faith does not necessarily mean that they have been diligent in practicing it.

Worthy thoughts William

[not an echo]

On 4/19/2022 at 5:24 PM, AdHoc said:

On 4/17/2022 at 10:47 PM, not an echo said:

Hello all,

In Matthew 25, we have the only account of three parables that Jesus spoke at the time of His Olivet Discourse---parables which relate to the last days.  These are commonly referred to as the Parable of the Ten Virgins, the Parable of the Talents, and the Parable of the Sheep and Goats.  Following are some of the thoughts that I have had concerning these...

THE PARABLE OF THE TEN VIRGINS

In this parable, Jesus likens the workings of the Kingdom of Heaven (as this spiritual dimension of God overlaps our world) to a story of ten virgins that are going forth with their lamps to meet the bridegroom.  Five are said to be wise and five are said to be foolish.  The reason that five are said to be foolish has to do with their not having enough oil for their lamps, meaning, they were not as prepared as they thought they were to meet the bridegroom---who could come at any time.  Since all are virgins, it could be supposed that they were morally upright.  But, being morally upright does not make one prepared or saved.  However, five were prepared and were able to go in with the bridegroom to the marriage, after which "the door was shut" (vs. 10).  Later, the five foolish virgins arrive at the door, but are not allowed to enter.  Rather, the bridegroom replies to them, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" (vs. 12).  With this, Jesus expresses the thrust of His parable with these words:  "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (vs. 13).

Whatever may be believed about the minute details of this parable, it cannot be allowed to nullify the main thrust, which Jesus expresses in verse 13.  The main thrust is the importance of being at all times watchful and ready for His coming, especially in consideration of one's not knowing when this might be.  This certainly bespeaks the imminency of Christ's return.  In harmony with the rest of Jesus' Olivet Discourse (as expounded further in The Revelation), I see Christ's Second Coming (Rev. 19:11-21;  Matt. 24:26-28) being preceded by a sign appearance and the gathering of the Church (Rev. 6:14-16;  Matt. 24:30-31), and it is to the event of the latter that I believe this parable speaks.  Relating to the five foolish virgins, it is not hard to imagine that the day the Church is raptured, there will be those who felt they were ready, who will suddenly be in a scramble, making their appeals skyward to be allowed to enter Heaven.  There are other reasons to believe that this parable relates to the rapture, but presently, I would ask the reader to carefully consider the following...

In verse 13 of this parable, Jesus essentially repeats what He had said just a few moments earlier in His discourse concerning the importance of being ready for His return (Matt. 24:42).  At that time, He illustrated this with words concerning the days of Noah (Matt. 24:36-39).  We know that in Noah's day, everyone was going about their normal activities without any regard for his message of pending judgment.  But, before any sign that the flood was about to begin, God called Noah and his family to enter into the ark (Gen. 7:1-4ff).  In Jesus' parable of the ten virgins, if He was reinforcing the importance of being prepared for His Second Coming (instead of His sign appearance and the rapture), this would be relative to a time after much of God's judgment had already begun.  This would be tantamount to God's calling Noah and his family to enter into the ark after the flood waters were already upon the earth.  We know that just prior to Christ's Second Coming, the seven angels will have begun to pour out the vials of God's wrath upon the earth (Rev. 16).  This is not to mention everything else that will have taken place up to that time.  Factoring all of this in, I submit that none will be going about any normal activity at that time.  Also, because of the timelines that are given relating to Daniel's 70th Week, the day of Christ's Second Coming will be able to be calculated---and will be.  This is evidenced by what John wrote in Revelation 19:19, "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army."  On the other hand, we know that presently, the unsaved (including unsaved religious people) are indeed going about their normal activities, without any regard for the Church's message of pending judgment.  But, at any time, the trumpet may sound.  "Watch therefore..."

THE PARABLE OF THE TALENTS

In this parable, Jesus likens the workings of the Kingdom of Heaven to that of a man who travels into a far country, who calls his servants unto him and imparts to them "his goods" (vs. 14).  He divides his goods among them, imparting to one five portions, to another two, and to another one, after which he takes his journey.  Then it is shown what each servant does with what is given to him and the reckoning that takes place upon their master's return.  At the time of the reckoning we see that two of the servants have performed well and are praised and blessed accordingly.  But, the last servant has done evil and is rebuked and punished.

