I will spew thee out of my mouth......

[Fiosh]

quote from Dad Ernie:

"The Kingdom of God will have received its "fulness" of gentiles and then the only ones whose ears shall be opened to "hear the gospel" will be the Jews..."

Can you explain what you mean by this?

[jmwhalen]

While "Be hot for God, or He will spew you out of His mouth! Lukewarm

Christians who are weak of faith or who straddle the fence will be

destroyed" may be a correct spiritual application(Romans

15:8)/interpretation of this passage, it "bothered" me why the Lord

Jesus Christ references being "cold"-sounds like He is saying cold

could be a good thing.

Perhaps a little historical backround will shed some light? The city

of Laodicea had 2 springs of water:one cold and one hot. Both were

vital to the survival of the city. The hot spring was a source of

healing and relaxation. Like most hot springs(I lived near Hot

Springs, AR for a while!), it smelled of sulfur, and the water was

undrinkable. Therefore, the cold water was absolutely necessary as a

source of drinking water. Thus, both springs were vital for the

day-to-day work of the city.

If the hot spring water mixed with the cold water spring water, the

water became lukewarm, and thus totally useless. The water is

undrinkable because of the sulfur, and the water lacking its high

temperature looses its healing qualities. It was thus useless, and

anyone attempting to drink this water would have to spit it out

immediately.

So, spiritual applications:

-believers must be useful-we are to be "life-giving" like water and

comforting like hot water

Lukewarm? Doesn't verse 17 explain this?

"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have

need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and

miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked...."

Isn't the Lord Jesus Christ saying that being lukewarm is not being

wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked, but rather, it is thinking

in one's heart "I am rich and prosperous and need nothing"?

Are we not talking about spirituality? It is when we"feel" we are

righteous, good, and in the state of not sinning, this is when we

actually the most wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked. If we

never recognize this state, we are never able to ask the Lord Jesus

Christ for what He offers.

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest

be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the

shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with

eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev. 3:18

If we think we have it ourselves we cannot or will not ask it from the

LORD.

"Amen" of Rev. 3:14 is a Hebrew word expressive of life and unchanging

faithfulness. It is one of the titles of the Messiah. It expresses

what is immediately added:"...faithful and true...." The Lord Jesus

Christ is not only the Way, He is also the Amen, i.e., the Truth. Thus

He so often says "Amen, Amen, I say unto you...."As the faithful and

true witness He judges evil and exposes the true condition of the

soul, and as the Amen He is unchangeably faithful to those who respond

to His "knock" for fellowship(context is fellowship, not salvation) and open the door to Him(3:20). He is the author of Creation, and He is also the author of regeneration-able to save and re-create any of the "wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked" that hear His voice. For their poverty He has gold,

for their blindness eye salve, for their nakedness white raiment.

How do we ask for it from the LORD? 3:19-"Change your mind"(meaning of

the word 'repent')- Recognize that you are wretched, miserable, poor,

blind, and naked-it is toward these that LORD will bestow grace. This

is what grace is all about. These are the people who are relying on

the LORD to be hot or cold, so that they may be life-giving or

healing/comforting.

Frequently this passage is used by some to manipulate believers with

guilt and fear. Ironically, those who do this are actually the

lukewarm, having become useless, neither giving life or comfort.

In Christ,

John Whalen

[NITE OWL]

You know.....there's really no point in going on with this debate. You guys are firm in your beliefs, as am I.

The original question was answered...twice. She now has two options.

If you insist that I answer your questions, I will. But I really don't see the point.

[Guest shiloh357]

Why don't you cut paste for us where someone said that gaining such knowledge was necessary for salvation?

This isn't a cut and paste , but I would assume that if the Lord would vomit you out of His mouth, that would lead me to believe that your salvation is in jeopardy.

Isn't it better to consider more, "What did you learn?" more than"What does it mean?"? God knows the true state of a man's heart, so He's saying make sure your heart is right. I see nothing wrong with Night Owls interpretation.

Isn't it better to have never to have heard the word than to have heard the word and rejecting it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was responding to this remark by you:

By your way of thinking, only scholorly people would be worthy of salvation.

It was an accusation against us, that was completely untrue, and no one implied in any shape or fashion that scholarly people are more deserving of salvation. Nor do we have any "way of thinking" that would lead to such a conclusion.

[apothanein kerdos]

Shiloh, you quickly forget that in modern Christianity anyone that shows an ounce of intellect is automatically arogant and an elitists...intelligence is a no no, a "naughty thing", in modern Christianity.

[Gerioke]

Shiloh, you quickly forget that in modern Christianity anyone that shows an ounce of intellect is automatically arogant and an elitists...intelligence is a no no, a "naughty thing", in modern Christianity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And is sarcasm a virtue in your superior opinion?

If you showed a little wisdom with the intelligence then maybe you wouldn't appear so arrogant.

[apothanein kerdos]

Shiloh, you quickly forget that in modern Christianity anyone that shows an ounce of intellect is automatically arogant and an elitists...intelligence is a no no, a "naughty thing", in modern Christianity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And is sarcasm a virtue in your superior opinion?

If you showed a little wisdom with the intelligence then maybe you wouldn't appear so arrogant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Elijah and Christ were sarcastic. So why is it wrong?

I'm simply saying that people like you, and the vast majority of Christians, despise intelligence and intelligent learning. It is unfortunate but true. If it's logical and educated, then apparently it doesn't belong in Christianity.

[RGR]

Shiloh, you quickly forget that in modern Christianity anyone that shows an ounce of intellect is automatically arogant and an elitists...intelligence is a no no, a "naughty thing", in modern Christianity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And is sarcasm a virtue in your superior opinion?

If you showed a little wisdom with the intelligence then maybe you wouldn't appear so arrogant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He wasn't sarcastic and he wasn't trying to be "superior." You on the other hand are being sarcastic.

[nebula]

What if someone runs along something like "that dog won't hunt."  Or, "He looked at me like a dog with a new pan." 

I think I know what the first one means . . . but what do you mean by ". . . a dog with a new pan"?

[nebula]

You know.....there's really no point in going on with this debate. You guys are firm in your beliefs, as am I.

Well, I would like one question answered -

If you lived in Laodicea when this word was given - how would you have interpreted the message? And why?

******************************************************

EDIT: I just thought of something . . .

It is possible to be "on fire" and yet still be inneffective, worth being spewed. How?

1 Cor. 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

As far as "backslidden" - that sounds more this:

Rev. 3

1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." '

Oh - and if Jesus was speaking to them apart from their culture, what about the imagry of their garments and the eye salve? (In the link I gave, it mentioned the significance of these to that city as well.)

Edited September 19, 2005 by nebula