What about those who have never heard of Jesus Christ?

[Jayne]

Christians have asked this for decades [or longer].  I've asked it myself.  I've studied it.  There IS an answer, and it is not universalism.

Yes, God is compassionate, and the Bible says that it is his will that NONE should perish.  2 Peter 3:9. God IS love. 1 John 4:7-8. And yet God has a wrath that MUST be satisfied and was ONLY satisfied in Christ Jesus. John 3:36.  It's his will that none should perish, yet people are going to perish nonetheless.  Why?  Because, without Christ, no one comes to the Father.  John 14:6.

So, what about those who haven't got a Bible or haven't heard a pastor or missionary?  I'll tell you this - you and I are not God and folks THINK they can deal with this issue - but it always seems to be based on emotions and opinions.  We think that people are born Hindus and Muslims and who are atheists are automatically doomed.  I've heard that said. That's not true.  No truer than the lie that Americans have “leg up”.  There are Americans, even Americans who sit on church pews on Sundays and put money in the offering plate, who are doomed.  They do not know Christ. Church attendance and church traditions do not save anyone.

So let me bring you some FACTS that will bring relief.  Facts from the Bible and facts from today.

We know that the Bible says that the scriptures, preaching, and teaching is VITAL!  But we also know that God can and will save people who do not have those things.  How does that happen?  In ALL SORTS of ways that we know nothing about!  Here are some examples.

• Rahab, in the Old Testament, was a prostitute.  She and her people of Jericho didn’t have Old Testament scriptures, didn’t have a pastor, missionary, or anything of God.  All they had was a RUMOR, a RUMOR of a distant “god” that was working for his people.  ALL of the people of her town, Jericho, believed this was true.  She was the ONLY one who decided, before the Jews even came to her town, to put her faith and trust in God.  The rest of the people made a decision also! They also believe that God was real!  People many times ignore that in this story.  They rejected God and hid from God. So says the Bible. Just like Adam and Eve. But Rahab submitted to God in faith.  She became King David’s great-great-grandmother.

 

• The people of Nineveh in the Old Testament were horrible people.  In other books of the Bible than Jonah, we know that they would skin their enemies alive.  They would put fish hooks in the mouths of their enemies and line them up, tying the fish hooks together, and march them back to their Nineveh.  Now what do you think happened when just ONE person fell down?  These people did not know God – they had their own gods.  Yet, when Jonah, the prophet who didn’t even want to be there, came by and said ONE thing.  “Forty days and you are going DOWN!”  All it took was that ONE thing and they repented from the king down to the lowest servant.  The king, ignorant of how things worked, told the people to put sack cloth and ashes [signs of repentance] even on the animals.  That’s how sincere he was.  They had no Bible, no preacher, no missionary.

 

• In the New Testament, the Philippian jailer ONLY saw a huge earthquake and prisoners who could have escaped, but didn’t.  He knew only God could have been involved in this and sought how to be saved and was saved.

 

• In the 1950’s, a missionary was in Japan. He spoke Japanese. He was witnessing to people who had lost all hope after WWII.  Like Corrie Ten Boom did in Germany. He carried a cross with him so that he could explain the suffering of Christ for our sins.  He was moved to travel to the jungles and look for people who had no contact with the world.  He came upon a man who did not know the war was over and was hiding – all alone – for years.  The missionary witnessed to him about Jesus Christ.  The jungle man told him, “Oh, THAT’s his name!” God had already been dealing with this man.  How?  I don't know.

 

• In Muslim countries – right now! – God is leading people who do not know ANYTHING about him – never having even heard the name “Jesus” – to salvation.  I could tell you story after story.  I’ll just tell you one.  God is sending dreams and visions to these people, dreams of a man called “Jesus”.  They are seeking out who he is.  This is the truth.  I’ve read about this happening in several places and other wonderful, miraculous things.  It's incredible what God is doing.  OK, here's another from a Muslim country.  A missionary was walking around looking for safe place and seemingly safe people to witness to.  In that same town a family was a boating on one those two story party boats.  Their little girl fell off the top into the water.  They could not find her.  Some jumped into the water looking for her.  Finally they found her ON the boat.  She was bone dry!  They asked what happened.  She said there was a man walking on the water who saved her.  Later that day, the missionary and this family met.  The missionary, who had been hard pressed in how to introduce Christ to anyone,  asked them, "Could I tell you about the man who walked on water?"  Now tell me that is not God in action,

 

• One last proof.  In Romania, where people are taught from childhood in their schools that God is not real and Christianity is not real, there was a man.  He lived in a house with a flat roof as did everyone else.  Storks were notorious for building nests on top of the houses and it was stinky.  But people left them there as they believed it was “good luck”.  One day, he had enough of the stink.  He went to his roof and began to tear the nest apart.  Neighbors begged him to leave it there as he would "lose his luck".  Birds of all sizes and sort make their nests of whatever is handy.  He found a small piece of paper that was a half sheet from a page of the Bible – a half sheet from the book of Romans.  He read it.  He believed it.  He shouted, “they taught me that you didn’t exist – that you weren’t REAL!  I see that you are!”  He was saved.