The thrust of this parable concerns what we do with what the Lord imparts to us and the importance of realizing that there is coming a day of reckoning for us, whether we be saved or unsaved.  It is easy to discern that the "man travelling into a far country" would point to Christ.  His "goods" or "talents" would represent substance of great worth, which I think of as being spiritual substance, which is of the greatest worth.  I can also see the reckoning with the first two servants paralleling the Judgment Seat of Christ, which (as is commonly believed) can happen in Heaven at some time after the rapture and will be for God's children.  As is also commonly believed, this will be a judgment to determine rewards.  But what about the last servant?  As there are both true and false prophets, there are both good and evil servants, and this last servant is in the category of the latter.  He is referred to by his master as being both "wicked and slothful" (vs. 26) and is consigned to be cast "into outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (vs. 30).  This certainly has overtones of Hell (Matt. 13:42, 22:13, 24:51;  II Pet. 2:17;  and Jude 6).

Something further that may need to be reinforced concerning this parable and its relation to the rapture and the Judgment Seat of Christ is this:  Because of all the destruction that will take place on the day of the rapture---which I believe happens with the opening of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:12-17)---an untold multitude of unsaved people will no doubt lose their lives at that time as well.  Those who die at that time will not be in the mix of the just raptured Christians as they stand in the presence of God, nor will they have part in the event of the Judgment Seat of Christ.  Rather, they will be immediately separated to Hell, or Hades, which would parallel the case of the last servant in the parable and also the rich man of Luke 16:19-31.  This would be pending that time further in their future (after Christ's Millennial Reign) when they will be judged at the Last Judgment, to be finally cast into the Lake of Fire, or Gehenna (Rev. 20:11-15).

THE PARABLE OF THE SHEEP AND GOATS

In this parable, Jesus speaks about the fact and the time of His return to set up His Millennial Kingdom and of a judgment that will take place at that time.  At this judgment, all the "nations" of people (or Gentiles) will be gathered before Him, and He will "separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats" (vs. 32).  When all the sheep are to His right hand and all the goats are to His left, He will begin His decree.  In real time, those to His right He blesses and grants the privilege of being a part of His Millennial Kingdom and tells them that this is because of the various ways they had cared for Him.  They ask when it was that they had cared for Him so, and He explains that when they had cared for His brethren (the Jews and possibly any Daniel's 70th Week overcomers), they had cared for Him.  Then He turns to those to His left and banishes them to everlasting fire, explaining that this is because of the various ways they had not cared for Him.  When these ask when it was that they had not so cared for Him, He explains that when they had not cared for His brethren, they had not cared for Him.

It is understandable how that some might believe that this parable conveys that one's judgment is based upon works or how one treats others.  But, genuine good will towards others springs from something deeper than such works and is merely reflective of what is within one's heart.  And, no one can judge a heart like Jesus Christ.  Also, it needs to be remembered that the first and great commandment does not concern how we love others---it concerns our love for God.  But, as someone has rightly said, "When we love God the most, we can love others more."  This is because God is love (I Jn. 4:16).

I would like to make it clear that I do not believe the judgment of this parable to be the Last Judgment spoken of in Revelation 20:11-15.  Rather, I believe this judgment will occur soon after Christ's Second Coming, at the time of the beginning of His thousand year reign.  This means that this judgment will occur just after the end of Daniel's 70th Week.  We know that those during that time who by faith choose to die rather than take the mark of the beast will be saved as a result of being overcomers (compare Rev. 12:11, 15:2-4, and 20:4 with I Jn. 5:4-5).  Who then are those who are alluded to as the sheep and goats?  In my concept of the seven year period of Daniel's 70th Week, I can see there being some who will be able to flee and survive for a time, or some in remote areas who will be able to evade being found.  No doubt, there will be those who will be able to help others who are fleeing and those who will help the Jews when they flee (e.g., Matt. 24:15-20ff;  Lk. 21:20-24;  and Rev. 12:14-17).  Those who by faith help and minister to others who are fleeing (and especially the Jews) are the sheep of the parable.  Those who care for none but themselves are the goats of the parable.  These would not have even cared for Christ (Matt. 25:44-45).  They, as the "wicked and slothful servant" in the previous parable, will likewise be separated to Hell (Hades) immediately, to be ultimately cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna), as revealed in Revelation 20:11-15 (esp. vss. 13-14).