 

People who HAVE Bibles, pastors, Bible teachers, and missionaries need to HEED them.  People who do not have these things need to HEED God when he speaks to them in WHATEVER WAY he chooses to lead them and teach them.  Once God speaks, in whatever way he deems fit - you are responsible for it.

I don’t have all the answers.  But God does.  We need to trust him on this.

AND we need to evangelize!  We need to tell people about Christ, send missionaries, and most of all PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for people who have never heard.

I trust God to bring knowledge of him in whatever way he chooses.

But just like those people in Jericho, once they KNOW – even just an inkling – they are responsible for receiving the truth.

There is no universalism.  God brings to us his truth about Christ how and when he chooses.  Let’s trust him and obey him.

God can and IS doing miraculous things across the world.  Things we would never think of because we are not God.

I trust him for this.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Jayne

[JohnD]

Factor in the omniscience and omnipotence of the God who is love (the Great Orchestrator of time and eternity).

Great is the way of destruction and many there are on it. Narrow is the way of life and few there are that find it.

Can we really believe that people who would have actually believed in Christ Jesus never had the opportunity?

Or is God capable of seeding believers in the ground of history where they will be given every opportunity to

believe?

If we pose such question as the OP to God, be prepared to get his response: so what are YOU doing about spreading

my Gospel?! 

 

[JohnD]

Since abortion is a hot topic these days... a thing I am suspicious about the timing of (given the antics of the last election cycle)...

I would also apply God's omniscience to the victims of abortion. Not that all innocent babies go to heaven (for abortion would be

preferable in that case rather than risking eternal hell just for being allowed to life and grow up). But that in the omniscience of God is the all knowing of

not only past, present, or future... but all the possibilities (given man's ability to make choices).

I would say to a grieving mother who was duped into an abortion that their baby has just as much chance to be saved if they had lived and grown up.

It's about God and his ability focused on Jesus and his sacrifice and whether we believe it or not. 

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Jayne]

9 minutes ago, JohnD said:

If we pose such question as the OP to God, be prepared to get his response: so what are YOU doing about spreading

my Gospel?! 

That's exactly what I said.  I said, "AND we need to evangelize!  We need to tell people about Christ, send missionaries, and most of all PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for people who have never heard."

[Jayne]

4 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I would also apply God's omniscience to the victims of abortion. Not that all innocent babies go to heaven (for abortion would be preferable in that case rather than risking eternal hell just for being allowed to life and grow up).

It's about God and his ability focused on Jesus and his sacrifice and whether we believe it or not. 

I understand that there are lots of people who believe as you - that "not all innocent babies go to heaven".  You believe then that abortion would be preferable to "taking a risk" of growing up.  I've heard this for the most part [99%] from Calvinists. 

I am not one of those persons who agrees with you.  I believe that you cannot be saved unless you understand the concept of your personal sin and how much it is an abomination to God.  And that understanding is the Holy Spirit's job.

A newborn baby does not understand that.  Cannot understand that.

 

 

[The_Patriot21]

If God will save those who dont know about Him then you are damning them to hell if you tell them about Him and they choose no. Good reason to go out and witness, no?

Or we can accept scripture...you know the parts you dont want to look at, like romans 3:23 where it says for ALL have sinned and fallen short....and continue on to 6:23 where it says for the wages of sin is DEATH. 

Once we accept that ALL are doomed for hell UNLESS they come to Christ, only then do we have a reason to go forth and witness.

[Hobie_]

On 5/24/2022 at 1:25 PM, Jayne said:

Christians have asked this for decades [or longer].  I've asked it myself.  I've studied it.  There IS an answer, and it is not universalism.

Yes, God is compassionate, and the Bible says that it is his will that NONE should perish.  2 Peter 3:9. God IS love. 1 John 4:7-8. And yet God has a wrath that MUST be satisfied and was ONLY satisfied in Christ Jesus. John 3:36.  It's his will that none should perish, yet people are going to perish nonetheless.  Why?  Because, without Christ, no one comes to the Father.  John 14:6.

So, what about those who haven't got a Bible or haven't heard a pastor or missionary?  I'll tell you this - you and I are not God and folks THINK they can deal with this issue - but it always seems to be based on emotions and opinions.  We think that people are born Hindus and Muslims and who are atheists are automatically doomed.  I've heard that said. That's not true.  No truer than the lie that Americans have “leg up”.  There are Americans, even Americans who sit on church pews on Sundays and put money in the offering plate, who are doomed.  They do not know Christ. Church attendance and church traditions do not save anyone.

So let me bring you some FACTS that will bring relief.  Facts from the Bible and facts from today.

We know that the Bible says that the scriptures, preaching, and teaching is VITAL!  But we also know that God can and will save people who do not have those things.  How does that happen?  In ALL SORTS of ways that we know nothing about!  Here are some examples.