According to my understanding---and in a nutshell---this is how the parables of Matthew 25 relate to the last days:

#1---The first parable relates to the time of Christ's coming for the Church.

#2---The second parable relates to the time of the Judgment Seat of Christ.

#3---The third parable relates to the time of Christ's Millennial Reign.   

Finally, my understanding of the above is part of A Totally Different Pre-Daniel's 70 Week Rapture Interpretation that I have.  Here is a link to my master thread by this same title (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/253935-a-totally-different-pre-daniels-70th-week-rapture-interpretation/).  In the second post of that thread, I keep a running list of other threads that pertain to my different interpretation.

I always admire those who take the time to make a full (or fuller) argument. Thank you for your contribution. You have surely given us things to think about. After due consideration, I've decide not to go from point to point, but to give my own abbreviated understanding of these three narratives.

The Lord Jesus is answering verse 3 of Chapter 24. It is a threefold question; (i) when shall these things be, (ii) what is the sign of your Coming, and (iii) what is the sign of the end of the age? From the evening of resurrection day, when our Lord breathed the Holy Spirit into His disciples, there were suddenly OUT OF TWO Peoples, a THIRD (Eph.2:15). (i) The Nation of Israel, (ii) The Nations, and (iii) the New Man - commonly called "the Church". And our Lord Jesus, in Matthew, predicts the fate of these three peoples in three distinct divisions. They are;
That which will befall the Jews starting with the Temple in verse 1 and ending with Israel being gathered from the "four winds" in verse 31. Only Israel was scattered and only Israel was scattered and collected from the "four winds" (Jer.49:36, Ezek.37:9)
That which will befall the Church from 24:32 to 25:31. Here, parables are used and the issue is the morality of "servants".
That which will befall those of "ALL Nations" or "Gentiles" who survive the Great Tribulation based on how they treated the Lord's People who passed through the Great Tribulation

Hello AdHoc,

I appreciate your kind response.

In your second paragraph, you make the statement concerning Jesus' Olivet Discourse, "And our Lord Jesus, in Matthew, predicts the fate of these three peoples in three distinct divisions."  When you mentioned "three distinct divisions" I could not help but to think of my thread titled, Rightly Dividing Jesus' Olivet Discourse (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/252817-rightly-dividing-jesus-olivet-discourse/).  Whereas I can easily tell that we are not understanding some things the same, when you see what I have shown concerning Jesus' discourse, it will become apparent to you why your words made me think of it.  Hope you will give it a close look.

On 4/19/2022 at 5:24 PM, AdHoc said:

The Ten Virgins
The parable presents us Virgins who are exactly the same in seven points and different in only one. (i) ALL in their lifetime had Lamps burning. (ii) All had oil in their Lamps. (iii) ALL are Virgins. (iv) ALL "went forth to meet he Groom" in their lifetime. (v) All slept because the Groom tarried. (vi) ALL were awakened at the same time. (vii) All went on a short journey to meet the Groom who seemed to be coming from the opposite direction. It is noteworthy that the Virgins never lost their status. Even the foolish were still called Virgins after their return with the required oil.

The single difference is in their disposition. The "foolish" Virgins are called that because they thought that the oil, NOT IN THEIR LAMPS, but in their VESSELS was FOR FREE. The Lamp of a person is their spirit (Pr.20:27) and oil is a type of the Holy Spirit keeping the Lampstand of the Tabernacle burning night and day. To be awakened at the same time shows that they belong to the same resurrection and this, at the Coming of the Groom. This makes then genuine Christians (1st Cor.15:23) for besides the lamps burning and having oil in their lamps, they all belong to the same resurrection and are judged on the same criteria.

The statement of our Lord and Groom, Jesus, is that He did not "know" them. the word in Greek does not mean intellectual knowledge. It means that he did not recognize them by sight. That is, they, as Fiancé, had not spent time in the Lord's presense so that He would know them by sight. Thus, ALL EVIDENCE point to the fact that the Virgins were ALL Christians, ALL joyfully seeking the Groom and ALL being resurrected together. The lesson of the parable is that an extra portion of the Holy Spirit must be PAID FOR IN THIS LIFE. From the other parables on the Kingdom of Heaven, this PRICE must be (i) denying the soul, and (ii) taking up a cross that puts the flesh to death when it is called for ("daily").

As I considered your reply, my mind went to Jesus' Parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Matt. 13:24-30, 36-43).  As I said in my first post concerning the Parable of the Ten Virgins, whatever may be believed about the minute details of this parable, it cannot be allowed to nullify the main thrust, which Jesus expresses in verse 13.  The main thrust is the importance of being at all times watchful and ready for His coming, especially in consideration of one's not knowing when this might be.  As can be seen, five were prepared and were able to go in with the bridegroom to the marriage, after which "the door was shut" (vs. 10).  Later, the five foolish virgins arrive at the door, but are not allowed to enter.  They were not as prepared as they thought they were---the case with many professing Christians today.*  The bridegroom replies to them, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" (vs. 12).  Then Jesus gives the thrust of His parable:  "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (vs. 13).

*As I was typing this, I also thought of all those who are not professing Christians who, because they are upstanding citizens or "good" people, believe they are going to be alright.  With some, it is almost like they would dare God not to accept them.  Mankind needs to be reminded that the first and great commandment is not to love thy neighbor as thyself.  The first and great commandment has to do with our love for Almighty God.  Jesus' words in His parable, "and the door was shut" (vs. 10), are some of the most poignant in Scripture. 

On 4/19/2022 at 5:24 PM, AdHoc said:

The Talents
In this parable, the same outcome is reached when the designation "servant" is studied. ALL were "servants". ALL were "the Lord's servants". The slothful servant is still called a "servant" after he is found wanting. In verse 24 he owns the Lord Jesus. In verse 26 it is "His Lord" and in verse 30 he is still a "servant" though in torment. The talents are all the same - "the goods of the Lords" and the duty of ALL the servants was to occupy themselves with these "gifts" to the profit of the Lord. They are all judged at the same time. All must be Christians since the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" are given to the "inspired" (1st Cor.12).

In Matthew 25 the issue is to be "faithful" when given a duty in the Church (Kingdom) and in Luke 19 the issue with the "pounds" was to be "diligent" with what you are entrusted with.

In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus spoke these words in Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in Heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.

As I wrote in my opening post, as there are both true and false prophets, there are both good and evil servants, and the last servant of the above parable is in the category of the latter.  He is referred to by his master as being both "wicked and slothful" (vs. 26) and is consigned to be cast "into outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (vs. 30).

On 4/19/2022 at 5:24 PM, AdHoc said:

The "Throne of His Glory" (Sheep and the Goats)
From at least seven scriptures we are taught that some of the Church will pass through the Great Tribulation. 1. In Matthew 24 servants can be "LEFT" to the days like those of Noah. 2. In Luke 21:35-36 one must be "counted WORTHY" to miss the Tribulation spoken of when Christ comes. 3. In Philippians 3 the "Upward Call" is a "PRIZE" to be ATTAINED TO. 4. In Revelation 3:10 Christ keeps certain Overcomers from the hour of trial "BECAUSE" they did something. All these three scriptures IMPLY that not all Christians will miss the Great Tribulation.

5. In Revelation 7 the innumerable company who have washed their garments in Christ's blood and who welcome Him like a King with palm fronds came through the Great Tribulation. 6. In Revelation 12 a company who have the "testimony of Jesus Christ" must flee to a wilderness and be helped by the earth" for 1260 days of Tribulation. 7. In Revelation 13:7 the saints are "overcome" by the Beast, which could only happen if they were on earth. 8. In Revelation 18:4 there are Christians who belong to Commercial Babylon the Great.