• Rahab, in the Old Testament, was a prostitute.  She and her people of Jericho didn’t have Old Testament scriptures, didn’t have a pastor, missionary, or anything of God.  All they had was a RUMOR, a RUMOR of a distant “god” that was working for his people.  ALL of the people of her town, Jericho, believed this was true.  She was the ONLY one who decided, before the Jews even came to her town, to put her faith and trust in God.  The rest of the people made a decision also! They also believe that God was real!  People many times ignore that in this story.  They rejected God and hid from God. So says the Bible. Just like Adam and Eve. But Rahab submitted to God in faith.  She became King David’s great-great-grandmother.

 

• The people of Nineveh in the Old Testament were horrible people.  In other books of the Bible than Jonah, we know that they would skin their enemies alive.  They would put fish hooks in the mouths of their enemies and line them up, tying the fish hooks together, and march them back to their Nineveh.  Now what do you think happened when just ONE person fell down?  These people did not know God – they had their own gods.  Yet, when Jonah, the prophet who didn’t even want to be there, came by and said ONE thing.  “Forty days and you are going DOWN!”  All it took was that ONE thing and they repented from the king down to the lowest servant.  The king, ignorant of how things worked, told the people to put sack cloth and ashes [signs of repentance] even on the animals.  That’s how sincere he was.  They had no Bible, no preacher, no missionary.

 

• In the New Testament, the Philippian jailer ONLY saw a huge earthquake and prisoners who could have escaped, but didn’t.  He knew only God could have been involved in this and sought how to be saved and was saved.

 

• In the 1950’s, a missionary was in Japan. He spoke Japanese. He was witnessing to people who had lost all hope after WWII.  Like Corrie Ten Boom did in Germany. He carried a cross with him so that he could explain the suffering of Christ for our sins.  He was moved to travel to the jungles and look for people who had no contact with the world.  He came upon a man who did not know the war was over and was hiding – all alone – for years.  The missionary witnessed to him about Jesus Christ.  The jungle man told him, “Oh, THAT’s his name!” God had already been dealing with this man.  How?  I don't know.

 

• In Muslim countries – right now! – God is leading people who do not know ANYTHING about him – never having even heard the name “Jesus” – to salvation.  I could tell you story after story.  I’ll just tell you one.  God is sending dreams and visions to these people, dreams of a man called “Jesus”.  They are seeking out who he is.  This is the truth.  I’ve read about this happening in several places and other wonderful, miraculous things.  It's incredible what God is doing.  OK, here's another from a Muslim country.  A missionary was walking around looking for safe place and seemingly safe people to witness to.  In that same town a family was a boating on one those two story party boats.  Their little girl fell off the top into the water.  They could not find her.  Some jumped into the water looking for her.  Finally they found her ON the boat.  She was bone dry!  They asked what happened.  She said there was a man walking on the water who saved her.  Later that day, the missionary and this family met.  The missionary, who had been hard pressed in how to introduce Christ to anyone,  asked them, "Could I tell you about the man who walked on water?"  Now tell me that is not God in action,

 

• One last proof.  In Romania, where people are taught from childhood in their schools that God is not real and Christianity is not real, there was a man.  He lived in a house with a flat roof as did everyone else.  Storks were notorious for building nests on top of the houses and it was stinky.  But people left them there as they believed it was “good luck”.  One day, he had enough of the stink.  He went to his roof and began to tear the nest apart.  Neighbors begged him to leave it there as he would "lose his luck".  Birds of all sizes and sort make their nests of whatever is handy.  He found a small piece of paper that was a half sheet from a page of the Bible – a half sheet from the book of Romans.  He read it.  He believed it.  He shouted, “they taught me that you didn’t exist – that you weren’t REAL!  I see that you are!”  He was saved.

 

People who HAVE Bibles, pastors, Bible teachers, and missionaries need to HEED them.  People who do not have these things need to HEED God when he speaks to them in WHATEVER WAY he chooses to lead them and teach them.  Once God speaks, in whatever way he deems fit - you are responsible for it.

I don’t have all the answers.  But God does.  We need to trust him on this.

AND we need to evangelize!  We need to tell people about Christ, send missionaries, and most of all PRAY, PRAY, PRAY for people who have never heard.

I trust God to bring knowledge of him in whatever way he chooses.

But just like those people in Jericho, once they KNOW – even just an inkling – they are responsible for receiving the truth.

There is no universalism.  God brings to us his truth about Christ how and when he chooses.  Let’s trust him and obey him.

God can and IS doing miraculous things across the world.  Things we would never think of because we are not God.

I trust him for this.

 

You are forgetting that before there was a written word, God was there, and He communicated with the people on earth and interacted with them. So God will provide what is needed in His mercy and grace to those who are without in one form or another..

[Mike Mclees]

God alone determines a person's soul, but if one is of knowledge he must repent. To many determine their own interpretations.