Having established that there is much evidence to show that a great company of Christians will pass through the Great Tribulation, which is further supported by the "apostasy" of the seven Churches of Revelation, the question is; "How do they survive without the Mark of the Beast"? We have a hint in Revelation 12:16 - "the earth helped ... ". Since Revelation 20 shows us men beheaded for not taking the Mark of the Beast, we can justifiably assume that not all Gentiles will support the Beast. As in all democracies AND Monarchies, there is a contingent of "dissenters". It seems that they will help the threatened Christians with food and clothing.

Now, the basis for any dealing with a Christian (or Jew for that matter) is a Covenant made with Abraham 430 years before God gave the Law to Moses. In this Covenant, God PROMISES to bless anyone who blessed a seed of Abraham, and to curse anyone who curses a seed of Abraham (Gen.12:3). Those of the ALL Nations who survive the Great Tribulation will be gathered to Christ's Throne when He sets it up on earth after Armageddon, and judged on how they treated Christ's brethren during the Great Tribulation. They are called "the least" of His brethren because they were the slothful "servants" who must pass through the Great Tribulation, but they are still Christ's, and thus "seed of Abraham" (Gal.3:29).

Who would have thought that you could go to the Lake of Fire for a glass of water? See Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41

Concerning your reply as a whole, I hope the following is helpful.  At least maybe we can understand each other a little better.  First of all, it is only because one is born-again into God's family (Jn. 3:3) and has righteousness imputed unto him or her (Rom. 4, esp. vss. 23-25) that one is saved.  Whatever is believed concerning Jesus' words, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, they ye may be accounted worthy to escape..." (Lk. 21:35-36), this must be understood in light of all that Scripture has to say concerning what merits salvation.  When I read such a passage before a congregation, I cannot know for sure who may be genuinely saved and who may not be, but I can know and stress this:  Everyone needs to take serious heed!  Some aren't really watching as they should be (even the genuinely saved) and most are probably not praying as they should be (even the genuinely saved) and few are truly walking the walk of discipleship (even the genuinely saved).  Moreover, all that think they are genuine Christians are not.  And, we are discussing something of ETERNAL consequences.  I believe we will agree on this AdHoc---Those who profess to be Christians need to know that they are what they profess to be, and they need to live in accord with what they profess to be.

Also, according to many evidences in Scripture, the "great tribulation" spoken of in Revelation 7 is either what the Church has so long been through, or, what the Church will have just escaped from.  The "innumerable company" you mentioned from this chapter is the Church, just "gathered together" by the angels at the time of the appearance of "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (Matt. 24:29-31) at the opening of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:12-7:17).

Concerning those you mentioned which we see later that we know are saved (e.g., Rev. 12:11 and 13:7), these would at least include the 144,000 Jews who are saved at the time of the opening of the 6th Seal, who will remain on the earth as witnesses (Rev. 7:1-8).  These are not part of the "great multitude" seen in Heaven in Revelation 7:9-17, but are seen there later, in Revelation 14:1-5.  Further, we know that others will not give allegiance to the beast and will suffer martyrdom.  And, of course, there are those that Jesus speaks of in the Parable of the Sheep and Goats.  As I said of them in my opening post, I can see there being some who will be able to flee and survive for a time, or some in remote areas who will be able to evade being found.  No doubt, there will be those who will be able to help others who are fleeing and those who will help the Jews when they flee (e.g., Matt. 24:15-20ff;  Lk. 21:20-24;  and Rev. 12:14-17).  Those who by faith help and minister to others who are fleeing (and especially the Jews) are the sheep of the parable.  Those who care for none but themselves are the goats of the parable.  These would not have even cared for Christ (Matt. 25:44-45).

Concerning your last sentence, it is understandable how that some might believe that this parable conveys that one's judgment is based upon works or how one treats others.  But, genuine good will towards others springs from something deeper than such works and is merely reflective of what is within one's heart.  And, no one can judge a heart like Jesus Christ.

Again, I hope this is helpful, at least in us being able to understand each other better.

[AdHoc]

On 5/31/2022 at 4:22 AM, not an echo said:

Hello AdHoc,

I appreciate your kind response.

In your second paragraph, you make the statement concerning Jesus' Olivet Discourse, "And our Lord Jesus, in Matthew, predicts the fate of these three peoples in three distinct divisions."  When you mentioned "three distinct divisions" I could not help but to think of my thread titled, Rightly Dividing Jesus' Olivet Discourse (https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/252817-rightly-dividing-jesus-olivet-discourse/).  Whereas I can easily tell that we are not understanding some things the same, when you see what I have shown concerning Jesus' discourse, it will become apparent to you why your words made me think of it.  Hope you will give it a close look.

As I considered your reply, my mind went to Jesus' Parable of the Wheat and the Tares (Matt. 13:24-30, 36-43).  As I said in my first post concerning the Parable of the Ten Virgins, whatever may be believed about the minute details of this parable, it cannot be allowed to nullify the main thrust, which Jesus expresses in verse 13.  The main thrust is the importance of being at all times watchful and ready for His coming, especially in consideration of one's not knowing when this might be.  As can be seen, five were prepared and were able to go in with the bridegroom to the marriage, after which "the door was shut" (vs. 10).  Later, the five foolish virgins arrive at the door, but are not allowed to enter.  They were not as prepared as they thought they were---the case with many professing Christians today.*  The bridegroom replies to them, "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" (vs. 12).  Then Jesus gives the thrust of His parable:  "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh" (vs. 13).

*As I was typing this, I also thought of all those who are not professing Christians who, because they are upstanding citizens or "good" people, believe they are going to be alright.  With some, it is almost like they would dare God not to accept them.  Mankind needs to be reminded that the first and great commandment is not to love thy neighbor as thyself.  The first and great commandment has to do with our love for Almighty God.  Jesus' words in His parable, "and the door was shut" (vs. 10), are some of the most poignant in Scripture. 

In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus spoke these words in Matthew 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in Heaven.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.

As I wrote in my opening post, as there are both true and false prophets, there are both good and evil servants, and the last servant of the above parable is in the category of the latter.  He is referred to by his master as being both "wicked and slothful" (vs. 26) and is consigned to be cast "into outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (vs. 30).

Concerning your reply as a whole, I hope the following is helpful.  At least maybe we can understand each other a little better.  First of all, it is only because one is born-again into God's family (Jn. 3:3) and has righteousness imputed unto him or her (Rom. 4, esp. vss. 23-25) that one is saved.  Whatever is believed concerning Jesus' words, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, they ye may be accounted worthy to escape..." (Lk. 21:35-36), this must be understood in light of all that Scripture has to say concerning what merits salvation.  When I read such a passage before a congregation, I cannot know for sure who may be genuinely saved and who may not be, but I can know and stress this:  Everyone needs to take serious heed!  Some aren't really watching as they should be (even the genuinely saved) and most are probably not praying as they should be (even the genuinely saved) and few are truly walking the walk of discipleship (even the genuinely saved).  Moreover, all that think they are genuine Christians are not.  And, we are discussing something of ETERNAL consequences.  I believe we will agree on this AdHoc---Those who profess to be Christians need to know that they are what they profess to be, and they need to live in accord with what they profess to be.

Also, according to many evidences in Scripture, the "great tribulation" spoken of in Revelation 7 is either what the Church has so long been through, or, what the Church will have just escaped from.  The "innumerable company" you mentioned from this chapter is the Church, just "gathered together" by the angels at the time of the appearance of "the sign of the Son of man in heaven" (Matt. 24:29-31) at the opening of the 6th Seal (Rev. 6:12-7:17).

Concerning those you mentioned which we see later that we know are saved (e.g., Rev. 12:11 and 13:7), these would at least include the 144,000 Jews who are saved at the time of the opening of the 6th Seal, who will remain on the earth as witnesses (Rev. 7:1-8).  These are not part of the "great multitude" seen in Heaven in Revelation 7:9-17, but are seen there later, in Revelation 14:1-5.  Further, we know that others will not give allegiance to the beast and will suffer martyrdom.  And, of course, there are those that Jesus speaks of in the Parable of the Sheep and Goats.  As I said of them in my opening post, I can see there being some who will be able to flee and survive for a time, or some in remote areas who will be able to evade being found.  No doubt, there will be those who will be able to help others who are fleeing and those who will help the Jews when they flee (e.g., Matt. 24:15-20ff;  Lk. 21:20-24;  and Rev. 12:14-17).  Those who by faith help and minister to others who are fleeing (and especially the Jews) are the sheep of the parable.  Those who care for none but themselves are the goats of the parable.  These would not have even cared for Christ (Matt. 25:44-45).

Concerning your last sentence, it is understandable how that some might believe that this parable conveys that one's judgment is based upon works or how one treats others.  But, genuine good will towards others springs from something deeper than such works and is merely reflective of what is within one's heart.  And, no one can judge a heart like Jesus Christ.

Again, I hope this is helpful, at least in us being able to understand each other better.

Thank you for your answers and insights. In all my years of studying the Bible, I have never come across two students who agree on everything. I guess it would be nice, for this was the goal in Ephesians Chapter 4 - "the unity of the faith". But there is also good in disagreement, for it drives us back to God's Words. And, as in any school there are various ages and various states of knowledge. The new Christian cannot be expected to be well verses in scripture. But intellectually he is going to to hold something. And that something will be influenced by a number of things. So, although believing the same thing is to be desired and worked at, it should always be taken int account that there will be many differences in thought.

In Matthew 13 our Lord told His disciples that the parables concerned the "mysteries of the Kingdom". But in Matthew 24 and 25 the parables concern the timing and signs of the second coming of Jesus. So it is difficult for me to compare the Ten Virgins with the Wheat and the Tares. The Tares are gathered and burned, but the foolish Virgins go and buy the needed oil and return. They are still called Virgins by the Holy Spirit, and they have the oil. This is very different from a tare which produces a poisonous fruit at the end. It is true that in both parables TWO are compared, but I see quite a difference between Virgin and Virgin, and Wheat and Tares.

But I fully agree with you in the sadness of Christ's words. Whether or not we agree, our Lord died for all mankind and mankind was made in the likeness and image of Christ to be a Bride for Him. Every man or woman who never makes it into the Wedding Feast is a terrible loss for our Lord Jesus.

I appreciate your view of the 144,000 of Revelation 7. Perhaps I am too persnickety, but "sealed" to me is not "saved". In Revelation 9:4 we see the reason for the seal - not for salvation from the Lake of Fire, but from the deadly disasters of the Great Tribulation. This again is very different from those of Revelation 14 for this group of 144,000 is not protected from deadly disasters, but are removed completely. The are "redeemed from the earth". Also, they stand before the throne that has the 24 elders and 4 living creatures - all things of heaven as Chapter 4 shows. However, I am aware that many hold the same view as you and they have good arguments.

Where we are definitely very close is Matthew 7:21-23. There we have men who knew Jesus during their lifetime. The knew Jesus at the judgment seat. they do works in His name during their lifetime and they call "Lord Lord" at the judgment seat. The Lord does not deny their works. His accusation is that what they did was not evil, but that they had dome them without orders. Take Paul for instance. In Acts 16:18 it says that the demon-possessed girl vexed then "for many days". Then only did Paul cast the demon out. This begs the question; If Paul had the power to cast out the demon, why did he not do it the first day?And if Paul had power to cast out demons, why did he let one disrupt the gospel for many days? This is serious because the gospel was being hindered and Paul did nothing. But we know that Paul was zealous and suffered much for the gospel. He would not have tolerated a hindrance  UNLESS, as a faithful soldier, he was WAITING for orders from his General. He only cast out the demon when it was the "will of his father in heaven".

Again we see this same thing in Acts 16:6-8. Paul, like each of us disciples, has the grand commission to preach the gospel to "the uttermost parts of the earth". But the Holy Spirit forbade them to go where they planned. What shall Paul do in this case? Why! That is easy. He must "do the will of his Father in heaven". The Father is General of the soldiers of the gospel. Today he wants you in your town in Kentucky to visit the sick. But tomorrow He wants you in the next village to witness to inmates of the local jail. If you reverse the orders of the General, can you expect praise and reward? No! You might have preached the gospel, bit you did it without obeying the General. 

And so in all areas of the Church, you have the many who do glitzy things by the power of God, and you have the few who OBEY. Both are born again Christians. Both are saved from the Lake of Fire. Both are children of God. Both do good works. BUT ONLY ONE DID THE WILL OF THE FATHER IN HEAVEN.